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      04-28-2008, 05:21 AM   #23
dechoong
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I love the latest Porsche engines but I haven't yet taken to the latest facelift tidbits, particularly the rear taillight treatment. It just looks different for the sake of being so, not necessarily better, and perhaps even worse.
Just a nip and tuck to keep it looking fresh before the next generation arrives. What's important is the updated mechanicals (DI and PDK). Porsche should have retire the outdated Mercedes 5 speed slushbox long ago.
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      04-28-2008, 06:15 AM   #24
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Is the displacement still the same at 3.8l? 310 lb/ft (420Nm) of torque for a 3.8l NA engine is pretty impressive.

Considering how various generations of M3 and 911 Carrera fair against each other, the updated 997S should be slightly faster than the E92 M3.
The displacement is still 3.8L. What I find very impressive is that the X51 power kit will likely yield 410 hp and 321lb/ft of torque from the same displacement.

The GT3 is rumored to get 440 hp from 3.6 liters. Wow!

I would think that the next 911 will likely debut the fall of 2010.
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      04-29-2008, 03:34 AM   #25
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The displacement is still 3.8L. What I find very impressive is that the X51 power kit will likely yield 410 hp and 321lb/ft of torque from the same displacement.

The GT3 is rumored to get 440 hp from 3.6 liters. Wow!

I would think that the next 911 will likely debut the fall of 2010.

my god....how is that possible? thats 122hp per liter. more than the S2000's 240hp @ 120hp per liter. any idea where the new GT3 will redline at? PORSCHE
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      04-29-2008, 06:29 AM   #26
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my god....how is that possible? thats 122hp per liter. more than the S2000's 240hp @ 120hp per liter. any idea where the new GT3 will redline at? PORSCHE
I should clarify that statement. I also heard that PAG may bump displacement to 3.8L for the GT3, but even so...
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      04-29-2008, 08:53 AM   #27
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But without orange peel, gas guzzler tax or 3704 pounds of heft.

Besides, base price will likely be $85K, but who's counting.
I am Porsche fan here so dont get me wrong...

Buuuuut the car may not have GG tax and the paint may be better, but is it worth the over 100K the car will likely cost with even half the options you listed. Dont forget that Porsche rapes you on options, even small ones like floor mats are ridiculous....

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      04-29-2008, 09:19 AM   #28
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The options are unreal, I saw C&D had a Boxster (non-S) with ceramic brakes, paint etc. and it was MSRP like $75K.

I can easily see 911S or 4S costing $110K. Not saying they are bad and probably you don't need all the options but like the M3 where it's easy to get option on top of option but just imagine Porsche has 3x as many options as BMW.

The 911 will be better than the M3 (less weight) and may not have GG tax but at a $30K higher starting point you can buy 10 years worth of gas for a M3 for $30K
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      04-29-2008, 10:20 AM   #29
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The options are unreal, I saw C&D had a Boxster (non-S) with ceramic brakes, paint etc. and it was MSRP like $75K.

I can easily see 911S or 4S costing $110K. Not saying they are bad and probably you don't need all the options but like the M3 where it's easy to get option on top of option but just imagine Porsche has 3x as many options as BMW.

The 911 will be better than the M3 (less weight) and may not have GG tax but at a $30K higher starting point you can buy 10 years worth of gas for a M3 for $30K
This is true, but you do not have to spec out the car that heavily. There is no reason whatsoever to spec paint other than the $690 metallic paint option. Ceramics are another ridiculous option. For comparison sakes, it is fair to say the you can get into a nicely equipped 2009 C2S for $90,000-$92,000 depending on how much PAG ups the price. I just built a 2008 for $89,000 with met. paint and no Nav. It has everything else that would make it comparable to the M.

Some 335 owners have the same arguement regarding the price disparity between the M3 and the 335. Adding coil-overs and an ECU mod will bring "similar" performance on the street. I am not making this another modded 335 is as good as the M thread, because, I believe that the M is worth the extra cost. But, the same applies to the 911 for me.

To me, another $20-22k over the M, for what 2009 will bring, is worth the cost of admission. Some of the extras like, 20mm Sport Suspension, Sport Exhaust, Sport Shifter and Full Leather (this adds stitched leather to the entire dash, doors, rear seats, PCM, etc... the seats have leather standard.) are not necessary. Although, it would be like adding a different exhaust, coil-overs and short shifter to the M.

Although, I am buying a 911S, I do not have a problem saying that the M3 represents a better performance value. I just like the 911S better.

Last edited by devo; 04-29-2008 at 10:50 AM.
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      04-29-2008, 10:31 AM   #30
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I am Porsche fan here so dont get me wrong...

Buuuuut the car may not have GG tax and the paint may be better, but is it worth the over 100K the car will likely cost with even half the options you listed. Dont forget that Porsche rapes you on options, even small ones like floor mats are ridiculous....

Jason
With the options that I have listed and more (plus the price increase), I expect the price to be around $106,000-$108,000) Yes, this is high, but you have to remember how much unnecessary stuff that I am adding. (You could easily add $10k to M for coil-overs, exhaust and wheels. My car will have optional wheels, colored matched to my exterior paint by Porsche.) Basically, I want as close to a GT3, but with more creature comforts, less price and more usable torque. A similar GT3 would be about $115,000 or more and sold at retail. I have been guaranteed a nice discount on the 911, better than the generous one I was offered on the M.

Floor mats are $140 and are a little nicer than what I have seen from BMW, imo; maybe not in reality. Yes, Porsche will rape you if you let them.

The questions we all have to answer are: is the M worth $20K+ more than the 335 and is the typical (2009) 911 C2S worth $20-22K+ more than the M. These are answers only the buyer of interest can answer, imo.

Last edited by devo; 04-29-2008 at 11:04 AM.
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      04-29-2008, 11:20 AM   #31
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^ for me, the 911S whatever $90K+ likely $100K (with DCT) is more than I wish to spend, and the M3 has the feature of real rear seats. We have 2 kids.

I have reluctance at $70K for the M3 so that's near the most I am looking to spend. especially if it were for a less useable car.
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      04-29-2008, 12:16 PM   #32
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I'll be honest

I am still 5 years away from affording a 100k car, so as much as I would love a this revamped 911 (997s for those who really know the Porsche which I can't say I do) I just can't afford it. Maybe one day I will and decide to drop the cash..........
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      04-29-2008, 12:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
This is true, but you do not have to spec out the car that heavily. There is no reason whatsoever to spec paint other than the $690 metallic paint option. Ceramics are another ridiculous option. For comparison sakes, it is fair to say the you can get into a nicely equipped 2009 C2S for $90,000-$92,000 depending on how much PAG ups the price. I just built a 2008 for $89,000 with met. paint and no Nav. It has everything else that would make it comparable to the M.

Some 335 owners have the same arguement regarding the price disparity between the M3 and the 335. Adding coil-overs and an ECU mod will bring "similar" performance on the street. I am not making this another modded 335 is as good as the M thread, because, I believe that the M is worth the extra cost. But, the same applies to the 911 for me.

To me, another $20-22k over the M, for what 2009 will bring, is worth the cost of admission. Some of the extras like, 20mm Sport Suspension, Sport Exhaust, Sport Shifter and Full Leather (this adds stitched leather to the entire dash, doors, rear seats, PCM, etc... the seats have leather standard.) are not necessary. Although, it would be like adding a different exhaust, coil-overs and short shifter to the M.

Although, I am buying a 911S, I do not have a problem saying that the M3 represents a better performance value. I just like the 911S better.
I wish everyone here on the boards had as an open mind and objectivity as you. That being said, if you forget the money, the Porsche is better, just a more focused sports car/track star. I absolutely love the M3, but a 911 is a 911.
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      05-04-2008, 06:03 PM   #34
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The MY2009 997S will get 385 hp, 310 lb/ft of torque, direct injection (resulting in better throttle response and better fuel economy.), LED tail lights, 20mm (lower) Sport Suspension and Limited Slip Differential (option), 7 speed PDK with launch control, improved Sport Chrono for better track use and a bunch of finishing touches too include a large 6.5" touch screen, I-POD and Bluetooth. Considering that the car weighs about 3131 lbs I would say that the 911S is back in the game.
I don't know if you remember our discussion about the facelift a little while ago but you said you doubted that porsche would use a 7 speed. You also doubted the facelift would be coming soon before the end of the year. Just wanted to remind you I was right you were wrong. I'm just messing around btw, can't wait to see how the facelift performs and what they bump the base price to. I think I am going to pick one up as well.
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      05-04-2008, 06:35 PM   #35
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I don't know if you remember our discussion about the facelift a little while ago but you said you doubted that porsche would use a 7 speed. You also doubted the facelift would be coming soon before the end of the year. Just wanted to remind you I was right you were wrong. I'm just messing around btw, can't wait to see how the facelift performs and what they bump the base price to. I think I am going to pick one up as well.
I will certainly admit to being wrong, but I thought that I said the 911 facelift would not occur in the MY2008 run. I also didn't expect as much of a hp increase. And, I was very surprised to see 7 speed; PDK was a sure thing though.

It's all good, you are right, I am wrong, we both get nice cars!
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      05-04-2008, 07:07 PM   #36
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As a current 997S owner, and soon to be m3 owner, all I have to say is ... I am going to stop paying attention and go back to obsessing over the M3 before I hear anything about the updated 997 that makes start to doubt myself.

I just have to remember this though - Last week when I took my Porsche in for service they gave me a KIA to drive for the week.

Ok. I feel better now. I remember one of the reasons I wanted to switch to a BMW - better service here in town.

Cheers
Beasley's dealership is almost a joke, they should move and invest more into their facilities. The service guys have been great, but it might as well be a Chevy dealership in a small town. Rarely even have common consumable parts in stock. The sales offices look like the back room of a Denny's from 1973.
Last loaner I got was a Corolla with someone laundry in the back seat, they just park the MB and Audis so you'll upgrade for about $40/day...just stupid when people are paying around $100K for a car.

BMW of Austin on the other hand I honestly believe is as good as it gets.
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      05-04-2008, 07:38 PM   #37
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Devo, if you have a solid DD, which you do, and can afford the 911S, I can definitely see it being great fun as a second car. Keep us posted...
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      05-04-2008, 07:51 PM   #38
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Devo, if you have a solid DD, which you do, and can afford the 911S, I can definitely see it being great fun as a second car. Keep us posted...
I will post pictures when I get it; just waiting for my dealer to get an allocation so I can order one. I don't expect that to happen until July.

You are so right about the DD thing. I used to drive a $5k accord as my DD to justify my other car purchases.
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