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      03-21-2008, 09:23 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
The reason why people suspect a heavier wheel is because BMW will not spend as much time creating a wheel as some wheel companies.
Not sure why people suspect this. Why wouldn't BMW spend whatever time is necessarily to design high quality wheels? How are wheels any different than any other component of the car? Then they should also be less than optimal with the engine, suspension, transmission, engine, etc...

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Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
Also, more importantly, BMW wants to ENSURE no chance of breakage by thus making them heavier.
BBS has the same concern here. It's not as if all BBS rims are made for the track. Actually, most aren't.

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Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
Also, the wheels have many spokes...and each spoke is not thin, and definitely not hollow either...therefore it would really be hard to believe a 23/26 lb wheel weight. I would say a minimum of 25/27, but that's just me.
I don't see a major difference between the numbers you are quoting above. We were discussing the stock 19" wheels weighing more than 28/29 lbs, which is over the top I think.


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Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
Again, no offense to anyone, including BMW...they are a company that wants to minimize costs, and by making the wheels heavier, 99% of buyers would not notice, and, in the process, wheel-related incidents would be minimized.
Yes, but the stock 19" wheels are by no means cheap. It's not as if BMW is giving them away. $1200 as an option. And as Greg is saying, in volume they would be comparable in value to a set of aftermarket wheels which sell for $3k. I'm not taking any offense in any of this. We're just discussing.
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      03-21-2008, 10:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
I highly doubt that BMW would provide 23 lb wheels...I think that they are heavier. The info on Tire Rack is not always correct as those ugly Breyton GTS wheels were said to weigh 20~ lbs, but weighed 24-25 lbs...so until the tires are weighed independently, I cannot believe the 23/26 lb wheel weight.

No offense to your scale or your car or the time you took to do this or tirerack.com, just being analytical.
Those weights are pretty much in line to what the E46 M3 19" forged wheels weighted...
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      03-21-2008, 10:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Not sure why people suspect this. Why wouldn't BMW spend whatever time is necessarily to design high quality wheels? How are wheels any different than any other component of the car? Then they should also be less than optimal with the engine, suspension, transmission, engine, etc...



BBS has the same concern here. It's not as if all BBS rims are made for the track. Actually, most aren't.



I don't see a major difference between the numbers you are quoting above. We were discussing the stock 19" wheels weighing more than 28/29 lbs, which is over the top I think.




Yes, but the stock 19" wheels are by no means cheap. It's not as if BMW is giving them away. $1200 as an option. And as Greg is saying, in volume they would be comparable in value to a set of aftermarket wheels which sell for $3k. I'm not taking any offense in any of this. We're just discussing.
I agree with everything, and I don't expect them to be 28-30 lb, but still not 23. The 26 I can accept, just not the 23. Also, one must note that BBS primarily makes wheels, i.e. they spend day and night producing and researching ways to make stronger wheels. BMW, although a VERY large company, doubtfully allocates a large portion of it to wheel design.
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      03-21-2008, 10:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Those weights are pretty much in line to what the E46 M3 19" forged wheels weighted...
Which ones? The CSL wheels were specially made for performance and I do believe they weighed in at 23/24 lb...but stock M3 wheels must have been heavier.

The E92, "performance" wheels, IMO as of now, are the 18s...there is no PRESSING reason to just have 18's (other than ride quality) and not 19's other than for performance.

http://wheelweights.net/
The E46 Competition wheels (CSL?) are marked as not being forged and weighing 24 F/25.5 R which is REALLY light for a cast 19'' wheel.
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      03-21-2008, 10:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
BMW, although a VERY large company, doubtfully allocates a large portion of it to wheel design.
No way BMW does their own wheels. Sure, they probably do the concept design and design development, but a wheel company is doing the bulk of the work. I thought the producing company might be stamped on the back, but though it does say "Germany", I didn't see a company name. Not sure what the "AISi1" means.
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      03-21-2008, 10:37 PM   #28
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Good point...As to who it is...

AlSi is Aluminum-Silicone alloy...nothing to do with brand.
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      03-21-2008, 10:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
Which ones? The CSL wheels were specially made for performance and I do believe they weighed in at 23/24 lb...but stock M3 wheels must have been heavier.

The E92, "performance" wheels, IMO as of now, are the 18s...there is no PRESSING reason to just have 18's (other than ride quality) and not 19's other than for performance.

http://wheelweights.net/
The E46 Competition wheels (CSL?) are marked as not being forged and weighing 24 F/25.5 R which is REALLY light for a cast 19'' wheel.
Your suspicion is correct:

E46 19" weights (F/R) lbs:
ZCP = 23/24 (spun cast)
OEM = 28/29 (forged)

So unless these E92 M3 wheels are also spun cast and again BMW is using the term "forged" as they did on the ZCP's, this 23/26 weight is kind of too light compared with the E46 M3's OEM's.
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      03-21-2008, 10:44 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
Good point...As to who it is...

AlSi is Aluminum-Silicone alloy...nothing to do with brand.
I didn't think that was a brand, but thanks for decyphering.
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      03-21-2008, 10:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Your suspicion is correct:

E46 19" weights (F/R) lbs:
ZCP = 23/24 (spun cast)
OEM = 28/29 (forged)

So unless these E92 M3 wheels are also spun cast and again BMW is using the term "forged" as they did on the ZCP's, this 23/26 weight is kind of too light compared with the E46 M3's OEM's.
FYI, I weighed my stock E46 M3 18s at 26# F, 28# R.
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      03-21-2008, 11:07 PM   #32
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Here are some pics; I also photographed the calipers/suspension, which I will post later.
Are you messing with us again by not posting these pics??
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      03-21-2008, 11:20 PM   #33
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Are you messing with us again by not posting these pics??
I'm getting ready to leave for Sun Valley in the morning--give me a break! Okay, since you insist, here are a couple. Rotors are a little rusty because I had just washed the car and nto driven it. Rear calipers are pretty whimpy, but brakes seem good so far.
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      03-21-2008, 11:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
I'm getting ready to leave for Sun Valley in the morning--give me a break! Okay, since you insist, here are a couple. Rotors are a little rusty because I had just washed the car and nto driven it. Rear calipers are pretty whimpy, but brakes seem good so far.
Nice pics...I hate the look of rust though! It makes me feel...oh so small. It's a color that goes with nothing! lol

Rear calipers ARE reaaaaaally wimpy, wow.
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