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      05-28-2008, 08:39 AM   #1
M3NTAL
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C&D Comparison: 997 TT vs. Nissan GT-R vs. M3. Guess who wins??

The M3 Coupe. This isn't a joke.

In the July 2008 issue, p. 56-68.

I'll scan images in asap.

Just wanted to post this as soon as I could.
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      05-28-2008, 09:52 AM   #2
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repost but maybe you can do a better job with the scanning...
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      05-28-2008, 12:13 PM   #3
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I couldn't find the other thread. Please post it. I wanna see, I wanna see
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      05-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
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repost but maybe you can do a better job with the scanning...
Not a repost, especially considering this mag just came out yesterday. The other one was from CAR magazine, out of the UK/Europe. I don't believe the results are the same either...

I'm working on scanning right now. I'm sacrificing my own magazine for this so you better damn appreciate it!
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      05-28-2008, 03:43 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by M3NTAL View Post
The M3 Coupe. This isn't a joke.

In the July 2008 issue, p. 56-68.

I'll scan images in asap.

Just wanted to post this as soon as I could.
The fact that it isn't a joke, is what makes it so funny. Flame suit on.
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      05-28-2008, 07:03 PM   #6
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The fact that it isn't a joke, is what makes it so funny. Flame suit on.
+1

M3 over 997TT.....forget it.

Unless youre desperate for back seats/boot space or money is an issue (then why the compare a 997TT to an M3) i'd love to see someone turn down the P-car for the m3.

Bring on the fanboys...
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      05-28-2008, 09:45 PM   #7
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easy there killers, I'm not saying that I would personally take an M3 over a 997 TT, in fact I wouldn't, the Porsche is a much better car. There is a reason for the $50k+ price difference.
That's just what the magazine says. Don't just assume because I posted this, I share the same opinion.
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      05-28-2008, 10:12 PM   #8
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      05-28-2008, 10:15 PM   #9
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and the rest...
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      05-28-2008, 10:54 PM   #10
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Wow!

Thanks for the scans M3NTAL. I have not had the luxury of driving a 911 Turbo or GTR. Had a short stint in a 996 GT3. Mentally (excuse the term M3NTAL), that puts me in a huge valley of doubt that the M3 is as good as I think it is. While we know car reviews are always subjective, no matter how many points they assign, it's good to know a respected publication thinks the M3 is really special compared to these heavyweights.

All of their points about the M3 resonate, but it's good to have the comparison evaluation. I'm happy and that's all that really matters to me, but it's good to be loved!
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      05-29-2008, 12:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3NTAL View Post
Not a repost, especially considering this mag just came out yesterday. The other one was from CAR magazine, out of the UK/Europe. I don't believe the results are the same either...

I'm working on scanning right now. I'm sacrificing my own magazine for this so you better damn appreciate it!
Repost but you sure did a better job with the scanning.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145284
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      05-29-2008, 05:58 AM   #12
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easy there killers, I'm not saying that I would personally take an M3 over a 997 TT, in fact I wouldn't, the Porsche is a much better car. There is a reason for the $50k+ price difference.
That's just what the magazine says. Don't just assume because I posted this, I share the same opinion.
I (we) are responding to the article that you posted, not necessarily your opinion.
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      05-29-2008, 06:55 AM   #13
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High praise, indeed. When you factor in cost, it's not inconceivable that the M3 could get the nod.
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      05-29-2008, 10:46 AM   #14
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Nice article, thanks for the magazine sacrifice! I can go harrass a colleague in the US now.

Btw I have outrun two 997 TT on the autobahn during normal "at speed" acceleration comparisons. These occur when a slower car won't get over quickly enough and both cars bunch up in a line in the left lane. When the car clears it begins.

The first one the guy took forever but finally got out of the way (my girlfriend maintained the entire rest of the trip that he was just an old man.) The second was a spirited run from Aschaffenburg incline to Würzburg on twisties, and when after two or three acceleration romps where it was obvious that the M3 was faster, the Porsche got over and followed me. This was a huge surprise. I knew the M3 was fast, but faster than the 997 TT!? We stuck together and finally all four of us waved as I got off for gas - I had not tanked up before leaving Wiesbaden.


Is it bed time? Because, it's certainly story time.
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      05-29-2008, 10:49 AM   #15
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High praise, indeed. When you factor in cost, it's not inconceivable that the M3 could get the nod.
Yeah, let's deduct 12 points for the tt's lack of trunk space, and rear seat room and comfort. Why not compare a Ducati 1098 and say that we'll deduct points because it only seats two. People that buy tts are not concerned with these things. Most would opt for a rear seat delete if it was an option.
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      05-29-2008, 11:01 AM   #16
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All the C&D writers have basically said is which car they would buy out of the 3. As someone who could buy any of the 3 cars myself I came to a similar conclusion. I realize that as a 35 year old father of about-to-be-two my priorities might not be the same as the 24 year old Gran Turismo fanatic.

Nonexhaustive comparison summary:
M3 -- OK performance bang for the buck (winners here = Evo), great ride, practical, best blend of performance and luxury
GT-R -- (at MSRP) better performance bang for the buck, crappy ride, not terribly practical, ugly
TT -- crappy bang for the buck, not practical, mmm full red leather.

Just because C&D cares about the back seat no one else has to, but to argue this makes the comparison less valid then someone who cares only about acceleration is laughable.
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      05-29-2008, 12:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Devo,
How often do you drive on the Autobahn? When was the last time you drove for 2 or 3 hours at speeds over 125mph semi-sustained? Over here, there is a lot of speeding up and slowing down. This is how these little competitions start. The fastest cars generally wind up in a line behind the slowest ones... If you are faster, then you bulldoze the car in front of you out of the way when they finally cede, and then you cruise for a while.

Oh...I just noticed...you drive a Porsche. No offense intended, since I am a long standing Porsche fan.

If you don't want to believe it, then perhaps you should spend some time on the Autobahn and find out how 0-60 doesn't actually mean anything...at all. Rolling starts are a different world completely. Speeds over 125mph? This is about manufacturer gearing decisions, weight, torque, horsepower, and aerodynamics.

Both behind and in front the M3 was faster than the 997 TT. Repeatedly.

Now maybe that is because I shift rather well- or it could be that Porsches are getting a bit chubby and that will get fixed pronto or Ferry will come back from the grave to Zuffenhausen to motivate his engineers. What do you think? Give it a year, and this is going to be a very different discussion.
I think the other poster took pictures of the article

The writers/reviewers were looking for a car that is practical, and can perform as well; a good GT car. I still standby my statement that a 997 TT is a better performance car than the M3, but in my opinion Porsches are overrated. I know the fanboys will come back and say I'm completely full of sh!t, and that I know nothing and what not, but I think they are. Yeah they handle great, but it just doesn't feel like something special. If I'm going to pay $200k+ on a car I would most definitely get an F430 over a GT2. When you sit in a Ferrari you know you're in something special, something that has been hand crafted in minute detail. The Porsche feels like it can perform, and it has technology and craftsmanship, but you just don't feel the sense of occasion in it. Now do I feel that in an M3? Not entirely, about the same or a little less as a Porsche, but I wouldn't expect to on a car that costs only $70k.

I'm not going to bash Porsches and I haven't, like I said they are a great performance car, but the writers of this article are right, when looking for a great GT car, the 997 TT isn't it.
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      05-29-2008, 12:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qship View Post
Devo,
How often do you drive on the Autobahn? When was the last time you drove for 2 or 3 hours at speeds over 125mph semi-sustained? Over here, there is a lot of speeding up and slowing down. This is how these little competitions start. The fastest cars generally wind up in a line behind the slowest ones... If you are faster, then you bulldoze the car in front of you out of the way when they finally cede, and then you cruise for a while.

Oh...I just noticed...you drive a Porsche. No offense intended, since I am a long standing Porsche fan.

If you don't want to believe it, then perhaps you should spend some time on the Autobahn and find out how 0-60 doesn't actually mean anything...at all. Rolling starts are a different world completely. Speeds over 125mph? This is about manufacturer gearing decisions, weight, torque, horsepower, and aerodynamics.

Both behind and in front the M3 was faster than the 997 TT. Repeatedly.

Now maybe that is because I shift rather well- or it could be that Porsches are getting a bit chubby and that will get fixed pronto or Ferry will come back from the grave to Zuffenhausen to motivate his engineers. What do you think? Give it a year, and this is going to be a very different discussion.
you have to understand, for those of us that have driven both, it's hard to believe the M3 is faster, the 911 TT is faster than the M3 IMHO, in the 1/4, 1/8, or from a roll, drivers equal, now of course if there is a driver error I can see the M3 pulling ahead

Last edited by spearfisher; 05-29-2008 at 03:42 PM.
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      05-29-2008, 01:59 PM   #19
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you have to understand, for those of us that have driven both, it's hard to believe, the 911 TT is faster IMHO, in the 1/4, 1/8, or from a roll, drivers equal, now of course if there is a driver error I can see the M3 pulling ahead
The 997tt runs 0-100 in 7.8, 0-60 in 3.2 and the 1/4 in the upper 11's. The 997tt has 210 lb./ft more torque, 66 more ponies and weighs over 200 lbs less; with AWD. Tell me how your statement makes sense. The M3, albiet one fantastic car, will get embarrassed in each and every encounter with the 997tt.
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      05-29-2008, 03:05 PM   #20
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The 997tt runs 0-100 in 7.8, 0-60 in 3.2 and the 1/4 in the upper 11's. The 997tt has 210 lb./ft more torque, 66 more ponies and weighs over 200 lbs less; with AWD. Tell me how your statement makes sense. The M3, albiet one fantastic car, will get embarrassed in each and every encounter with the 997tt.
I think the "911 TT" should be replaced with "E9# M3"

mistype imo...
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      05-29-2008, 03:41 PM   #21
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The 997tt runs 0-100 in 7.8, 0-60 in 3.2 and the 1/4 in the upper 11's. The 997tt has 210 lb./ft more torque, 66 more ponies and weighs over 200 lbs less; with AWD. Tell me how your statement makes sense. The M3, albiet one fantastic car, will get embarrassed in each and every encounter with the 997tt.
huh, I don't understand, I stated the 911 is faster, I advised the only way the individual might beat a 911 is through the 911 driver making an error, ex: missed gear

I made corrections any way so there is no misunderstanding in the future
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      05-29-2008, 10:31 PM   #22
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devo...

Perhaps I am a damn good driver who knows how to shift, but I think that Porsche owners here in Germany know how to do this too...turbocharged HP is not equal to normally aspirated high rev HP and wide torque range...period.

I did not intend this to turn into a story telling episode, so sorry if I made you yawn, and from the number of my posts you should be able to tell that I am not so interested in "we are so great." I originally joined to ask a question about why the USB interface did not recognize certain file types...and never got an answer. I have hung around, but I am on the fence if I will stay.

If you do not believe me, fine.

I whipped the shit out of two Porche 997 TTs on the autobahn. Done. It surprised the hell out of me.
I'll have to jump on the side of the skeptics here. No matter what the beginning speed is the 997TT will hand the E9X M3 its ass. If you bested them there are only a couple of possibilities, 1. They did not push hard, 2. They are miserable drivers who can not downshift, 3. They are in a limp mode, do to car malfunction. There just are not any other possibilities. The car is significantly faster under nearly all conditions.
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