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      06-12-2008, 05:29 PM   #23
scottwww
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
you're a genius...
Dont you guys have anything better to do up there?
Up here we have nothing better to do. How about you down there? You have posted a lot more than I have on e90post.
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      06-12-2008, 05:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Up here we have nothing better to do. How about you down there? You have posted a lot more than I have on e90post.
I've been a member longer, too...
Anyway, I meant all that side-crap you do with the web pages...
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      06-12-2008, 06:01 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
I've been a member longer, too...
Anyway, I meant all that side-crap you do with the web pages...
It's an election year. It's hard to stay away from letting it fly.
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      06-12-2008, 07:33 PM   #26
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Sorry I saw it on tv. Trust me it is not taken out of context, I have it on my DVR.
Show me, or admit it's been taken out of context.

Seems like a bunch of bs to me....swiftboating, eh kid....
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      06-12-2008, 08:09 PM   #27
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The higher the price of gas goes, the more economic incentive for alternative energy. Drilling in Alaska is a band aide. We lost 8 years to an "industry" (oil) friendly administration in which we should have been pressing for other options. As long as we are dependent on foreign oil (which we will be as long as we are using petroleum), we will continue to have to deal with the assholes in the Middle East.

Example - every damned building in the west/southwest should have solar panels on them. Think of all the energy hitting the ground every minute of daylight every day, absolutely wasted. Europe is getting on board - the German government is subsidizing the installation of solar and is driving the prices of panels through the roof. We need more production and installation to bring those costs down. The way oil is going, all the other sources of energy that were cost prohibitive will now start to look a whole lot more appealing.

I know China and India are using more oil than before, but I don't think it is anywhere near 250%. No, I think speculators are creating a panic, driving up the prices and profiting from our fears. Seems to be a common theme these last 8 years...
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      06-12-2008, 08:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClean View Post
The higher the price of gas goes, the more economic incentive for alternative energy. Drilling in Alaska is a band aide. We lost 8 years to an "industry" (oil) friendly administration in which we should have been pressing for other options. As long as we are dependent on foreign oil (which we will be as long as we are using petroleum), we will continue to have to deal with the assholes in the Middle East.

Example - every damned building in the west/southwest should have solar panels on them. Think of all the energy hitting the ground every minute of daylight every day, absolutely wasted. Europe is getting on board - the German government is subsidizing the installation of solar and is driving the prices of panels through the roof. We need more production and installation to bring those costs down. The way oil is going, all the other sources of energy that were cost prohibitive will now start to look a whole lot more appealing.

I know China and India are using more oil than before, but I don't think it is anywhere near 250%. No, I think speculators are creating a panic, driving up the prices and profiting from our fears. Seems to be a common theme these last 8 years...
What are the most efficient alternative energy sources? Is one of them nuclear? I suggest nuclear as a great source for reliable electric power. The U.S. has enough uranimum in the ground to last for a very long time. Perhaps by the time that is running out, we will have conquered the efficiency problems with nuclear fusion.

I am all for nuclear power generation. I also have nothing at all against solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, etc. However, as you have pointed out, this is an economics equation. Don't promote stuff where it just doesn't make sense. And killing our economy makes no sense at all except to the hate America first crowd.

Drill here. Drill now. Pay less.
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      06-12-2008, 08:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClean View Post
The higher the price of gas goes, the more economic incentive for alternative energy. Drilling in Alaska is a band aide. We lost 8 years to an "industry" (oil) friendly administration in which we should have been pressing for other options. As long as we are dependent on foreign oil (which we will be as long as we are using petroleum), we will continue to have to deal with the assholes in the Middle East.

Example - every damned building in the west/southwest should have solar panels on them. Think of all the energy hitting the ground every minute of daylight every day, absolutely wasted. Europe is getting on board - the German government is subsidizing the installation of solar and is driving the prices of panels through the roof. We need more production and installation to bring those costs down. The way oil is going, all the other sources of energy that were cost prohibitive will now start to look a whole lot more appealing.

I know China and India are using more oil than before, but I don't think it is anywhere near 250%. No, I think speculators are creating a panic, driving up the prices and profiting from our fears. Seems to be a common theme these last 8 years...
I see you are in So Cal, do you have solar panels on your house? If not, why not? Why do you think it is the place of government to tell you that you can or must?
The idea that ANWR is a band aid is a myth. If we had acted 10 years ago when President Clinton vetoed the bill that would have opened the area up, we could be pumping approx. 1.4 million barrels a day from there. To put that into perspective, that is around what we currently import from our third largest source, Saudi Arabia.

Now figure in the reserves known to exist off the Pacific and Gulf coasts and the shale deposits in the west and we would be in a position where we could be getting the vast majority of our oil from this hemisphere.

What would be a feel good measure is your idea for solar. We generate most of our electric power from coal, which we are awash in, not oil or natural gas.
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      06-13-2008, 12:12 AM   #30
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Yep. $52K after incentives, but pretty much off the grid (actually that is not correct - the panels are hooked into the grid and turn your meter backwards via an inverter). At my current rate of usage, the system pays for itself in about 7 years, then it's a free ride as long as the panels hold up. It is expensive because quality panels are in short supply - as I said, many are being snapped up by Europe at present. As conventional energy sources rise in cost, it may become easier to justify building facilities to produce these panels, which should drop the price. If history is any indication, though, once we start heading in that direction, the price of crude will magically fall and take with it the incentive for anyone trying to seriously explore alternative energy sources.

Solar makes perfect sense in places where it is sunny for, hell, 300+ days of the year. Does this help us with our dependence on gasoline. No, but it might come in handy if hydrogen ever takes hold, or the price of those damned Teslas ever drops.

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      06-13-2008, 08:28 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClean View Post
Yep. $52K after incentives, but pretty much off the grid (actually that is not correct - the panels are hooked into the grid and turn your meter backwards via an inverter). At my current rate of usage, the system pays for itself in about 7 years, then it's a free ride as long as the panels hold up. It is expensive because quality panels are in short supply - as I said, many are being snapped up by Europe at present. As conventional energy sources rise in cost, it may become easier to justify building facilities to produce these panels, which should drop the price. If history is any indication, though, once we start heading in that direction, the price of crude will magically fall and take with it the incentive for anyone trying to seriously explore alternative energy sources.

Solar makes perfect sense in places where it is sunny for, hell, 300+ days of the year. Does this help us with our dependence on gasoline. No, but it might come in handy if hydrogen ever takes hold, or the price of those damned Teslas ever drops.
That is really cool that you have actually done something about it yourself. It seems that nearly all who talk about solar as the answer don't have solar themselves, and drive SUVs. Walk the walk, and you can talk the talk.
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      06-13-2008, 01:03 PM   #32
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The hazard of using compact fluorescent light bulbs:

Cleanup of broken bulbs
Broken CFL bulbs release mercury vapors which are harmful to human and ecological health. The EPA has a page dedicated to clean-up of broken CFL Bulbs.[24] Although mercury in these bulbs is a health hazard,[24] special handling upon breakage is currently not printed on the packaging of household CFL bulbs in many countries. It is important to note that the amount of mercury released by one bulb can exceed U.S. federal guidelines for chronic exposure. [25][26]

Wikipedia
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      06-13-2008, 02:25 PM   #33
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Don't drop your bulbs, lol. I replaced probably 90% of my lights with CFLs - they do make a difference in your bills. Not cheap, but if they last anywhere near as long as promised, they will more than make up for the initial cost. They've made big improvements regarding color, too. The lower temp ones (~2500K) are actually quite warm as opposed to the clinical blue-white light of the higher temp ones.
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      06-13-2008, 02:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
Show me, or admit it's been taken out of context.

Seems like a bunch of bs to me....swiftboating, eh kid....
It's common knowledge the democrats want us off oil so of course they like the high prices. This is exactly what Obama said. If you want the proof, search yourself. If I get a moment in the next few days I'll look around.
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      06-13-2008, 02:34 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClean View Post
Yep. $52K after incentives, but pretty much off the grid (actually that is not correct - the panels are hooked into the grid and turn your meter backwards via an inverter).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClean View Post
Don't drop your bulbs, lol. I replaced probably 90% of my lights with CFLs - they do make a difference in your bills. Not cheap, but if they last anywhere near as long as promised, they will more than make up for the initial cost. They've made big improvements regarding color, too. The lower temp ones (~2500K) are actually quite warm as opposed to the clinical blue-white light of the higher temp ones.
My hat is off to you. Most people who insist that something must be done to help the environment mean that someone else must do something. (Read Al Gore, Robert Kennedy, Jr., etc...)

I applaud you for putting your money where your mouth is.
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      06-14-2008, 01:22 AM   #36
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Quote:
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It's common knowledge the democrats want us off oil so of course they like the high prices. This is exactly what Obama said. If you want the proof, search yourself. If I get a moment in the next few days I'll look around.
Hell yeah! Democrats don't know what to do with their extra cash - we want to spend it on gas and welfare mommas.

What kind of circular logic must one employ to make that argument believable. Democrats do not live in a vacuum - if taxes are raised, they're paying them, too. Maybe we understand you can't spend the way we've been spending for the last 8 years without having to pay the bill at some point. Unfortunately, it's a helluva big bill, and the "cleanup" will most likely happen on the democrats' watch, only reinforcing the stereotype that dems like higher taxes. It's the perfect crime.
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      06-14-2008, 01:24 AM   #37
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My hat is off to you. Most people who insist that something must be done to help the environment mean that someone else must do something. (Read Al Gore, Robert Kennedy, Jr., etc...)

I applaud you for putting your money where your mouth is.
Yeah, well I'm still driving a Bimmer . There's only so far I can go, man.
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