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      06-05-2008, 10:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT View Post
I guess you didn't realize that Obama does not accept money from lobbyists or Political Action Committees aka PAC's or Special interest groups that do business with the Federal government or "washington lobbyists" as we have all come to call them.
Is this video accurate? Or is it just fabrication? Does this kind of money matter?

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      06-05-2008, 11:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
An interest group made up of people who share an interest.



Lobbyists exist because the federal government has expanded it own power. What are the chances that the individual right to bear arms would still be a subject of discussion in this country but for the lobbying efforts of the NRA?
It is not so simple a matter as you would have us believe. I am not advocating the end of the congressional lobby. I do, however, see a problem that has no easy solution. You don't seem to acknowledge there is a problem. The lobbyists are made of different stuff than the people that send them to seduce our representatives. (Those words are not a mistake. People like to be seduced.)

There is no perfect solution. There may not even be a workable solution. However, there is a problem. It needs to be addressed to see if there is something that can correct the problem in whole or in part. You are not part of the solution when you deny there is a problem.

I'll offer a silly analogy:

If you joined a hypothetical origanization called "BMW Drivers in the USA" because you like to drive your car, and because you get discounts for parts, but the dues you paid, whether you knew anything about it or not, went to lobbyists in D.C. to push for everything that could undermine auto production in the U.S. Maybe you wouldn't care. Maybe you wouldn't like it at all. In either case, you didn't have anything to say about it. It was the organization that lured you in with sweet discounts. The organization's leadership had motives that ran counter to your own. They destroyed the domestic industry bit by bit, piece by piece, because it favored the organization.

Again, I say that there may not be a perfect solution. I don't pretend to know the solution, but I certainly am not going to claim there is no problem. Can you say that?
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      06-05-2008, 11:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
It is not so simple a matter as you would have us believe. I am not advocating the end of the congressional lobby. I do, however, see a problem that has no easy solution. You don't seem to acknowledge there is a problem. The lobbyists are made of different stuff than the people that send them to seduce our representatives. (Those words are not a mistake. People like to be seduced.)

....

Again, I say that there may not be a perfect solution. I don't pretend to know the solution, but I certainly am not going to claim there is no problem. Can you say that?
I may have a problem with specific lobbyists and their practices but lobbyists exist because they represent the interests of a group of individuals. I do not agree with a lot of the organizations that lobby Congress but I would never dream of restricting their right to do so.

If an organization I belonged to was lobbying Congress for a cause I did not believe in I would either lobby the organization membership to change their stance or quit.
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      06-05-2008, 11:45 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Was that the reason you also voted for Bush?
Ah wait...you were too young to vote in 2004
I didn't vote for Bush. It's just like how Obama says he didn't vote for the Iraq war.
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      06-05-2008, 11:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I may have a problem with specific lobbyists and their practices but lobbyists exist because they represent the interests of a group of individuals. I do not agree with a lot of the organizations that lobby Congress but I would never dream of restricting their right to do so.

If an organization I belonged to was lobbying Congress for a cause I did not believe in I would either lobby the organization membership to change their stance or quit.
I'll try to sum up this divide between you and I.

Me: There is a problem with the degree of lobbyist influence over congress.
You: Lobbyist's influence is necessary, though I may disagree with some lobbyists.
Me: What can be done to reduce the federal government and reduce the influence of lobbyists that swarm around it?
You: The status quo is alright.
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      06-06-2008, 12:28 AM   #28
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It is a sad state of affairs in this country. We have a snake oil salesman on one side and an old sailor thumping his medals on the other side. Is this the best we can do? I would not want either to be the CEO of any corporation I have money in let alone run the country.

Vote for me, at least you know I am an incompetent crook, so there will be no surprise at the end of my term. I will never again vote for the lesser of two evils. If I can not stand behind the candidate I’ll leave it up to you. And of course I will complain when you get it wrong. And yes, I have a poor attitude.
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      06-06-2008, 06:57 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
I didn't vote for Bush. It's just like how Obama says he didn't vote for the Iraq war.
Just a bit different...
No one threatened you if you don't vote
No one marked you unpatriotic if you don't vote
And Obama was eligible to vote, you were not...
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      06-06-2008, 09:27 AM   #30
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A vote is a vote. One is better than none.

I can say I won't be voting for Obama, that's for damn sure. I'm not saying I'm voting for McCain either. I hope there's a third party I can throw a vote at.
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      06-06-2008, 09:53 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Is this video accurate? Or is it just fabrication? Does this kind of money matter?

I am actually quite glad you brought that up. The creators of this video are extremely misleading.

The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organization's individual members or employees and those individuals' immediate families paychecks

What these people tried to portray is Big Business taking money out of their own pockets to donate money to a campaign, where in fact it is actually individuals who are contributing themselves and not on behalf of the company.

By this videos account if you have 5,000 individual General Motors workers who choose to donate money to a campaign out of their own paychecks are being classified by these people as Big Business.

These individuals aren't lobbying Obama. They aren't saying ill give you $25 dollars if you do me this favor or pass this bill.

I actually donated money to Barack's campaign a month or so ago and I was actually suprised by how great of a length they go to make you agree to all these terms stating that you are not representing any company, that you are not a lobbyist and so on. Barack is not joking around about this that's for sure.

Last edited by TMNT; 06-06-2008 at 01:08 PM.
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      06-06-2008, 01:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
And Obama was eligible to vote, you were not...
No he wasn't... I love how you just make shit up as you go on all points.
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      06-06-2008, 02:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 155MPH View Post
funny when you are asking if IT is DUMB
Hey Grammar Nazi Guy ... get in your roadster and GTFO ..... intelligence has nothing to do with spelling an grammar.
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      06-06-2008, 02:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT View Post
I guess you didn't realize that Obama does not accept money from lobbyists or Political Action Committees aka PAC's or Special interest groups that do business with the Federal government or "washington lobbyists" as we have all come to call them.

He says this all the time and no one tries to say otherwise because they all know its true.

As a matter of fact since Barack Obama doesn't accept money from lobbyists, PAC's or special interest groups Obama announced TODAY that his policy of not accepting money from these groups will now apply to the Democratic National Committee (DNC) since they will assist him in raising money for this election.

What other candidate can say that in recent history?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080605/...emocrats_money

Your right when you said those who don't accept lobbyist money don't win. That is usually the case, but that's what makes Obama's win such a story. People thought he was nuts and would never raise any money. But his message of change and doing things differently really resonated with the american public and they supported him. He had such a massive, never before seen grassroots effort to raise money from people like you and me that historians will be talking about this for decades to come. His money raising effort is a political "david vs goliath" story in itself that political thinkers could write books about for years to come.

People say what change? "He's just talking non sense." Well there you go...change you can believe in....and it actually worked despite the massive odds.

AND if he wins the presidency....he won't owe "Big Business" any favors. About time!!!!
Interesting ... can you provide any links to more info on his fund raising? I would like to read further on that.

Only problem is if this is true and he gets elected .... all his Senate brothers & sisters have all got paid off to get where they are.
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      06-06-2008, 02:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Was that the reason you also voted for Bush?
Ah wait...you were too young to vote in 2004
Agist! Haha

Personally, I was old enough to vote the last two elections, but didn't really care about politics then. This will be my first time voting. So you guys can't call me a Bushie haha.
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      06-06-2008, 06:18 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
No he wasn't... I love how you just make shit up as you go on all points.
I don't, we all know you were <18 in 2004, and we all know Obama was OPENLY against this War when debated...
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      06-08-2008, 12:36 AM   #37
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i'm voting for obama so i can enjoy watching him getting impeached!
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      06-08-2008, 12:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3This View Post
I mean the only reason these candidates are getting the funding is from lobbiest groups. Those who dont support or agree with lobbiest dont get the funding and turn have a hard time getting the exposure they need to compete.
You can't be serious? Obama has rejected lobbyist groups from day one. He's gathered his funding via a grassroots campaign. So if you are against lobbyist groups and in favor of those who reject what they stand for Obama is your man. . .whether you are a republican or a democrat. . .


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      06-08-2008, 01:01 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Solonng View Post
i'm voting for obama so i can enjoy watching him getting impeached!
This guy is either drunk (take note of time) or his family tree has just one branch. . .
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      06-08-2008, 01:28 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by PLAYON View Post
his family tree has just one branch. . .
Heh, i never heard that one before, that's pretty good.

You win, [/thread]
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      06-08-2008, 07:20 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by PLAYON View Post
This guy is either drunk (take note of time) or his family tree has just one branch. . .
you know it...inner FL is full of those...
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      06-08-2008, 08:23 PM   #42
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better yet, i want to see hillary run as vp with obama so she'll finally have a stud!
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      06-08-2008, 08:58 PM   #43
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This guy is either drunk (take note of time) or his family tree has just one branch. . .
wow, thank you for noticing.
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      06-08-2008, 09:03 PM   #44
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fuck politics.
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