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      03-13-2008, 09:26 PM   #45
par4bmw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nechronics View Post
I saw this combo yesterday - I HIGHLY disliked it...the two seemed to really clash IMO.

For me, FR needs CFL or you need to get another color.
+1

but have not seen FR / Alum IRL just Black / Alum
seems like it would be pretty busy - might not be bad without extending FR to the dash
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      03-13-2008, 09:37 PM   #46
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I saw it without extended and it still came off as too busy.
I know swamp will probably never be convinced to get CFL, but I'd have to recommend against FR if that's the case. As for CFL being poser - I still don't see how you can call a "design" poser. Carbon fiber did not adopt its look through function but by arbitrary form. The look of carbon fibre doesn't contribute to its function, only to identify it. Thus, applying that arbitrary "non-functional" form to something else does not imply poser. By believing this, you're not only contradicting but misinterpreting "form follows function."
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      03-13-2008, 10:47 PM   #47
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I don't like the aluminum trim at all.

The Sycamore anthracite wood/Carbon fiber leather trim, are great!

Extended leather does not look good.
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      03-14-2008, 03:34 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nechronics View Post
I saw it without extended and it still came off as too busy.
I know swamp will probably never be convinced to get CFL, but I'd have to recommend against FR if that's the case. As for CFL being poser - I still don't see how you can call a "design" poser. Carbon fiber did not adopt its look through function but by arbitrary form. The look of carbon fibre doesn't contribute to its function, only to identify it. Thus, applying that arbitrary "non-functional" form to something else does not imply poser. By believing this, you're not only contradicting but misinterpreting "form follows function."
Sorry for the OT E, but here we go...

We are really trying way to hard (both of us ) to justify what is essentially an aesthetic/personal/subjective thing.

Perhaps poser is a bit too strong of a word but there is something clearly fake about it and there is much in common between fake and poser-ish. What more or less can you call it making a non structural nor weight critical nor stiffness critical part look really close to carbon fiber? Heck they even call it "Carbon", which is again FAKE. Hmmm what's next. You ask how can I call a "design" poser - man that is so basic. How is a huge wing, fake disc brakes and tons of stickers poser? That is just an owners "design" of his particular car based on his view of cool or aesthetic, just like a choice for interior trim! You are also wrong about why CF looks the way it does. That is 100% about engineering, material science and performance, it sure as heck is not arbitrary. In this way its look is absolutely a pure product of its intended function. I am simply going to have to turn the tables on you on this point and call the contradiction entirely on your end.

Funny thing is that this is the one option I am a bit on the fence about. Black, red and aluminum may have a bit too much contrast. Either the Ti Shadow or CF trim may just end up on my car.

I do thank all those for their input on this super subtle/personal issue of choice.
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      03-14-2008, 07:42 AM   #49
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Despite disagreeing with you I can entirely see where you're coming from and respect that. I concede there is something "fake" about it, but to me there is a large difference between putting a spoiler and aero kit that serves no functional purpose other than to look like one, and making leather that looks like CF. The leather is not trying to serve the purpose of CF, obviously, other than paying homage to it. After seeing it IRL, though it completely exceeded my expectations. It flows too well with the rest of the interior while feeling more solid and less awkward than the other trim(s). Either way, good luck, whatever you pick.

Sorry again for the
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      03-14-2008, 09:05 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelsM3 View Post
I don't like the aluminum trim at all.

The Sycamore anthracite wood/Carbon fiber leather trim, are great!

Extended leather does not look good.
actually it looks great if leather is black... i liked it
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      03-14-2008, 11:22 AM   #51
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DAMN YOU E! I had a long and painful dream last night, during which I was driving my new M3 around town, trying to make it go, and it just had NO pick-up whatsover! I was so frustrated! My 325 felt faster. I'm not kidding man.
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      03-14-2008, 11:47 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
+1. This is perhaps the key feature of the M3s engine, broad flat torque curve with a peak quite low and low compared to redline. This, just like some similar M-DCT issues, come down to speed vs. the perception of speed. The derivative of acceleration (jerk) is not the same as the level of the acceleration. Nonetheless it is hard to convince yourself that jerk is not equivalent to fast. The exact same thing happened with E36 M3 to E46 M3, way faster but perhaps in some situations it felt slower.

I ain't worried one bit. As SCBMW02 pointed out - the numbers just don't lie.



The skidpad figures I have seen for the Z4M is .90g. Do you know of higher ones? Have you even seen one as high as the M3? I would absolutely bet on the E9X M3, Coupe or Sedan out cornering the Z4M.
Another note on the torque curve, me and the CA had the e92 as low as 1300rpms and it was pulling.....this engine is SO ATHLETIC and DYNAMIC, she has power from pretty much idle to redline (well I haven't gotten to redline but i just assume it does).

Oh, and THANK YOU SWAMP, I totally agree about the Z4m out handeling the e92 M3, glad someone stepped up and called out Art's claim/statement as totally incorrect. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I bet the e92 M3 killed the Z4m's at nuremberg. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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      03-14-2008, 11:50 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by lucid View Post
DAMN YOU E! I had a long and painful dream last night, during which I was driving my new M3 around town, trying to make it go, and it just had NO pick-up whatsover! I was so frustrated! My 325 felt faster. I'm not kidding man.
Whoa! Not good. Looks like I got some of the US owners scared the car makes such little power compared to the Euro version.
It must have really sunk in with you to be in your subconscious.

That is a hilarious dream though.
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      03-14-2008, 11:51 AM   #54
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I will sue you for emotional distress!
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      03-14-2008, 11:55 AM   #55
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Irvine BMW has two M3's in stock; a sedan and a coupe. I'm going to check them out today. I know that the coupe was priced at $85k (..that includes the mark-up), but was lowered to around $72k.
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      03-14-2008, 12:13 PM   #56
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Irvine BMW has two M3's in stock; a sedan and a coupe. I'm going to check them out today. I know that the coupe was priced at $85k (..that includes the mark-up), but was lowered to around $72k.


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      03-14-2008, 01:00 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Irvine BMW has two M3's in stock; a sedan and a coupe. I'm going to check them out today. I know that the coupe was priced at $85k (..that includes the mark-up), but was lowered to around $72k.
NOPE! coupe was sold last night for 82k in front me, so they only have a black sedan.

BTW i sat in both sedan and coupe, the sedan felt very uncomfortable in terms of the height of seat, shifter position, arm rest, and clutch. i couldnt find a position i was comfortable at. Coupe was right there.
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      03-14-2008, 07:56 PM   #58
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Quote:
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Well, about the aluminum trim and the Fox red. Thought you might be interested.
As you say...PICS PLEASE. Some good ones!
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      03-15-2008, 01:53 AM   #59
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Cars are available to order to April production. There are plenty of M3s out there. I have to wait to drive one with DCT.
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      03-15-2008, 04:58 AM   #60
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I remember my e46 M3 was hard to drive. You had to really think about engaging first with sport mode on to avoid bucking... and other quirks... Ah, doesn't matter.
Sport mode was nothing more than a silly gimic in the E46. It made most drivers slower while making them feel faster.
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      03-15-2008, 09:42 AM   #61
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Sport mode was nothing more than a silly gimic in the E46. It made most drivers slower while making them feel faster.
how do you figure that?
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      03-15-2008, 11:44 AM   #62
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As you say...PICS PLEASE. Some good ones!
I actually didn't take any. The car was a mess. Still had all the wrappings on it.
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      03-15-2008, 01:17 PM   #63
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Quote:
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NOPE! coupe was sold last night for 82k in front me, so they only have a black sedan.

BTW i sat in both sedan and coupe, the sedan felt very uncomfortable in terms of the height of seat, shifter position, arm rest, and clutch. i couldnt find a position i was comfortable at. Coupe was right there.
Wow, that was fast!

I went to Shelly BMW last night, and they have a Jerez black sedan and a AW coupe. I sat in both, and found them to be equally comfortable to me. I have a sedan 330i, so I'm used to how it feels. I felt right at home in the cockpit of the ///M sedan.
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      03-15-2008, 02:19 PM   #64
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how do you figure that?
All sport mode did was re-map the throttle response of the car. It did not add any power. Now when you are driving a car at 10/10 what you want to do is roll on the gas coming out of turns. You do this gently so the car has time to transfer weight to the rear tires allowing you to roll on more power. How fast you can do that is dictated by the cars suspension.

Now with sport mode on what I saw as an instructor is most drivers would wait longer to get back on the gas out of turns since they couldn't modulate the throttle effectivly. So while the car felt faster since there was this hit of power when they finally did use it the car was going slower since they should have been already acellerating for about 0.5s.

If it added power you would have to find a way to deal with it. But since it doesn't just use the extra precision in the throttle with it off.
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      03-16-2008, 11:32 AM   #65
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Epacy -- I really appreciate your honesty. There has been a lot of buildup about the car, that's for sure.

How much torque does your Max have and at what rpm? You might be used to a stronger punch.

If the E92 M3 is anything like the Z4M Coupe I had and sold, it has to be spanked to be fast, and it's hard to be smooth with it unless you are flogging it. That "edginess" is what made the Z4MC unsuitable for me (I do not drive down the street at 10/10ths)

thanks again for your post....
Interesting. I Use my Z4M as a daily driver. I have 60,000 Miles on it and counting. The car is as smooth as a babies bottom. Maybe you need to practice driving stick a bit?
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