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      04-12-2008, 04:36 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hada318i View Post
So??? Laguna Blue is going to be a custom color instead of a standard color?
Yes, it's apparently available through the "priority one" order system.
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      04-12-2008, 04:58 PM   #90
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As for the MDM that (IMO) is totally in the technology package to get people to buy technology package. There is a button for the stability control that could be off/no or MDM.--------------- unless maybe MDM requires EDC (for example) to function which does not seem to be the case since wouldn't they it have been said that way?
Yeah, that's how DSC is on the 3 series. You can click it once to go into DTC mode which is the less intrusive version of DSC. Its probably not as good or "hands-off" as MDM mode but its a similar idea. Then, if you hold the button down for a few seconds, DSC is disabled entirely. No reason they could not have done that same type of thing for the M3.

I'm pretty sure EDC is not required for MDM mode because I am believe you can option an M3 without EDC but with MDrive in Europe and elsewhere. I think there's even a forum member with a car like that. Nice thing about MDM is that potentially it could be unlocked via aftermarket solution. Sport-Plus throttle too probably, and maybe even the Sport steering. The only problem to solve would be the interface to enable them. Could be adding a new button (something for the empty spots below the radio) or somehow use an existing one. With a little more ingenuity, an aftermarket MDrive equivalent could even be created I think. This would probably take a lot of R&D though and might end up costing too much to be worthwhile.

But for CA, it'd be nearly impossible to add after the fact. Even if you could somehow get all the right parts, installing them would be a major, major undertaking and certainly be cost prohibitive.
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      04-12-2008, 05:35 PM   #91
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Will Laguna Blue be offered next year to the US via individual as well?
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      04-12-2008, 05:36 PM   #92
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Completely unknown at this point, but individual is usually a no-go at this point. LSB can be ordered though, but with a very nice and high price...
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      04-12-2008, 05:59 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by southlight View Post
So you say there should be no information on the real shift times because that gave the DCT not enough credit?


Best regards, south
No, that's not my point at all. My point was that it is such a different animal, comparing shift times is like comparing apples and oranges. Definining the exact parameters you want to use to measure shift time is easy in a conventional manual or SMG. With the DCT, it's not so clear-cut, so I'm just not sure "shift time" can be a relevant comparison.
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      04-12-2008, 06:20 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenwelch View Post
It might feel as though there is "never a point where there is zero torque", but there must be a very small amount of time that both gear ratios are NOT connected to the engine. If you are beginning to disengage the clutch for one gear ratio while the next gear ratio is being engaged there is only one acceptable option...they cannot be connected to the engine at the same time.

If two gear ratios are connected at the same time (shift overlap) then the clutches must slip which causes unnecessary wear and heat. If both ratios are actually connected (engaged) at the same time then the output shaft (drive shaft) will be locked and cause the drive wheels to lock (like having an automatic trans. car in Park). If the vehicle is moving when the driveshaft locks the tires will chirp (skid) or the weakest power train link will break. Manual transmissions vehicles use a shift interlock to prevent two gear ratios from being selected at the same time. Automatic transmission vehicles have a torque converter that allows slippage.

Bottom line: You must have some time when both gears are not engaged (connected) to the engine. BMW likely designed in some “zero torque time” to prevent M-DCT owners from have early clutch failures. The wet clutch design with plenty of cooling should help also.
When it is upshifting from a lower gear to a higher gear, under normal cirucmstances, the higher gear is alread selected for the second clutch and input shaft. As the first clutch starts to disengage, the second clutch is already starting to engage. We're talking milliseconds here so I don't see that as undo wear on the clutches. That's what clutches are for. So, depending on the aggresivness of the software, there absolutely can be a shift where torque applied to the wheels never actually drops all the way to zero.
For the sake of argument, lets say there was a malfuction and both clutches fully engaged. They would both be turning in the same direction, just 1500 rpm (give or take) different. One or both clutches would then be slipping that much and yes, wear out very quickly, but the wheels aren't going to lock up.

Last edited by MysticBlue; 04-12-2008 at 09:23 PM.
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      04-12-2008, 08:42 PM   #95
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Thanks for posting all the info! It is also good to know that BMW NA checks out the board too. Hopefully they will incorporate a lot of our feedback into production... Thanks again for typing all of that up!
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      04-12-2008, 08:43 PM   #96
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I love those reflectors, too! I grew up in Europe and -as a child- used to paint orange and red side reflectors onto car mag photos. I guess we could form an "orange reflector club"...

Thanks for your awesome work skierman64, much appreciated!

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      04-12-2008, 08:47 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneginee View Post
"The E92 seat has at least 6-8 motors in it, making it quite a heavy seat. The front seats alone may add 100lbs to the E92."

Woa. One mod that comes to mind is to lock the seats in your prefered position then remove the motors. I am sure these motors are quite heavy. Anyone else thought the same ?
Hmmm...may be much easier just to buy a different seat. You would save weight by removing the motors, but still, the rest of the seat is still pretty heavy I bet. If you bought more of a racing seat (but maybe not a full-on racing shell), you would save LOTS of weight and it would still be pretty comfy. Removing the motors sounds like a nightmare. But if you want to go for it, by all means, have at it!
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      04-12-2008, 09:01 PM   #98
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Thanks for the questions and answers. Good info!
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      04-12-2008, 09:41 PM   #99
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Thank you very much or answering me by the way great post.
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      04-12-2008, 10:51 PM   #100
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Here's the link to the videos of the presentation by Mr. Koch.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133812
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      04-12-2008, 10:53 PM   #101
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I wonder how much the new 09 M3 will differ from the 08? I'm sure it still be an awesome ultimate machine.... Thanks for the post.....
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      04-13-2008, 11:29 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
When it is upshifting from a lower gear to a higher gear, under normal cirucmstances, the higher gear is alread selected for the second clutch and input shaft. As the first clutch starts to disengage, the second clutch is already starting to engage. We're talking milliseconds here so I don't see that as undo wear on the clutches. That's what clutches are for. So, depending on the aggresivness of the software, there absolutely can be a shift where torque applied to the wheels never actually drops all the way to zero.
For the sake of argument, lets say there was a malfuction and both clutches fully engaged. They would both be turning in the same direction, just 1500 rpm (give or take) different. One or both clutches would then be slipping that much and yes, wear out very quickly, but the wheels aren't going to lock up.
Guys, this issue has been beaten to death, and if you do a search on DCT shift times, you'll find some interesting discussions. Look here for instance:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ft+time&page=6
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      04-13-2008, 11:30 AM   #103
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Larry Koch will be at a meeting this Wednesday. I can try to ask some additional questions at the end.
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      04-13-2008, 11:40 AM   #104
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Larry Koch will be at a meeting this Wednesday. I can try to ask some additional questions at the end.

He is a marketing guy and the questions that are unanswered are technical.

Can you get him to commit to a follow up?

Lucid can you please ask the following:
  1. Is it true BMW will not make a supercar for the foreseeable future?
  2. Is there a power bump for the 335i in 2009 or 2010?
  3. Will there be BMW Performance parts for ///M cars (M3 / M5 / M6)?
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      04-13-2008, 01:13 PM   #105
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Skierman64, great job with the write up. Since I was there with you, I can say that you accurately conveyed Mr. Koch's answers. We all appreciate the time it took you to type all of the answers for us. Thanks again!
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      04-13-2008, 01:22 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
He is a marketing guy and the questions that are unanswered are technical.

Can you get him to commit to a follow up?

Lucid can you please ask the following:
  1. Is it true BMW will not make a supercar for the foreseeable future?
  2. Is there a power bump for the 335i in 2009 or 2010?
  3. Will there be BMW Performance parts for ///M cars (M3 / M5 / M6)?
T-Bone,

I can practially guarantee you won't get answers to questions #1 or #2. He can't talk about future products or changes unless the info has already been release by BMW AG or BMW NA.

As far as question #3, he mentioned that the performance parts are currently aimed at the E46 and E9x 328 and 335. But he didn't know what future products are in development for the E9xM. Hopefully he can expand on his answer he gave the meeting I attended.
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      04-13-2008, 01:24 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeM3 View Post
Skierman64, great job with the write up. Since I was there with you, I can say that you accurately conveyed Mr. Koch's answers. We all appreciate the time it took you to type all of the answers for us. Thanks again!
Awesome and all the others who have said thanks. My reply is, you're welcome and it's truly my pleasure to contribute to the forum in a meaningful way. There are a lot of good contributers here, I'm happy to do my part.
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      04-13-2008, 03:43 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
T-Bone,

I can practially guarantee you won't get answers to questions #1 or #2. He can't talk about future products or changes unless the info has already been release by BMW AG or BMW NA.

As far as question #3, he mentioned that the performance parts are currently aimed at the E46 and E9x 328 and 335. But he didn't know what future products are in development for the E9xM. Hopefully he can expand on his answer he gave the meeting I attended.
Always worth asking.... Even non-answers can provide insight.
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      04-13-2008, 03:46 PM   #109
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Always worth asking.... Even non-answers can provide insight.
The answer referring to the CSL was a such one.


Best regards, south
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      04-13-2008, 03:49 PM   #110
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T-Bone,

I can practially guarantee you won't get answers to questions #1 or #2. He can't talk about future products or changes unless the info has already been release by BMW AG or BMW NA.

As far as question #3, he mentioned that the performance parts are currently aimed at the E46 and E9x 328 and 335. But he didn't know what future products are in development for the E9xM. Hopefully he can expand on his answer he gave the meeting I attended.
I will follow up on the 3rd question to see if he can be more specific. I will try to bring up the 1st and 2nd as well, but I don't expect answers on those really.
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