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      04-12-2008, 06:46 AM   #23
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some of you guys are missing the point because i specified PREmium... i understand if they use it on regular or something but i want to be able to buy 100% petrol somewhere. and there is no way ethanol is as explosive as gas, i don't care what some fake gov. report says.
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      04-12-2008, 07:14 AM   #24
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10% ethanol is the highest you can go.
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      04-12-2008, 07:16 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
Do NOT put this SHIT into your M3's or any other BMW.
If you want to drive in the Northeast in the winter, you don't have a choice.
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      04-12-2008, 07:19 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gum5h03 View Post
Ethanol is just a big scam anyway. Just another facade by big oil to make you think they're being "environmentally friendly" when in-fact ethanol is just as bad (if not worse) a polluter as fossil fuels. And yeah it's bad for rubber parts. They use 10% here every winter to "cut down on emissions". What a joke that is...
Oh yeah, what a joke. Maybe we should just use MTBE. Or lead. That would be way better.

Some of you people don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.
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      04-12-2008, 08:19 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
Ethanol will rot your gaskets and hoses. Period. No reason to argue. Just don't use it. Until car's have made the transition.
most CARB states only sell E10 year round. In NYC, all gas is E10, by law.
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      04-12-2008, 02:09 PM   #28
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Minnesota has had mandatory E10 for over a decade now in all grades of gasoline. I have never heard of an issue on a modern car that gets regular use. Just think if 1,000,000 cars in the midwest have been using it for 10,000 miles per year. Over the last 10 years that's 100 Billion miles of driving on E10, and still these issues you guys think are there, just aren't. It's safe.

The temperatures in the state range from -60F to 114F, and again, no issues.

Now I have heard of it making old cars runs poorly (Mid 1970s and earlier) as well as lawn equipment; small engines on lawn movers, snowblowers, etc... Also, apparently the ethanol breaks down the fuel faster, so it can't be stored for long periods like pure gasoline can before it starts to break down.
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      04-12-2008, 02:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewAZ View Post
First it has nothing to do with the engine at all.. If you use E85 which is 85% ethanol in a none ethanol car the fuel lines will deteriorate over time just like leaving barcardi 151 in a plastic cup. The only modification needed to run E85 is to change out the fuel lines.

Some Mercedes cars/suv come from the factor ready to run E85 similar to Chevy, Ford, GM, Mazda, Nissan.

If 10% was unsafe they would not sell BMWs in my state, since its been the law for quite some time that we have to run 10%.
That's not at all true. It may not have a lot to do with the engine becuase the basics are still the same, you feed it into the cylinder, then spark it, and it ignites. However, for one, you need bigger injectors or some kits can plug into your injectors to make them spray more. Either way, you need more E85 sprayed in than you need for gas.

Plus, there is more to worry about than just fuel lines. There are a lot of parts that SHOULD be changed for the long term running of E85. Perhaps they wont break down anytime soon, but over time they may. Some cars may even need a different gas tank as part of the conversion depending on what materials they are made with.

It's not an incredibly hard process to convert a car, as you say, but it's not as cut and dry as you may think.
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      04-12-2008, 03:31 PM   #30
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The real issue is this (I'm a closet petrochemical engineer):
Ethanol has a much higher octane level than regular gasoline so a refinery can run their cracks for a slightly lower octane level of gasoline (one refinery manager recently told me they were running for 84 instead of 87) and then blend in 10% ethanol to take the octane level up to where it should be. This allows them to obtain a bit more distillate (jet fuel to you) and other valuable byproducts from the cracked barrel. But there's a catch, ethanol is much less fuel efficient than normal gasoline so you will get less MPG with E10 than non-E10 gasoline!
However because our federal govt wants to help the farmer (who's getting rich now but admittedly had many many tough years in the 80s and 90s); this difference in MPG is tolerated and really unadvertised.
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      04-12-2008, 03:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhan View Post

anyway, ethanol is cheaper...MIGHT be cleaner ...
Ethanol is about the exact same price as regular unleaded right now. It's not cheaper on its own, but is cheaper when blended with 84.
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      04-12-2008, 04:49 PM   #32
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I was using Sunoco 94 for the first 5 months I had my car; started having rough idles. It's a common issue with e46 M's too. For reference, Sunoco 94 uses ~10-12% ethanol. I swtiched to Shell 91 (0% ethanol here in Ontario), idle issues went away on the first tank. Maybe I am uneducated, but my experience with high ethanol gas doesn't exactly make me feel confident about using it.

(I am not saying it's not safe, I am saying that in my car and quite a few e46 M3/Mcoupes, people had rough idle/long cranks while using 10% ethanol gas, and don't with 0% ethanol gas).
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      04-12-2008, 04:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWI6 View Post
some of you guys are missing the point because i specified PREmium... i understand if they use it on regular or something but i want to be able to buy 100% petrol somewhere. and there is no way ethanol is as explosive as gas, i don't care what some fake gov. report says.
I dont think you understand.... A lot of states by LAW BY LAW read it again BY LAW MUST HAVE yes MUST HAVE 10% in ALL GAS SOLD.

ITS NOT GOING TO HURT YOUR CAR IN ANYWAY, ITS BEEN THIS WAY FOR YEARS AND YEARS. I have yet to hear of any issues with running 10%, you dont see all the expensive cars in AZ or other states breaking down because of it.


And I dont get what you mean by explosive? By its nature gas is not that explosive since you want compression without premature ignition..

A quick google search will tell you that over 90% of gas sold today is has 10% ethanol.
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      04-12-2008, 05:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
Ethanol will rot your gaskets and hoses. Period. No reason to argue. Just don't use it. Until car's have made the transition.
Look at the post above me.. AZ and other states have had it by law for years that gas has to be 10% ethanol.. Its does no harm at all.
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      04-13-2008, 09:19 AM   #35
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On average gasoline sold in the USA in 1Q2008 was 7.8% ethanol (i.e. about 3/4 was E10).
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      04-13-2008, 09:21 AM   #36
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Damn i should start growing corn or investing in corn...
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      04-13-2008, 05:44 PM   #37
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hehe i already have
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      04-14-2008, 09:11 AM   #38
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Ethanol IS a joke! It takes as much energy to produce it as it gives off. It also make our gas more expensive because of the extra process during refinery. It is an inefficient fuel, and it makes the price of food go up as well.
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      04-14-2008, 11:35 AM   #39
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All gasoline has to have an “oxygenate” to raise the octane number of the fuel that in most cases was up to 7.5% MTBE – Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether – (a highly toxic and cancerous fossil fuel by-product). Today, in most cases at least, gasoline uses ethanol as an oxygenate to increase its octane rating w/o the environmental issues. 10% ethanol is simply a oxiginate that improves the octane rating of your gasoline (since ethanol has a rating of about 104). Nothing to fuzz about as it improves you gasoline at no real cost to you. I should add that most gasoline in the USA have used around 5% ethanol for several years now.
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      04-14-2008, 11:36 AM   #40
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Cheveron is way behind by the way!!! Your engine cannot only take that % ethanol easily, but will improve fuel combustion and increase the anti-knock capacity at the same time.
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      04-16-2008, 06:22 PM   #41
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welcome to 2006?
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      04-16-2008, 10:22 PM   #42
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      04-21-2008, 03:49 AM   #43
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In Ontario I have been using Sunoco's Ultra94 exclusively for around 13 years now. In the Toronto area, they started adding EtOH to Ultra94 around the mid to late 90's and I haven't had any problems with their fuel. Granted one does get less mileage from gas + EtOH blends because pure EtOH has around 1/3 less energy per litre than plain gas, but EtOH damaging cars isn't really an issue.
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