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      03-29-2008, 12:49 AM   #2091
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Originally Posted by advancedlogic View Post
...but as stated previously, quite doubtful considering Ken's 5 year Ebay history, the 145 verifiably smooth transactions...
I've seen this posted a couple times but it really holds little merit. The fact that someone bought/sold successfully on ebay in the past means very little. There's really very little at stake with regard to the account and it isn't an accurate representation of his ability to complete the transaction.
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      03-29-2008, 12:58 AM   #2092
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Originally Posted by Rob_K View Post
I've seen this posted a couple times but it really holds little merit. The fact that someone bought/sold successfully on ebay in the past means very little. There's really very little at stake with regard to the account and it isn't an accurate representation of his ability to complete the transaction.
I disagree. His actions are memorialized in those transactions. His intention was to purchase/lease the car. His intention was to complete the transaction, but the DEALER reneged (?sp) not Ken.

While it is true that there is little at stake if he can't pay...but there would have been some sign of it before...just like there was with the DEALER...
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      03-29-2008, 01:05 AM   #2093
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Originally Posted by ideliver View Post
I disagree. His actions are memorialized in those transactions. His intention was to purchase/lease the car. His intention was to complete the transaction, but the DEALER reneged (?sp) not Ken.

While it is true that there is little at stake if he can't pay...but there would have been some sign of it before...just like there was with the DEALER...
Again, his bidding/selling history is 100% meaningless. It's true the dealer tried to back out of the deal claiming "mistake" but that's pretty much the end of the story. Ken has nothing at stake in any of this. Period.
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      03-29-2008, 01:14 AM   #2094
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Originally Posted by Rob_K View Post
Again, his bidding/selling history is 100% meaningless. It's true the dealer tried to back out of the deal claiming "mistake" but that's pretty much the end of the story. Ken has nothing at stake in any of this. Period.
That depends on perception. Considering the ebay model is based on the giving and receipt of feedback as a measure of transaction experience, and to build user reputation within said model, and considering both parties chosen use of such model to conduct business, then his bidding/selling history has 100% meaning as an ebay guage to his reputation and ability.

Considering the amount of time, energy, expense and aggravation Ken may experienced, coupled with the potential loss of trust and faith in a well-used system of purchase and the like, I'd venture to guess that Ken has much more at stake than you or I. That's my personal take on what has transpired to-date.

Last edited by advancedlogic; 03-29-2008 at 01:16 AM. Reason: struck "stake" for "take" as intended
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      03-29-2008, 01:20 AM   #2095
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> every other person that has posted in this thread(and there have been
> many) who is from the Lincoln Nebraska area has noted how they do NOT
> like Husker. Funny, isn't it?

Incorrect. There have been a few locals stand-up for Fil or Husker. Their opinions were, ummm, unpopular. This isn't exactly a welcoming place. As Mike M so aptly opined, "Tough crowd."
Other than Jeff himself, please point me to the post numbers of these "few locals" typically, in slang:

A couple = 2
A few = 3 or 4


If you can find 4, I stand corrected. Thanks!
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      03-29-2008, 01:27 AM   #2096
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Originally Posted by BMW M5 Power View Post
You are so correct in that statement rough crowd. After 10 years in the military, I have grown a very thick skin and learned to consider the source. The only thing about being questioned is, you have to really care about what the people are saying or questioning you about. Believe me, anyone who knows me, knows the situation, knows I am not blowing smoke or fabricating things. To the best of my knowledge and experience, that is what I am passing along. And really, if people don't choose to share my position, which I assure you is neutral, fine. They can't cancel my Birthday!!!!
Jeff
and the problem is...we don't know you from dave or joe or <insert name here>. What we DO know is all the people who've mentioned what a bad dealership that is and that you know Fil personally and seem to be alluding to the fact that he along with everyone else at BMW of Lincoln are innocent fawns caught up in the tiger's fangs. The rest of us see the opposite. And BMW NA is doing no better. They make and distribute the cars, they sponsor all the CCA events, but take no interest in the PRIMARY distribution method of their product!!! WTF? Who ever heard of such a policy??? ludicrous.

Dealerships are NOT the victim. And if what you say is true and the dealer has gotten so many walk-ins from this event, then once again(and by your own admission) they are profiting while the guy who was getting screwed is paying for a lawyer to aid him in a case against a multi-billion dollar company, certainly won't end up spending just $60K to get this car...
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      03-29-2008, 01:48 AM   #2097
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Because I have "a lot of time on my hands," I decided to just see what i can find on Ken and from what i have found is he is an Information Systems Manager for a multinational company. I don't think he's sitting here going eh, i don't know if i can afford this car. He's in California so the assumption is that he's making more then 6 figures a year.
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      03-29-2008, 01:49 AM   #2098
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Wow I just hope Ken gets his car soon so we can go back to talkin normal stuff about M3's and mods!

Seriously all parties need to do the right thing here and we need to leave them alone sort of to do it before we mess up dude's deal and chances of getting the car.
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      03-29-2008, 02:20 AM   #2099
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seriously? 103 pages? really? really? why does ken not have his car. this is ridiculous
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      03-29-2008, 02:49 AM   #2100
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seriously? 103 pages? really? really? why does ken not have his car. this is ridiculous
Since there are serious litigation issues at play, I can only surmise that perhap's Ken's legal counsel has chosen to proceed at a pace that serves Ken's interests, should the matter reach a court of law. My opinion to all is to maintain support and withhold further judgement until the next business day (Monday). While the typical car buying experience can take place 7 days a week, matters of law requiring counsel are typically a Monday through Friday affair where attorney negotioations are concerned.

I opine that there is the very real chance that Ken may not be speaking until negotiations resume with counsel. Do not let the preceeding elude you, or this community. Continue to show your support through constructive posts and the like, but I'd advise against any unsolicited attempts to contact, harass, berate, belittle, and defame any individual or entity while the spector of litigation hangs. It isn't difficult to understand why this is important.
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      03-29-2008, 03:06 AM   #2101
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Originally Posted by Totally 80's View Post
Rob, As a reader since Autoblog first linked up... Can I take your ideas one step further and add that Tuesday is April Fools Day?! Have we been had?

The timing is just too obvious and the story is just getting too bizarre.

If I'm right, remember you heard it here first!

Did everyone forget he is a Lexus IS owner.

This could be a sick Lexus, FU BMW joke.



J/K - I really have no doubts at all this is real.

You think someone made a fake Husker auction and it all went from there. Yeah right.
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      03-29-2008, 03:07 AM   #2102
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Originally Posted by DCLeopard91 View Post
And BMW NA is doing no better. They make and distribute the cars, they sponsor all the CCA events, but take no interest in the PRIMARY distribution method of their product!!! WTF? Who ever heard of such a policy???
Every car maker works this way. The dealer is a franchise, they are expected to maintain the facade that the manufacturer expects but when it comes to business the car manufacturer is not responsible for what the dealer does.
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      03-29-2008, 03:16 AM   #2103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advancedlogic View Post
I opine that there is the very real chance that Ken may not be speaking until negotiations resume with counsel. Do not let the preceeding elude you, or this community. Continue to show your support through constructive posts and the like, but I'd advise against any unsolicited attempts to contact, harass, berate, belittle, and defame any individual or entity while the spector of litigation hangs. It isn't difficult to understand why this is important.
Agreed. We all need to wait until after Monday, when presumably someone involved will be able to publicly announce something. Everything I've read about people calling and harassing the dealership employees, their families (WTF!), etc. is not cool in the extreme. We cannot assume that anything either side is saying is the objective truth. As for the situation itself, all we can do is weigh the information given to us, and venture speculation and opinion on same.

As complex as this has become, I'm still trying to encapsulate the core of the problem. It seems to me like it went something like this:

1. Ken wins bid on car for $60,000
Question: did he have the ability to pay within 72 at the time of the bid?

2. Dealer calls Ken up and says "We made a mistake, we can't sell you the car for that amount, but we can sell it to you for x dollars more."

3. Ken says "No, I want it for $60,000."
Question: did the dealership ever agree to sell Ken the car for $60,000?

Follow-up question: did Ken and the dealership ever agree on a price? - if so, then the dealer would be entitled to a down payment, and some kind of legal promise to pay within 72 hours (usually some sort of letter from the finance company).

My experience has been that the dealership may try to hard-sell you on using their own financing, but that they generally don't have a problem with third party payment, and third party payments are perfectly common. Also, once the deal is made, the dealership gets the payment from the finance company for the full amount of the car's price in the form of a check or cashier's check. Then, the buyer and the finance company are the ones with an ongoing business arrangement, and the dealer is basically done. Whether the auto loan is in the form of a lease or a purchase is irrelevant to the dealership, and they shouldn't care one way or the other.
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      03-29-2008, 03:18 AM   #2104
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Where is Dooma? Have they told him to be quiet? Is the libel suit already in play? Is this entire thing a hoax? Is Dooma, and maybe countless others playing us to pay the piper?

Since there are serious litigation issues at play, I can only surmise that perhap's Ken's legal counsel has chosen to proceed at a pace that serves Ken's interests, should the matter reach a court of law. My opinion to all is to maintain support and withhold further judgement until the next business day (Monday). While the typical car buying experience can take place 7 days a week, matters of law requiring counsel are typically a Monday through Friday affair where attorney negotioations are concerned.

I opine that there is the very real chance that Ken may not be speaking until negotiations resume with counsel. Do not let the preceeding elude you, or this community. Continue to show your support through constructive posts and the like, but I'd advise against any unsolicited attempts to contact, harass, berate, belittle, and defame any individual or entity while the spector of litigation hangs. It isn't difficult to understand why this is important.
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      03-29-2008, 03:21 AM   #2105
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All,

I think we should heed the words of AdvancedLogic.
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      03-29-2008, 03:26 AM   #2106
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Is this really bigger than the internet gambling pedophile on the NSX forum a few months ago?
I have had so many crappy Ebay experiences as an honest buyer lately I am not surprised at any of this. Unless Husker was also running a cat house and the ebay auction was for something other than what we think, maybe the buyer couldn't "finish the transaction"....
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      03-29-2008, 03:38 AM   #2107
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Agreed. We all need to wait until after Monday, when presumably someone involved will be able to publicly announce something. Everything I've read about people calling and harassing the dealership employees, their families (WTF!), etc. is not cool in the extreme. We cannot assume that anything either side is saying is the objective truth. As for the situation itself, all we can do is weigh the information given to us, and venture speculation and opinion on same.
+1

As complex as this has become, I'm still trying to encapsulate the core of the problem. It seems to me like it went something like this:

1. Ken wins bid on car for $60,000
Question: did he have the ability to pay within 72 at the time of the bid?
It has been stated that payment was secured and available, and an attempt to pay was made, yet refused


2. Dealer calls Ken up and says "We made a mistake, we can't sell you the car for that amount, but we can sell it to you for x dollars more."
Mistakes within a live auction relm should be corrected before end-of-auction. In an auction, the seller has the responsibility to ensure the accuracy of goods sold. Tools for editiing and review exists to assist in this endeavor. Auction postings must be reviewed and agreed to before posting on e-bay. While mistakes can happen, if such happens after auction close, the buyer may legally be entitled to the winnings. Laws can change from state-to-state, so verification within your jurisdiction is a must.

3. Ken says "No, I want it for $60,000."
Question: did the dealership ever agree to sell Ken the car for $60,000?

Follow-up question: did Ken and the dealership ever agree on a price? - if so, then the dealer would be entitled to a down payment, and some kind of legal promise to pay within 72 hours (usually some sort of letter from the finance company).
Both questions may have been answered via the format of the sale. Both parties chose to conduct business on an online auction site. At the close of bidding, the agreed-upon cost is listed within the auction, as set forth by the creater of said page. In summary, I opine that the agreement requirement was satisfied, therefore the agreement to sell at $60,000 was granted at the end-of-auction listed price, $60K.

My experience has been that the dealership may try to hard-sell you on using their own financing, but that they generally don't have a problem with third party payment, and third party payments are perfectly common. Also, once the deal is made, the dealership gets the payment from the finance company for the full amount of the car's price in the form of a check or cashier's check. Then, the buyer and the finance company are the ones with an ongoing business arrangement, and the dealer is basically done. Whether the auto loan is in the form of a lease or a purchase is irrelevant to the dealership, and they shouldn't care one way or the other.
-A

Last edited by advancedlogic; 03-29-2008 at 03:50 AM. Reason: html formatting
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      03-29-2008, 03:43 AM   #2108
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I support Dooma, but if in fact he hasn't sent payment then I'd say it's quit. I mean really... Although I feel that the dealership didn't take care of the costomer from the start... they have tried to make things right and the only thing holding back the "seal the deal" is Dooma. For what reason? I don't know. He was given chances to purchase from another dealership. But he stuck to his gun. And now? Where oh where are you?
From my prior post:
Official statements have set C.O.B. Monday as the cutoff date. Now this is purely speculatory on my part, but perhaps then we may here something. Keep in mind that there are very real lives involved with very real consequences if law isn't followed to the "T".

Last edited by advancedlogic; 03-29-2008 at 03:44 AM. Reason: strike argumentative text unrelated to reply
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      03-29-2008, 03:58 AM   #2109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advancedlogic View Post
Follow-up question: did Ken and the dealership ever agree on a price? - if so, then the dealer would be entitled to a down payment, and some kind of legal promise to pay within 72 hours (usually some sort of letter from the finance company).

Both questions may have been answered via the format of the sale. Both parties chose to conduct business on an online auction site. At the close of bidding, the agreed-upon cost is listed within the auction, as set forth by the creater of said page. In summary, I opine that the agreement requirement was satisfied, therefore the agreement to sell at $60,000 was granted at the end-of-auction listed price, $60K.
I agree that the auction itself should be considered to be an agreement between both parties on the sale price of the car, but what I'm asking here is more along the lines of "After the dealership stated that the auction was a mistake and that they would not honor the deal at those terms, did they offer another price for the car and did Ken agree to pay that price?"
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      03-29-2008, 04:00 AM   #2110
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so now everyone is slowly trying to gang up on Dooma just because he hasn't posted progress? tough crowd!
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      03-29-2008, 04:02 AM   #2111
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so now everyone is slowly trying to gang up on Dooma just because he hasn't posted progress? tough crowd!
Not at all. I'm just trying to take a step back and reduce 104 pages of posts to its essentials, and locate the basic point of contention. And, as advancedlogic already said, Dooma is probably keeping his mouth shut on the advice of his counsel, which is smart.
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      03-29-2008, 04:35 AM   #2112
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Laszlo, are all the double posts really necessary?

And has there been an update? I really can't read through another 15 pages.
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