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View Poll Results: Which car would owned who? new M3 or IS-F
4.0 liter V8 414 HP 295 lb-ft torque BMW e90/92 M3 250 72.46%
5.0-liter V8 416 HP 371 lb-ft torque Lexus IS-F 46 13.33%
Just the same- depends on the driver 49 14.20%
Voters: 345. You may not vote on this poll

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      03-25-2008, 09:27 PM   #1
ase2dais
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Would would owned who? e90/2 M3 or IS-F

I was surprisingly given a surprise test drive, by Lindsey Lexus of Alexandria,
of an IS-F today

With the price difference of 9k and specs of 5.0-liter V8 416 hp and 371 lb-ft torque and 8-Speed Sport Direct-Shifter makes me think.

I guess they wanted to make m a IS-F believer.

But I Really Really test drove this IS-F match harder than the /M, and the CA even did donuts and we left a large of smoke clouds behind w/c make me sick to me stomach plus the smell of burn tires. Im starting to question my loyalty


Which car do you think will take who ? our very beloved new M3 or IS-F

Last edited by ase2dais; 03-25-2008 at 09:47 PM.
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      03-25-2008, 09:29 PM   #2
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You're looking for an honest answer on a M3 Forum?
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      03-25-2008, 09:38 PM   #3
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I guess the answer from you is clear and take it as the IS-F


Last edited by ase2dais; 03-30-2008 at 09:37 PM.
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      03-25-2008, 09:47 PM   #4
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I have test driven both and have decided the price premium is worth it for the M3. I like how the M3 looks better (hate the silver interior of the Lexus), am getting M-DCT which I think will be better than the Lexus auto, and felt that the M3 was more aggressive and sporty. They are both great cars but the M3 was better. It's a personal decision as to whether the cost difference is worth it. Having had both BMW and Lexus cars in the past, the BMW's were always more fun to drive.
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      03-25-2008, 10:12 PM   #5
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I have the previous generation is300 right now and have test driven the ISF but for me it's not the speed but how you arrive at it. 8 speed paddle shift is great but it's not like the feel of a clutch and a manual. The characters of the two cars are different and for me the m3 has been all that I've wanted, so the choice for me is clear.
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      03-26-2008, 02:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
With the price difference of 9k and specs ......
they could badge it a Toyota and knock off another 9 grand!

Last edited by sayemthree; 03-26-2008 at 10:32 PM.
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      03-26-2008, 02:49 PM   #7
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Depends on the driver and depends on what type of race. From a roll or 1/4 mile i'd say it's a toss up. On a course track, we've all seen the video from Japan and other videos as well on how the M3 handles so well. Now in regards to which one would i choose in terms of looks, if it's between the M3 coupe and the ISF, hands down the M3 coupe. But i'm really biased towards coupe, especially the e92, it's really a beautiful design. But between the e90 M3 sedan and the ISF, hands down the ISF.

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      03-26-2008, 03:40 PM   #8
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i gotta drive both the new m3 and the is-f.
the market is heating up mid 50-65k market segment.
Will it tempt me to sell my car? hmmmm.
something to think about, until then time to test drive.

r
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      03-26-2008, 10:33 PM   #9
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i dont care what the ISF drives like - in my mind its still a toyota and an ugly one at that.
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      03-27-2008, 01:47 AM   #10
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meh, i say its too early to tell
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      03-27-2008, 02:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f=ma View Post
meh, i say its too early to tell


you cant tell the diff between a BMW and a Camry?
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      03-27-2008, 09:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
you cant tell the diff between a BMW and a Camry?
Those of us who are less image-conscious may not give a damn about the badge on the car, but are more interested in how it performs.

That said, there's an interesting comparison test in the current C & D regarding these two cars. The BMW won by a pretty fair margin, but it seems that it boiled down to the Munich guys finely honing the performance details better than the Toyota guys did. That actually tends to make sense, since Toyota has been more or less out of the hot-damn performance business since the late, lamented TT Supra of the early '90s, and this is their first effort since then.

The comparison was interesting to me because it reversed my preconceived notions about how these cars would perform. In an acceleration contest, I'd expect the IS-F to have the low-end advantage, but in fact the M3 blew away the Toyota off the line, and the Toyota was very slightly quicker after that, with a one-mph trap speed advantage in the quarter mile.

This reinforced my conviction that the M3 really does have a hell of an engine. We know it's a charger on the right-hand side of the tach, but with a 50-70 mph top gear time of 5.8 seconds, it makes the absolute most of its torque curve as well.

Yeah, I know I'm the only guy on any given 'net forum that thinks this is important, but all of us enjoy top gear response when we're actually behind the wheel.

All in all, the IS-F is a very credible first effort, and I hope there'll be more to come.

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      03-27-2008, 12:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
...
Yeah, I know I'm the only guy on any given 'net forum that thinks this is important, but all of us enjoy top gear response when we're actually behind the wheel.

All in all, the IS-F is a very credible first effort, and I hope there'll be more to come.
I agree strongly with both of these points Bruce. If you really want the best numbers shift to the right gear, but that does not at all mean the numbers when not shifting are unimportant. They definitely contribute to our experience and evaluation of a car...whether or not we admit it.

If Toyota is committed to improving the IS-F the next one is going to really be something.
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      03-27-2008, 12:51 PM   #14
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All you have to do is look at the tail pipes on the IS-F to know the answer. WTF were they thinking? lol
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      03-27-2008, 01:55 PM   #15
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I test drove the IS-F yesterday. I think it is an excellent car and a very good value. However, it is clear that the M3, which I have also driven is in a league of its own.

My wife has a Toyota Sienna Limited- The Navi, / Review Camera etc are practically the same in both cars. These are great systems. However, the point is that the car still has the feel of a Toyota. The car was fast but the engine sounded like it was related to a 5.0 American V8. The sound on the M3sounds like its a cousin of the Ferrari V8.

The ISF handled well and looks much better in real life. MUCH BETTER. However, I like the M3 looks more Handling goes to M3 hands down.

The transmission did very well and shifts very quickly and smoothly.

Some of the plastic trim looked plain cheap- and can probably be found in the corolla as well.

The exhaust looksOK, however, its going to look pretty stupid in the winter when the fumes are visiblle and not coming out of the tail pipes.

In the end, you get what you pay for, there is a reason the M is 10-15K more.

For those that care, the M3 is a car that most recognize and admire. Tell a co-worker you have an M and they'll say wow that's cool. tell them you have and ISF and they'll say WTF is that, never heard of it.

Now more than ever, I'm convinced that the M is the car for me. From a performance standpoint, the ISF failed to give me the rush the M gave me.
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      03-27-2008, 02:04 PM   #16
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The IS-F and the F versions will be a force to reckon with in the future, of this there is little doubt. Toyota are atfer all the richest/biggest car manufacturer in the world which does have the deep pockets to make the best car in the respective classes, all that is required is the will to make it so.
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      03-27-2008, 11:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT3 Tim View Post
All you have to do is look at the tail pipes on the IS-F to know the answer. WTF were they thinking? lol

how about the stupid F figure on the front fender flap? uggggh!!!

I dont care about the badge. I do care about engineering, history and heritage, all of which the M3 has and Lexus does not. Japanese engineers are awesome....at copying others work. Japanese engineers ride the train to work, BMW engineers take the autobahn. The M3 is the real thing. The Lexus brand Toyota is a wanna be.

Its good BMW has competition to keep them on their toes and keep them honest, however I would never, never , ever buy the IS-F.
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      03-27-2008, 11:39 PM   #18
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I think that C&D comparo is a little botched or something is up with the 0-60 times. That 4.1 for the M3 sedan seems to be an outlier IMO. Just look at the 5-60 start. I'm thinking the 4.1 times was a PERFECT one in a 100 launch at the perfect probably high RPM easing the clutch in (burning the clutch) type of launch. They kind of launch you will RARELY get unless your last name is Force or something. Anyways, I think the two cars are more similar than even that test shows. I truly believe the IS-F has the more powerful engine despite the lower power:weight ratio. Look at how it starts to catch up and actually goes faster - on a highway, the IS-F will slowly walk an M3. The higher rpm of the M3 will give better throttle modulation and control (great for track) but for a simple drag race or a straight line race in the HWY, the IS-F wins vs the 6 speed MANUAL M3 (DCT is another story). In the twisties, I know the M3 wins - but keep in mind that they are not using identical tires. The IS-F weighs more and is using a skinnier PS2 tire. Are you guys really surprised that the M3 ended up putting up higher numbers in the traction department? I bet if you stuck the RE070 from the GT-R on the IS-F, you'd see a different result. They complain of the brakes being too on/off but IMO, the 6 piston Brembo brakes in the front have NEVER faded in any comparo, test, etc. while the 1 piston M3 brakes have. I don't understand why even the 135 has 6piston while the m3 has single piston. What the heck was BMW thinking there?

Why didn't the Lexus guys use fatter tires? I'm suspecting that they were trying to sneak into the NO gas guzzler tax bracket. The first 1-6 gears are nearly identical to the Ms but the 7th and 8th are just fuel economy gears that will NEVER see use on a track unless the straight is like 5 miles long. The thinner tires offer slightly lower resistance. Ultimately, the GGT is a 1300$ difference. Not a biggie, but an equally optioned M3 comes out about 8K more already so 9.3K difference between a similar IS-F and M3. I wonder if the DCT will have the GGT?

SO, is 9.3K really worth that 1 second at Laguna Seca - and probably even less (using equal tires). Maybe for a race car driver, but for a daily driver to and from work, I'd rather keep the 9.3K and know that my car will probably not need to see the dealership as often (statistically - sorry for the low blow).
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      03-28-2008, 07:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
how about the stupid F figure on the front fender flap? uggggh!!!

I dont care about the badge. I do care about engineering, history and heritage, all of which the M3 has and Lexus does not. Japanese engineers are awesome....at copying others work. Japanese engineers ride the train to work, BMW engineers take the autobahn. The M3 is the real thing. The Lexus brand Toyota is a wanna be.

Its good BMW has competition to keep them on their toes and keep them honest, however I would never, never , ever buy the IS-F.
You do realize that BMW uses Japanese parts for their engines right, like the twin turbos from the 335's engine that is manufactured by Mitsubishi. Do you honestly think that BMW and especially the M division had a history and heritage from the begining. Answer is NO. BMW worked very hard to build it and earned it. Lexus is doing the same thing. And i guess that the fact that ISF is able to get 23mpg and avoid GGT and still perform as well as the M3 is not good engineering for you. Not to mention the GTR, i guess that's not good engineering either.
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      03-28-2008, 11:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc View Post
I think that C&D comparo is a little botched or something is up with the 0-60 times. That 4.1 for the M3 sedan seems to be an outlier IMO. Just look at the 5-60 start. I'm thinking the 4.1 times was a PERFECT one in a 100 launch at the perfect probably high RPM easing the clutch in (burning the clutch) type of launch. They kind of launch you will RARELY get unless your last name is Force or something. Anyways, I think the two cars are more similar than even that test shows. I truly believe the IS-F has the more powerful engine despite the lower power:weight ratio. Look at how it starts to catch up and actually goes faster - on a highway, the IS-F will slowly walk an M3. The higher rpm of the M3 will give better throttle modulation and control (great for track) but for a simple drag race or a straight line race in the HWY, the IS-F wins vs the 6 speed MANUAL M3 (DCT is another story). In the twisties, I know the M3 wins - but keep in mind that they are not using identical tires. The IS-F weighs more and is using a skinnier PS2 tire. Are you guys really surprised that the M3 ended up putting up higher numbers in the traction department? I bet if you stuck the RE070 from the GT-R on the IS-F, you'd see a different result. They complain of the brakes being too on/off but IMO, the 6 piston Brembo brakes in the front have NEVER faded in any comparo, test, etc. while the 1 piston M3 brakes have. I don't understand why even the 135 has 6piston while the m3 has single piston. What the heck was BMW thinking there?

Why didn't the Lexus guys use fatter tires? I'm suspecting that they were trying to sneak into the NO gas guzzler tax bracket. The first 1-6 gears are nearly identical to the Ms but the 7th and 8th are just fuel economy gears that will NEVER see use on a track unless the straight is like 5 miles long. The thinner tires offer slightly lower resistance. Ultimately, the GGT is a 1300$ difference. Not a biggie, but an equally optioned M3 comes out about 8K more already so 9.3K difference between a similar IS-F and M3. I wonder if the DCT will have the GGT?

SO, is 9.3K really worth that 1 second at Laguna Seca - and probably even less (using equal tires). Maybe for a race car driver, but for a daily driver to and from work, I'd rather keep the 9.3K and know that my car will probably not need to see the dealership as often (statistically - sorry for the low blow).

0-60 shouldnt be outlier. launches in m-dynamic mode are rev to 8200, drop clutch, go. they showed it on top-gear. basically a launch-control.
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      03-28-2008, 01:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
You do realize that BMW uses Japanese parts for their engines right, like the twin turbos from the 335's engine that is manufactured by Mitsubishi. Do you honestly think that BMW and especially the M division had a history and heritage from the begining. Answer is NO. BMW worked very hard to build it and earned it. Lexus is doing the same thing. And i guess that the fact that ISF is able to get 23mpg and avoid GGT and still perform as well as the M3 is not good engineering for you. Not to mention the GTR, i guess that's not good engineering either.

I never said they are not good engineers - they are some of the best. they build great turbos and other parts. but Toyotal and Lexus have spent years building quiet dependable cars. BMW has been building cars for racing since the 30's and cars for the autobahn since it was built.

compare these engines. ones is a big displacement LS460 motor tuned by .....not even toyota themselves.....but Yamaha!!!

the other engine is a one of a kind, 8 throttle body, m-car only, small discplacement, 8400 rpm screamer built by the same people that assemble BMW f1 engines.

which engine is the true "motorsports" niche car engine?
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      03-28-2008, 01:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
I never said they are not good engineers - they are some of the best. they build great turbos and other parts. but Toyotal and Lexus have spent years building quiet dependable cars. BMW has been building cars for racing since the 30's and cars for the autobahn since it was built.

compare these engines. ones is a big displacement LS460 motor tuned by .....not even toyota themselves.....but Yamaha!!!

the other engine is a one of a kind, 8 throttle body, m-car only, small discplacement, 8400 rpm screamer built by the same people that assemble BMW f1 engines.

which engine is the true "motorsports" niche car engine?
We're not talking about which car has a "true motorsports" engine, whatever that means. We're talking about how you're bashing the ISF because it's a Toyota. And you did say that you like BMW because of it's engineering and how their engineers take the Autobahn and the Japanese engineers take the train. Which means to you that the BMW engineers are much better because they don't take the train like the Japanese engineers. Do you realize how retarded that really sounds. You're actually making a comparison and conclusion that the BMW engineers are better because they don't take the train, they take the Autobahn. How old are you? 19 or 16? And just to remind you, Toyota has built several high performance cars in the past. The last Supra Turbo, which was 13yrs ago, is as quick as some of the current sports cars today. It was capable of mid 4's to 60 and high 12's to 1/4 mile.

Last edited by gbb357; 03-28-2008 at 02:03 PM.
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