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      07-04-2008, 04:37 PM   #1
sayemthree
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square 18" track set up - ready to go.

TRMotorsports wheels - 18x9 et35 requires 5mm spacers front and rear. they are REALLY light! 42.5 # for each tire and wheel. thats 26# lighter total than the stock 19's with PS2!!!!!! 30#'s lighter than four e46 M3 rear 18's with Dunlop SSR's. I cant beleive I can haul these tire/wheels around easily in one hand. Gary owes my two more spacers as I only got two.

tires are BFG G-force R1 265/35/18. I really wanted a square set up and am willing to live with the spacers for the more nuetral handling, better braking (with 265 up front) and being able to rotate front to rear. the BFG also can be remounted on the rim should you get wear on the outside shoulder to make them last longer as the are symetrical and not directional

I normally mount by track tires in my garage and drive on them back and forth to the track - as far away as Sears point (6 hours one way ) with no problems. The wheels look very very high quality esp compared to the tire rack pics.










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      07-04-2008, 05:03 PM   #2
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NICE SETUP!!
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      07-04-2008, 05:27 PM   #3
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sweet setup for sure
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      07-04-2008, 06:11 PM   #4
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Looks good. Keep us updated on how this setup performs on the track.
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      07-04-2008, 07:24 PM   #5
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Looks good. Keep us updated on how this setup performs on the track.

will do - Buttonwillow in 2 weeks!!!
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      07-04-2008, 10:18 PM   #6
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very very nice...i'm highly considering this. Was even thinking about getting the rack cage for my Thule rack, and just hauling the tires to the track.

You should come up during August. I'm doing Sears(Infineon) on Aug 7th with Track Masters, and then Thunderhill on the 9th & 10th with BMW CCA. Still on waitlist for Sears in July

If so, let me know and you should sign up....spots are almost gone!
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      07-05-2008, 01:27 AM   #7
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very very nice...i'm highly considering this. Was even thinking about getting the rack cage for my Thule rack, and just hauling the tires to the track.

You should come up during August. I'm doing Sears(Infineon) on Aug 7th with Track Masters, and then Thunderhill on the 9th & 10th with BMW CCA. Still on waitlist for Sears in July

If so, let me know and you should sign up....spots are almost gone!
cool - my schedule is Buttonwillow July 19. Cal SPeedway in Sept and Sears point in Nov. I run pretty much exclusivly with BMW CCA. thunderhill is a very long drive for me - and havent ever done that one.
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      07-05-2008, 01:38 AM   #8
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cool - my schedule is Buttonwillow July 19. Cal SPeedway in Sept and Sears point in Nov. I run pretty much exclusivly with BMW CCA. thunderhill is a very long drive for me - and havent ever done that one.
Ya, Thunderhill is even far for me; but it is a very fast and fun track(not technical though like Sears)..it's getting resurfaced this month. I've only attended BMW CCA as well; until my buddy finally talked me into Track Masters Racing last month at Laguna. TMR was professional, people were respectful, driving was safe....I will definitely being doing both BMW CCA and TMR going forward. Advantage to BMW CCA, it's obviously geared for BMW's and the instructors are top notch. TMR has less restrictions and you can put what you learned at the BMW CCA events to test; as instructors are not required for intermediate drivers.

What has me set on TMR more than BMW CCA right now, is that Infineon(Sears) is my home course, and TMR has events there in July, Aug, Sept, & October. BMW CCA only has November through my local chapter( Golden Gate Chapter); which is what you'll be attending.

Best of luck with those tires!
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      07-05-2008, 02:12 AM   #9
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awesome!
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      07-05-2008, 02:39 PM   #10
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Great purchase! Will they fit on the front without the spacer? Can you measure the distance between the strut tube and the tire/wheel where it would come in contact please? Also could you hold up a straight edge to the fender lip on the front and measure in to the point of contact on the tire/wheel please?

I guess these 18's clear the front caliper easily. Do they without the spacer? I agree with your choice of 18x9.0. Do you feel the 265's are a little to big for a 9.0" rim? Did you ever put the rear wheel/tire combo on the front and see how much clearance there was as listed above with the 9.5 ET23?

Good luck and thanks for being the first one to post a square set up for the track.
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      07-05-2008, 02:59 PM   #11
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Great purchase! Will they fit on the front without the spacer? Can you measure the distance between the strut tube and the tire/wheel where it would come in contact please? Also could you hold up a straight edge to the fender lip on the front and measure in to the point of contact on the tire/wheel please?

I guess these 18's clear the front caliper easily. Do they without the spacer? I agree with your choice of 18x9.0. Do you feel the 265's are a little to big for a 9.0" rim? Did you ever put the rear wheel/tire combo on the front and see how much clearance there was as listed above with the 9.5 ET23?

Good luck and thanks for being the first one to post a square set up for the track.
wow - so many questions. yes the fronts clear everything without the spacer. but its no more than 8-10 mm between the tire and strut. I want to call tire rack on that seems awfully close. with the spacer the 18x9 et 35 does stick out a bit - but not beyond the fender. also the rear oem 19 does fit up front and clear but it even sticks out a bit more. being that I have 265/35/18 tires the diameter is also less than stock - whcih helps clearance - and should also help a bit in accelration.
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      07-05-2008, 06:50 PM   #12
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You only need a few mm of clearance to the strut tube. Most of the tire deflection occurs at the bottom contact patch. 8-10mm is plenty.

Have you considered a 10mm spacer rather than the 5mm? This would still place the 9.0" wheel not as far out as the stock ET23 9.5" wheel. The 9.0" wheel with the 5mm spacer will effectively become a ET30. This would put the larger 9.0" wheel 7mm closer to the strut tube and place it 5mm more to the outside fender lip. This is a good fitment and keeps the centerline of the wheel at approximately the same place on the front. Using a 10mm spacer will give the wheel an effective offset of ET25. This would place the wheel 2mm closer to the strut and 10mm closer to the fender lip. In comparison, the stock 9.5" ET23 wheel on the front would be 6mm closer to the strut, but 18mm closer to the fender lip, or a little over 3/4". At stock ride height, this may be OK. It would be interesting to see if the stock 9.5" rear wheel/tire rubs under agressive manuvers.

The reason I ask about the 265's on a 9.0" wheel is that a 255 R compound will be wider than most street tires, and the 255 is a better match for a 9.0" wheel. That said, I think the 265 on the 9.0 is definately doable and not a mistake, just another alternative.

The only thing that has not been discussed is if the rolling circumference being equal rather than a variance of over 1/2". Stock front is 25.7" and stock rear is 26.3", or a difference of .6" with the rear rolling slower and the front rolling faster. The computer was probably calibrated for this difference in rolling circumference. What will happen when the split is taken away??
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      07-05-2008, 11:02 PM   #13
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Here is another option that will work with a 10mm spacer effectively giving the 9.0" wheel an offset of ET31.


LTW5 Lightweight Alloy Race Wheel - 17 & 18 inch (3 Series)
Looking for a super strong, ultra-lightweight wheel in a 17 or 18 inch size for your 3 series? Look no further! These are the perfect track or street wheel for fitting wide rubber under your car. At just over 16 LBS each on 17" and 18 lbs for 18", you'll have a hard time finding a better performance wheel for the money. 41mm offset, flow-formed for superior strength, and fully tested for impact and crack resistance. Available in 4 sizes, and FOUR finishes; silver, anthracite, gloss black with machined lip, and flat black (new!). BMW roundel center caps are also available.

Recommended tire sizes:
17 x 8.5" (16.0 lbs) - 235/40 - 245/40/17
17 x 9.0" (16.6 lbs) - 245/40 - 255/40/17
18 x 9.0" (18.0 lbs) - 245/35 - 255/35
18 x 10" (19.0 lbs) - 285/35 ** rear fitments only **

Part #: LTW5-WHEEL
Price: $249.95
Options: Choose wheel finish SilverAnthraciteGloss Black w/ Polished LipFlat Black (17x8.5 only)


Also TCKline has Volk custom make their TE37 in a 9.0" ET40. With a 10mm spacer you have an effective ET30 offset.
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      07-06-2008, 02:13 AM   #14
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a 10 mm spacer in the front would be too much. 10 mm spacer in the rear would be ok. I have had cars with a few mm clear to the strut and you can see where the tire rubs the dust off the strut under hard cornering. If I may try no spacers in the front and the 5 mm in the rear. before buyin I called Turner, and TC Kline for options. I thin the LTW wheels were on back order.

I doubt the 17's will fit the e92 M3.
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      07-06-2008, 11:24 AM   #15
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17's will not clear the front calipers as did try the 17's from my wifes E93 winter setup.The rolling radius difference of 265/35 -18's all the way round will not be a problem as BMW recomends 245/40=18's all round as the winter setup,so that is a non issue.
I also tried my rear track setup 265/35-18 Toyo R888 on a 9.5-18 30P on the front with no clearance issues.I am now thinking I could have run a 265 on a 9.5 up front with maybe a 275 on a 9.5 or 10 on the rear.My only reservation about this setup would it with stock camber settings,be too much tire on the front to help it very much grip wise.I also feel that a square setup would be a very loose setup as mine on the 255/265 setup was on the oversteer side of neutral once turned in,but it was fast.
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      07-06-2008, 01:19 PM   #16
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I ran 1.5-2mm of clearance with PSS9's on another car and did get a small amount of rubber residue on the strut tube but it did not affect handling in any way. I would prefer to have more though and I think 3mm should be the minimum. It also depends on what tire width and tire sidewall profile you run.

Running square will allow more oversteer but this condition can be dialed out by using different spacers front and rear. You could widen the track in the rear with an additional xmm spacer over the front spacer. The offset differences as they vary from stock is important. I will think about the numbers and post later. But a 9.0" front at ET29, and 9.0" rear at ET23 should give the same center line of footpring, but the larger wheel/tire in front will give a bit more track so this would be a bit more towards oversteer assuming 265's at all four corners.
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      07-06-2008, 04:14 PM   #17
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OK. So...
There is a concern that decreasing the width of the rear wheel can cause more oversteer in certain offsets. Given the stock 9.5" wheel with an ET23, moving to a 9.0" wheel with an ET30 (TRM with ET35 plus 5mm spacer) will put the rear wheel 1mm closer to the inside and 13mm farther away from the fender lip. This does not widen the track and should produce a looser feel. In order to have the same width in track, you would need to run an offset of ET17 on a 9.0" wheel to match the stock wheel/offset. This would put the wheel at the same place in relation to the fender lip, but would put it 12mm farther away from the inside. Given a constant center line, this would widen the track and should take away some oversteer. Running 265's on a 9.0 vs 265's on a 9.5 will also provide some additional squirm and feel of increased oversteer. A 20mm spacer could be used in the rear on a 9.0 ET35 wheel which would make it a ET15. A 10mm spacer on the ET35 wheel will give it an offset of ET25 and this would put the 9.0 wheel at 4mm farther away from the inside, and 8mm farther away from the fender lip. Maybe the best starting place in the rear that will provide less oversteer than the 5mm spacer does.

As for the front, the stock wheel is 8.5" ET29. Using the TRM wheel at 9.0" ET35 with a 5mm spacer, you end up at ET30, which will put the wheel 7mm closer to the strut and 5mm closer to the fender lip. A 10mm spacer will provide an effective ET25 offset, so the wheel will be 2mm closer to the strut and 10mm closer to the fender lip. Compared to running the rear stock wheel at 9.5" ET23 in the front, the 10mm spacer on a 9.0 provides 8mm more clearance to the fender lip, as the 9.5" ET23 wheel is 6mm closer to the strut and 18mm closer to the fender lip.

I would therefore suggest that when running a 9.0" ET35 wheel at all four corners, we should run a 5mm spacer in front and a 10mm spacer in the rear as a starting point to neutralize as best a possible the oversteer effect. 10mm spacer in front and a 5mm spacer will surely produce more oversteer, and no spacer in front and the 20mm spacer in the rear will produce the least amout of oversteer and probably more understeer than wanted.

Interesting details to discuss. This all changes of course when talking about a different wheel offset! Although the calculation difference from stock will still be easily computed. I have concern with a 9.5" wheel on the front especially when lowering the car, but DINAN seems to be able to do it in front with a larger tire. I don't think they would recommend it without their camber plates though. And I would have no concern with this type of agressive fitment if you run anything over -2.0 negative camber in the front.
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      07-06-2008, 04:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I would therefore suggest that when running a 9.0" ET35 wheel at all four corners, we should run a 5mm spacer in front and a 10mm spacer in the rear as a starting point to neutralize as best a possible the oversteer effect. 10mm spacer in front and a 5mm spacer will surely produce more oversteer, and no spacer in front and the 20mm spacer in the rear will produce the least amout of oversteer and probably more understeer than wanted.
if the front is fine with 10mm of clearance to the strut then I will run it without the spacer in the front. in this case the outside of the front wheel is equal to the stock location. Then I would run the 5mm spacer in the rear. this would give equivalent track width front to back that you suggest. If I get more oversteer than can be adjusted with tire pressures I can always change to a 10 mm spacer in back, but I dont think it will be a problem.

Iknow the e46 had more understeer to begin with , but I ran rear wheels all around on mye46 with 265, which gives a wider relative front track over stock by quite a bit. it was very nuetral on the track.
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      07-06-2008, 07:06 PM   #19
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All BMW's have a hint of understeer, even the M-models.

The square setup should neutralize that, really in theory dials in some oversteer to create a balanced feel.
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      07-07-2008, 02:27 AM   #20
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I forgot to ask if these TRM wheels use hubcentric rings?
Short post huh
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      07-07-2008, 04:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
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I forgot to ask if these TRM wheels use hubcentric rings?
Short post huh
99.9% sure they are hubcentric.
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      07-07-2008, 03:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I forgot to ask if these TRM wheels use hubcentric rings?
Short post huh
they are hubcentric - no adapters required if thats what you mean.

Tire rack says the 8 to 10 mm clear to the strut is fine so I will run the fronts with no spacers and the rears with the 5mm spacer to get the track out a bit.
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