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      02-25-2008, 10:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90jason View Post
Thanks...

e90im, what drives you to be so passionate about debating the "religious?" I really am curious. You spend a great deal of time refuting what the "religious" say, when you could just let them do their thing. What motivates you to not give up?

It’s not that I think I will convert the religious. They are for the most part far gone. It’s the independent vote, the undecided ones, the people that haven’t thought about these things seriously.

Being religious impairs your judgment and hurts truth appreciating people on election day.

How, you ask?
Abortion, stem cell research, ID (intelligent design), tax free televangelist conglomerates…….

Someone has to call
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      02-25-2008, 11:00 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90jason View Post
Thanks...

e90im, what drives you to be so passionate about debating the "religious?" I really am curious. You spend a great deal of time refuting what the "religious" say, when you could just let them do their thing. What motivates you to not give up?
Atheism appears to be the hatred (at least the loathing) of God and his people.
Perhaps it is just that the atheist is retarded in that they cannot comprehend the least bit of heaven.
Perhaps e90im will tell us what he thinks is so great that we will miss out on but that he gets to enjoy because his is not bound by faith.
One day e90im could be out of his mind with such apparent hatred. Don't let him anywhere near a gun.
Maybe e90im will merely bottom out, then he might be saved from the cesspool.
BTW: e90im, there still are some prayers for you.
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      02-25-2008, 11:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Atheism appears to be the hatred (at least the loathing) of God and his people.
Perhaps it is just that the atheist is retarded in that they cannot comprehend the least bit of heaven.
Perhaps e90im will tell us what he thinks is so great that we will miss out on but that he gets to enjoy because his is not bound by faith.
One day e90im could be out of his mind with such apparent hatred. Don't let him anywhere near a gun.
Maybe e90im will merely bottom out, then he might be saved from the cesspool.
BTW: e90im, there still are some prayers for you.
Come on now, scottwww...don't be a hater.
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      02-25-2008, 11:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
Itís not that I think I will convert the religious. They are for the most part far gone. Itís the independent vote, the undecided ones, the people that havenít thought about these things seriously.

Being religious impairs your judgment and hurts truth appreciating people on election day.

How, you ask?
Abortion, stem cell research, ID (intelligent design), tax free televangelist conglomeratesÖÖ.

Someone has to call
I see it a little clearer now. You are very much like the religious...primarily looking for the undecided to persuade them to a system of thinking, right?
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      02-25-2008, 11:17 PM   #27
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Scotty, you are a religious fundamentalist. Whenever you are upset by my remarks, you use the moral bullshit religious card. Like if you knew something I donít about how world works. You ride the bible when it suits you.

You are the poster boy of hypocrisy. You drive cars worth 80K and Christian children are starving.
Your fat yellow teeth race horse is a looser. You are mad. I understand that. So you claim a high moral ground on me?
As for your last statement: WHEN A PRAYER DOESNíT WORK, THAT CONSTITUTES DATA!!!
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      02-25-2008, 11:24 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90jason View Post
I see it a little clearer now. You are very much like the religious...primarily looking for the undecided to persuade them to a system of thinking, right?
System of thinking? Yes.
Except, when we are wrong, we admit it, and correct it. We don't bullshit.

Scientific method is a self correcting machinery.

I am nothing like the religious. When Iím wrong, I learn from it. There are no absolute truths.

There are no authorities in science. At best there are expert.
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      02-25-2008, 11:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90jason View Post
Come on now, scottwww...don't be a hater.
Really, I'm not a hater. e90im and I have had a number of "conversations" over the last few months. Most of them have been civil. I thought I had grown to like e90im a little bit.

However, he has been posting tons of trash. It really doesn't deserve a response. I just needed to unload a bit. Normally I can keep such thoughts to myself because they really aren't productive in a reply. At the same time, once in a while you feel you need to throw a punch.
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      02-26-2008, 12:06 AM   #30
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e90im, what are your thoughts on why we humans are here? Is there any purpose to our existence? Any "after-life?"

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm trying to be a jerk, I really want to know your thoughts.
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      02-26-2008, 12:07 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Really, I'm not a hater. e90im and I have had a number of "conversations" over the last few months. Most of them have been civil. I thought I had grown to like e90im a little bit.

However, he has been posting tons of trash. It really doesn't deserve a response. I just needed to unload a bit. Normally I can keep such thoughts to myself because they really aren't productive in a reply. At the same time, once in a while you feel you need to throw a punch.
I understand. I've read many of the conversations between you two...I'm just keeping you in check.
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      02-26-2008, 12:58 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
Alpine,

You are not the first one to follow the exact same religious debate patern with me.

Your bag of arguments empties quickly. Then you will whip out the good book. Pascal's wager, evolution is just a theory, 1st amendment/1st commandment, and at the end, you jump on your high moral horse, quote a scripture and ride it to sunset.



Good luck to you dude. And I hope you keep up with science.
My bag of arguments is never ending. I could go back and forth with you every day for the rest of my life. But I'm not naive. I know you're heart is hard towards God.. and anything to do with Christianity. Like I said, It's not my job to 'convert' you. I'm not here to slap you're wrists and tell you you're living life wrong. It's not my job. What my job IS is to share the truth with you. To share the Gospel. To tell you that God became man, lived a perfect life, explained to us how we can be saved from our sins, sins of which the penalty is death, and took the burden of all sin, past and present, on himself so that we could have everlasting life with Him. I know you're reading this right now saying its a scam, a joke, whatever else you want to say. But now you know. You've known, but you choose to ignore it. It's not my job to convince you to believe. Its your choice.

By no means am I riding off on my high horse. I told you I come to you with the utmost respect. Coming in respect is hardly being on a high horse. I'm talking to you man to man, as face to face as I can get to you. I'm not talking above you at all. And if I come off that way, I apologize. It was never my intent. I want to respect you the same as I want you to respect me. We believe completely different things, but respect still needs to be present so that we can have civilized conversations.

Of course I quote the Bible. Why wouldn't I quote the Bible? Its the basis for the Christian faith. It's the real Word of God. I believe that it is true, that it accurately describes history, the life of Jesus, and the path to salvation.

I was going to leave you with that last post, but as long as you continue to attack me, and claim that God doesn't exist and Jesus is a joke, then I'll be here. The Bible has withstood thousands of years of attacks and criticism, and its certainly not going to crumble now.

The thing that bothers me, is that you think you're so anti-religion.. yet you're just as, if not more 'religious' than all of us. You have chosen atheism as your religion and you're extremely passionate about it. Atheism is what you base your decisions on, its why you believe in science so much. It influences your daily routine, it influences your voting, your relationships, your life as a whole. So why is it so unreasonable to understand that Christians base their lives off of the very same thing? You can't stand how we base our decisions on the teachings of the Bible, base our voting on the moral values of the Bible. Why is that so wrong, if you do the very same thing? You call us naive because of it, yet we look at you, and say the very same thing.
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      02-26-2008, 01:19 AM   #33
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This is why I never partake in debates about Evolution. They tend to go downhill quickly, and trying to talk someone down from a dogmatic belief with logic will never work. The inverse is also true. Trying to talk someone out of a belief well founded in logic through a position based on dogma is purposeless. Both sides see the other's position as fundamentally flawed.
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      02-26-2008, 09:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
I am nothing like the religious. When I’m wrong, I learn from it. There are no absolute truths.
oh boy e90im you must be confused. you shouldn't say something like this, being such a man of science and all. absolute truth is the backbone to the study of the natural world. if there are no absolute truths, then what is science trying to determine? if there are no absolute truths, then we should accept every explanation for everything.

e90im, in fact, the reason why we argue is because we believe there is an absolute truth, in science and spirituality. it's because we believe that if one thing is true, then there must be other things that are false (and i don't mean to say that science and spirituality are mutually exclusive, which is what you assert constantly).

just because people can be wrong, does not mean there are no absolute truths. the natural stays the same (for the most part), it's just that, what we know about it changes. i don't believe that the universe is some sort of fluid blob that constantly changes at random times and in random ways. there is a system that is in order (as opposed to chaos) that we live in and science is the discovery of these absolute truths.
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      02-26-2008, 01:52 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by its ray den View Post
oh boy e90im you must be confused. you shouldn't say something like this, being such a man of science and all. absolute truth is the backbone to the study of the natural world. if there are no absolute truths, then what is science trying to determine? if there are no absolute truths, then we should accept every explanation for everything.

e90im, in fact, the reason why we argue is because we believe there is an absolute truth, in science and spirituality. it's because we believe that if one thing is true, then there must be other things that are false (and i don't mean to say that science and spirituality are mutually exclusive, which is what you assert constantly).

just because people can be wrong, does not mean there are no absolute truths. the natural stays the same (for the most part), it's just that, what we know about it changes. i don't believe that the universe is some sort of fluid blob that constantly changes at random times and in random ways. there is a system that is in order (as opposed to chaos) that we live in and science is the discovery of these absolute truths.

You know very little about science. Unfortunately, I don't feel like educating you. Start with quantum mechanics....
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      02-26-2008, 02:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
My bag of arguments is never ending. I could go back and forth with you every day for the rest of my life. But I'm not naive. I know you're heart is hard towards God.. and anything to do with Christianity. Like I said, It's not my job to 'convert' you. I'm not here to slap you're wrists and tell you you're living life wrong. It's not my job. What my job IS is to share the truth with you. To share the Gospel. To tell you that God became man, lived a perfect life, explained to us how we can be saved from our sins, sins of which the penalty is death, and took the burden of all sin, past and present, on himself so that we could have everlasting life with Him. I know you're reading this right now saying its a scam, a joke, whatever else you want to say. But now you know. You've known, but you choose to ignore it. It's not my job to convince you to believe. Its your choice.

By no means am I riding off on my high horse. I told you I come to you with the utmost respect. Coming in respect is hardly being on a high horse. I'm talking to you man to man, as face to face as I can get to you. I'm not talking above you at all. And if I come off that way, I apologize. It was never my intent. I want to respect you the same as I want you to respect me. We believe completely different things, but respect still needs to be present so that we can have civilized conversations.

Of course I quote the Bible. Why wouldn't I quote the Bible? Its the basis for the Christian faith. It's the real Word of God. I believe that it is true, that it accurately describes history, the life of Jesus, and the path to salvation.

I was going to leave you with that last post, but as long as you continue to attack me, and claim that God doesn't exist and Jesus is a joke, then I'll be here. The Bible has withstood thousands of years of attacks and criticism, and its certainly not going to crumble now.

The thing that bothers me, is that you think you're so anti-religion.. yet you're just as, if not more 'religious' than all of us. You have chosen atheism as your religion and you're extremely passionate about it. Atheism is what you base your decisions on, its why you believe in science so much. It influences your daily routine, it influences your voting, your relationships, your life as a whole. So why is it so unreasonable to understand that Christians base their lives off of the very same thing? You can't stand how we base our decisions on the teachings of the Bible, base our voting on the moral values of the Bible. Why is that so wrong, if you do the very same thing? You call us naive because of it, yet we look at you, and say the very same thing.
Do I have to through this every week with a new Christian? READ MY POSTS.

Contrary what your priest tells you, ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION!!! No scripture, worship or gatherings. Do you think that atheists get together and talk about not believing in God? Do people that don’t play chess have meetings to discuss not playing it???

I am anti religion because it is NOT true, (anecdotal evidence and a book do NOT count), it indoctrinates, stops free thinking and exploits gullible.

Science is backed by evidence, predictability and experiments. Christianity is based on an ancient man-made book!! Can’t you see the difference?
I simply live my life just fine without religion.

You bag of arguments is full of logical fallacies and scripture quotes. All your previous claims and questions, I shot down.
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      02-26-2008, 02:22 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Really, I'm not a hater. e90im and I have had a number of "conversations" over the last few months. Most of them have been civil. I thought I had grown to like e90im a little bit.

However, he has been posting tons of trash. It really doesn't deserve a response. I just needed to unload a bit. Normally I can keep such thoughts to myself because they really aren't productive in a reply. At the same time, once in a while you feel you need to throw a punch.
What trash? Fat Huck photos?
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      02-26-2008, 02:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
What trash? Fat Huck photos?
He means the trash that keeps falling out of your 'mouth', how you can't keep from typing what you're thinking. You should be more polite; arguments are more appealing when not hurled.

I missed the fat Huck photos...gotta search...
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      02-26-2008, 03:03 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by E90jason View Post
e90im, what are your thoughts on why we humans are here? Is there any purpose to our existence? Any "after-life?"

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm trying to be a jerk, I really want to know your thoughts.
You start with the premise that your ďwhy are we hereĒ question has an answer.

What if there is no why?

Canít we live our lives happy without that answer?

Purpose of existence is an individual question for each person to figure out.

I donít think there is any evidence that supports purpose of human existence.

There is zero physical evidence of afterlife. Until there is, Iím not planning to experience any.
This is what makes this life much more meaningful.

Are you religious? Itís OK if you are. I respect that, as long as you donít start to debate me using scripture.
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      02-26-2008, 03:05 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
He means the trash that keeps falling out of your 'mouth', how you can't keep from typing what you're thinking. You should be more polite; arguments are more appealing when not hurled.

I missed the fat Huck photos...gotta search...
Why don't you let him answer and, how's this for politeness?
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      02-26-2008, 04:20 PM   #41
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When arguing a point, you lose the argument when you lose your temper; valid points will be ignored.

Pretty clever pic, though.
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      02-26-2008, 04:54 PM   #42
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I didn't know you had a vert...
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      02-26-2008, 05:05 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
You start with the premise that your ďwhy are we hereĒ question has an answer.

What if there is no why?

Canít we live our lives happy without that answer?

Purpose of existence is an individual question for each person to figure out.

I donít think there is any evidence that supports purpose of human existence.

There is zero physical evidence of afterlife. Until there is, Iím not planning to experience any.
This is what makes this life much more meaningful.

Are you religious? Itís OK if you are. I respect that, as long as you donít start to debate me using scripture.
We can live happy lives without that answer...I think. This is part of what I'm trying to learn. I am religious and I will never use scripture to debate someone who doesn't believe the scripture.

I'm seeking...

Growing up a preacher's kid, it's kinda hard not to hold to what I've been taught and have used as the basis of my life.
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      02-26-2008, 07:34 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
Do I have to through this every week with a new Christian? READ MY POSTS.

Contrary what your priest tells you, ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION!!! No scripture, worship or gatherings. Do you think that atheists get together and talk about not believing in God? Do people that donít play chess have meetings to discuss not playing it???

I am anti religion because it is NOT true, (anecdotal evidence and a book do NOT count), it indoctrinates, stops free thinking and exploits gullible.

Science is backed by evidence, predictability and experiments. Christianity is based on an ancient man-made book!! Canít you see the difference?
I simply live my life just fine without religion.

You bag of arguments is full of logical fallacies and scripture quotes. All your previous claims and questions, I shot down.
I'm not a new Christian. I've been posting in the Christian forums since last summer, and I was saved nearly 15 years ago. So now you can READ MY POSTS.

Dictionary.com defines religion as:

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:

So you're telling me that atheism isn't a set of beliefs? You're telling me that an atheist is completely excluded from being considered a person adhering to a particular set of beliefs? Hardly. You keep firing back at me, but do your own research. According to the definition, it is a religion. It's the religion of not believing anything. Argue with the definition if you want, I didn't write it.

And who said that to be a religion you had to get together and talk about it and that you had to play chess with someone to be considered religious? Sorry, but that's stupid. And of course you don't get together to talk about God. Why would you? You don't believe He exists...

You keep saying that the Bible is just this random book. Do your research and find that this little book has survived over 2,000 years, and is to date one of the most historically accurate accounts ever taken. Especially in the New Testament, the scriptures depict accurate accounts that even archaeologists cannot disprove. I'll be happy to cite real concrete evidence to back this up if you'd like. The Bible will withstand whatever you throw at it.

Quote:
You bag of arguments is full of logical fallacies and scripture quotes. All your previous claims and questions, I shot down.
See, that's what you keep thinking! e90im, in all respect, you have YET to give me one piece of CONCRETE evidence that disproves Christianity. You have yet to even give me any evidence at all! All you do is criticize, be incredibly disrespectful, and then get on YOUR high horse, and act like you're the smartest person in the world. If you want to gain any credibility in this thread, start citing evidence. Show me where the Bible has been disproved. Show me your scientific truths that say there is no God. If you're not going to cite evidence, then you have no argument. I cite the Bible just like I would cite a scientific journal. As fact. Where's your evidence? The only thing you've said throughout this entire thread has been your own personal opinion.

You haven't shot down anything except your own credibility.
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