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      06-26-2008, 11:35 AM   #45
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They call us riders organ donors..
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      06-26-2008, 11:41 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by RBP View Post

Humans are a virus and should probably be erradicated. They destroy landscapes, destroy other species, pollute and war against everything that moves.
What a stupid statement. When the dinosaurs caused millions of plant specied to go extinct because they were eating them, was they a virus too? Do cows deserve to be erradicated because the methane gas they make is polluting the atmosphere?



All species are viruses by that definition. Every link on the food chain is a virus - because it destroyes some other piece.

Algae - most of all!
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      06-26-2008, 11:43 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
What a stupid statement. When the dinosaurs caused millions of plant specied to go extinct because they were eating them, was they a virus too? Do cows deserve to be erradicated because the methane gas they make is polluting the atmosphere?



All species are viruses by that definition. Every link on the food chain is a virus - because it destroyes some other piece.

Algae - most of all!


No point in arguing with him man, he's an alien
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      06-26-2008, 12:30 PM   #48
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Humans are at the top of the ecosystem pyramid......

We have earned the right to do what we please..........

No one can stop us.......except aliens e.g. predator
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      06-26-2008, 01:01 PM   #49
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I'm sorry but there is no way that you can know that you are right. You might know the transplant process, but unless you can read the mind of every single transplant doc in the world, you cannot say for certain what motivates them or what their priorities are.
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So you speak for whole of USA or the whole of the American continent? Europe is a continent made up of many countries who each have there own culture, language & complete different medical make up. So really I don't really understand what your saying when you say " Well here in America" "Cant speak for europe"

Pick up a half dozen medical journals and read up on the subject. Don't quote some bullshit you found through a friend of a friend on an internet site. Then come back and post. The point of the process, and all the controls, is to remove the rogue individual(s) and make the entire process transparent and subject to review.

Furthermore, I'm not making a case for a moral obligation. It's a personal choice.

However, the misinformation and so-called "facts" you idiots present might actually be taken as truth by someone who does not know the true facts.

Transplants do not take place at your local hillbilly hospital - thet are at large, usually academic, medical centers, where there are numerous reviews prior to implantation. The donor is rarely known to the surgeon, all they know is an organ showed up and it needs to go into someone. The harvesting surgeon usually has no idea where the organs are headed, until maybe the last minute.

You want financial incentive? The incentive is to keep everyone in the ICU at $2500/day + procedures and nursing care. Those bills can hit $100k in a couple of months. There's no money in curing people - the money is in keeping them sick and/or on drugs.
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      07-01-2008, 10:54 PM   #50
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No point in arguing with him man, he's an alien
Weird.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...6&postcount=53
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      07-01-2008, 10:55 PM   #51
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They call us riders organ donors..
cause we ride donor cycles?
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      07-02-2008, 02:00 AM   #52
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I would not presume that the system is as perfect as you may think. I am a physician. I have been present at the time of harvest. I have seen which communities the organs come from and where they end up going to. I have sat-in to witness these so called reviewing councils...and trust me, they are not completly immune to some corruption.

It is a business plain and simple. Most organs do not come from the very sick battling some chronic illness, because their organs are not likely good candidates to begin with. Most come from a completely healty young individual in some sort of accident/ sudden death/ shooting. Most are not pre-designated donors....but rather, those whose families are "convinced" about the beauty of organ donation. They go to those that have been successful in getting onto a transplant list...by whichever method. Usually, it is someone fortunate or wealthy enough to have great insurance before they became sick. The next of kin/ family of donor have to be content with only the warm fuzzy feeling they helped one or several people. Or better yet, their loved one continues to live and there is some sort of legacy preservation in the life of the recipient. Everyone else gets paid...facility, harvesting team, transplant team, transport team. And of course, the recipient gets another chance at life...all the while continuing to use their great insurance to continue payments for lifelong medical care/ immunosuppresion.

If you do not believe me...see how many of people on your local transplant list are non-insured. The dirty secret is, when it all boils down-- its not really all about helping people, its about who can pay to keep your facility credentialed to allow you to keep doing these procedures.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline..._police_i.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...3.html?sub=new

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2008032103015

For those of you that know anything about medical centers....look up your local places from this list below---it is from a couple years back. For example...in Los Angeles, the hospitals achieving the highest rates of successful harvesting among eligible donors were....LA County USC and Harbor/UCLA. Where is Cedars Sinai, UCLA Med, UCI ??? Weird huh? The largest facilities that actually perform the transplants did not make the list. Hmmm...maybe that is because those places only GET the organs. The other places only GIVE the organs. How is that fair? Do we not have moral obligation to provide organs to the same communities and populations from which the organs are coming from? Oh wait...those are hospitals that serve the uninsured, the underinsured, or worst...the illegals.

http://newsroom.hrsa.gov/releases/20...ion-medals.htm

Whatever....you are completely blind if you believe that the only problem with our system is the lack of organs.

I am not an organ donor, and never will be.
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      07-02-2008, 05:29 AM   #53
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Wow, magmd just bitch slapped all of you!...
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      07-02-2008, 07:38 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBP View Post
The original argument is premised on the notion that human life should be saved and extended as long as possible.

Humans are a virus and should probably be erradicated. They destroy landscapes, destroy other species, pollute and war against everything that moves.
If you actually look at the definition of a parasitic organism, humans meet many of those criteria pretty well. We take much more than we give back. I would like to believe we're more conscious of the fact now and are actively trying to do something about it, but hey, my .02.

BTW, organ transplantation isn't exactly as cut and dry as you think. You don't think your organ is just going to be immediately placed into someone else do you? There's multiple criteria for an organ transplant, most important of which are the status of your organs. If you died from a car accident and sustained massive internal hemorrhaging leading to multiple organ failure, your organs are useless.

If your organs can be used to transplant, they have to match you to someone that can actually receive your organ without their body attacking your organ or vice versa, ie. HLA matching. And unless you are a twin or immediate relative, your organ will probably be at best a 4/6 HLA match, meaning that person will be on immunosuppressants the rest of their life.

Even if they found a match for you immediately somewhere in the country, there's a limited amount of time that your organs are viable after they're pulled out of a human body. If they're not being transported post-mortem, they'll have to fly the patient out to the organ donor and do the transplantation at the site where the donor's body is. This usually means they'll have the donor on life support even if they are brain-dead, meaning they're a vegetable. The only reason why a machine is controlling their heart beating and lungs taking in oxygen is because they're waiting to give the organs to the recipient, not exactly something a family member of the donor wants to witness. As magmd said, organ transplant isn't as useful as you may think. The future of medicine relies on many new and exciting issues from metagenomics with the ability to aid in preventing disease to stem cell research leading to the ability to culture out organs from a recipient's own DNA. That's where we should be putting our money into.
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