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      03-09-2008, 10:18 PM   #1
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M3 v. 360

I noticed that the Ferrari 360 and the S65 engines have nearly the same specs. How would they fare against each other on the track? The nordschleife lap times between the E92 and the 360CS are 10 seconds apart, but what about the regular 360?
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      03-10-2008, 12:53 AM   #2
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Although the specs are close, the 360 weights 500lbs less!
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      03-10-2008, 06:11 AM   #3
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On a track like the ring my money would be on the M3. Supercars generally can't perform as well on rough, bumper conditions as a so-called sportscar like the M3. But on a traditional race circuit I very much doubt the M3 would be able to match the 360 for long, as brakes and tyres would start to heat up much, much quicker.

The people I know who regularly use the ring say it's traditionally not a track which is that sore of brakes compared to a normal short circuit track.
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      03-10-2008, 06:27 AM   #4
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I think the engines are pretty comparable after having driven both, although the M3 didn't get the same workout because of the mileage on the car. Very similar characteristics though. They sound different because of the cranks, etc but both sound great in their own way. I was thinking of cars I have driven before that would be the closest thing to the new M3 4 liter, and the 360 always came to mind. The GT3 engine is also a good one I would imagine, although it's in a much lighter car as well, and I haven't had the chance to drive one of those unfortunately.
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      03-10-2008, 09:55 AM   #5
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Sportauto had a Supertest of the F 360:
Nordschleife: 8:09 (M3: 8.05)
Hockenheim: 1:15.1 (M3: 1:14.3)

The 360 didn't run on UHP tires though.


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      03-10-2008, 11:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Sportauto had a Supertest of the F 360:
Nordschleife: 8:09 (M3: 8.05)
Hockenheim: 1:15.1 (M3: 1:14.3)

The 360 didn't run on UHP tires though.


Best regards, south
Well based on the fact that UHP tyres improve times on the ring by 3~4s (might be more with some cars) that would place both roughly even on the ring. Is it known if the F360 with a manual or F1 gearbox?

The Hockenheim time with UHP tyres would most likely improve by 1.3~2s so chances are the F360 would be a little quicker here, but like I said both tyres and brakes will heat up a lot quicker in the M3 so it will only hold on to the Ferrari on the first 1 or 2 laps.
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      03-10-2008, 11:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Well based on the fact that UHP tyres improve times on the ring by 3~4s (might be more with some cars) that would place both roughly even on the ring. Is it known if the F360 with a manual or F1 gearbox?

The Hockenheim time with UHP tyres would most likely improve by 1.3~2s so chances are the F360 would be a little quicker here, but like I said both tyres and brakes will heat up a lot quicker in the M3 so it will only hold on to the Ferrari on the first 1 or 2 laps.
The Sportauto list reads "Ferrari 360 Modena" without mentioning F1, hence I assume it was MT.

We know a time of 1:15.4 for the M3 on PS2 tires, so you're right, the 360 is slightly faster.


Best regards, south
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      03-10-2008, 11:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
The Sportauto list reads "Ferrari 360 Modena" without mentioning F1, hence I assume it was MT.

We know a time of 1:15.4 for the M3 on PS2 tires, so you're right, the 360 is slightly faster.


Best regards, south
It's still impressive from BMW to produce what is a very useable four seater daily drive that will match the Ferrari (admittedly one of a few years ago) in both acceleration and on most of the track around the world.

I wonder what they could achieve if BMW turned the efforts to developing a proper supercars, especially based on Audi's efforts.

Regardless of what some may say, the R8 is a much better balance car than the Gallardo so Audi's efforts did turn the R8 into a much better car, even if a lot of the development work had been done in advance.
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      03-10-2008, 09:00 PM   #9
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still quite different cars. Iv driven the 360, its an orgasmic machine but a little dated now ten years later.
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      03-11-2008, 12:04 PM   #10
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I think the tires have made a big difference here. Not the best comparison with the M3. Doesn't the Challenge Stradale have UHP tires and some lap times?

Nonetheless, this is very immpressive given the power to weight disparity among the cars.

F360: 7.8 lb/hp
M3 (US): 8.9 lb/hp

13% advantage to the Ferrari.

According to the N'ring regression analysis the power to weight advantage of the Ferrari should have been good for about 9 seconds advantage on that track. Is it possible that the tires made up this 9 seconds then added 4 more to take the lead? I'd guess the tires would just about equalize the 9 seconds, again making the M3s win all the more impressive.

Also south how about adding the F360 numbers to the "More performance..." thread? Such comparisons are valid and simply an honor for the M3.
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      03-11-2008, 12:22 PM   #11
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what'swamp do you know both their n'ring records?
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      03-11-2008, 12:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I think the tires have made a big difference here. Not the best comparison with the M3. Doesn't the Challenge Stradale have UHP tires and some lap times?

Nonetheless, this is very immpressive given the power to weight disparity among the cars.

F360: 7.8 lb/hp
M3 (US): 8.9 lb/hp

13% advantage to the Ferrari.

According to the N'ring regression analysis the power to weight advantage of the Ferrari should have been good for about 9 seconds advantage on that track. Is it possible that the tires made up this 9 seconds then added 4 more to take the lead? I'd guess the tires would just about equalize the 9 seconds, again making the M3s win all the more impressive.

Also south how about adding the F360 numbers to the "More performance..." thread? Such comparisons are valid and simply an honor for the M3.
EDIT: Just realized the F360 numbers are already added to the performance numbers thread.


Best regards, south
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      03-11-2008, 03:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantis View Post
what'swamp do you know both their n'ring records?
I don't only not understand this from punctuation and spacing issues but the intent is totally unclear as well. I don't demand pefect spelling or grammar on a automotive forum but you really need to do better here.

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      03-11-2008, 05:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I don't only not understand this from punctuation and spacing issues but the intent is totally unclear as well. I don't demand pefect spelling or grammar on a automotive forum but you really need to do better here.



I thought the same thing when I read that post time after time trying to understand it.
I chalked it up to more PWing.
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      03-11-2008, 06:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
I chalked it up to more PWing.


Yup, I am waiting for that reply.
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      03-11-2008, 06:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I don't only not understand this from punctuation and spacing issues but the intent is totally unclear as well. I don't demand pefect spelling or grammar on a automotive forum but you really need to do better here.

do u know the n'ring numbers for both cars?
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      03-11-2008, 06:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantis View Post
do u know the n'ring numbers for both cars?
Post #5


Best regards, south
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      03-11-2008, 07:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Post #5


Best regards, south
Yeah, I know. Already posted.
Really not sure the point of those posts.
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      03-11-2008, 07:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Yeah, I know. Already posted.
Really not sure the point of those posts.
not sure of point of all your posts either
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      03-12-2008, 12:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantis View Post
not sure of point of all your posts either
Dude, seriously, learn to read. An enormous post count has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with post QUALITY.
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      03-12-2008, 10:54 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantis View Post
not sure of point of all your posts either
ugh...
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      03-12-2008, 10:59 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Dude, seriously, learn to read. An enormous post count has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with post QUALITY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantis View Post
not sure of point of all your posts either


Mantis, you can put more hookers in the trunk of the M3 than the F360
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