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      02-23-2008, 08:10 AM   #45
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Huh? The title says M3 w / DCT vs. Carrera S, guess I missed MSRP. Obviously MSRP is in the M3's favor, so what? If its performance for the buck, porsche or BMW are hardly the best option.

The point is the 997S is not going to be DCT less for much longer. The other point is with the upgrades the 997S will be the superior performer. I said they would unveil it close to production, to get a car in August production would have to be late April early June. The last build slot for the current model is early April. I'm not sure what you don't understand. Production would start a little over a month after the introduction, that is pretty darn quick.

I may be wrong on the date it is unveiled, Geneva makes the most sense, the point is Euro dealers have already confirmed all of this. Either way, I'll make sure to remind you of this after the official press release. Info usually shows up on forums before official press releases, nothing new.
First, we have each deviated from the title of the thread.

You're preaching to the choir. I have owned and loved quite a few 997s and probably know as much as most about the car. I don't doubt that the facelifted, power bumped 911 will put some hurt on the M. This has been discussed to death in other posts. But, $20k is a lot of dough to some people and that's where the M makes sense to them. A couple of tenths here or there doesn't make all that much difference on the street.

Lastly, I wouldn't rely so heavily on Porsche's PDK vs. BMW's M-DCT being a wash. The way I see it is that in a dual clutch comparison, BMW's version will have the edge, because it is very unlikely that Porsche will adopt a 7 speed. I dare say that the shorter ratios of the M will shave more time than faster shifts alone.

Swamp, can you believe this, I am defending the M against the 911; WTF!

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      02-23-2008, 08:56 AM   #46
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Lastly, I wouldn't rely so heavily on Porsche's PDK vs. BMW's M-DCT being a wash. The way I see it is that in a dual clutch comparison, BMW's version will have the edge, because it is very unlikely that Porsche will adopt a 7 speed. I dare say that the shorter ratios of the M will shave more time than faster shifts alone.

Swamp, can you believe this, I am defending the M against the 911; WTF!
I might be wrong on this but I believe the PDK and the DSG the Audi will be using in their longitude engine setups are one in the same, only the box is turned round. Can anyone confirm this because if I am correct that means the Porsche will also be running a 7 speed setup.
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      02-23-2008, 08:59 AM   #47
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I might be wrong on this but I believe the PDK and the DSG the Audi will be using in their longitude engine setups are one in the same, only the box is turned round. Can anyone confirm this because if I am correct that means the Porsche will also be running a 7 speed setup.
I do not know the answer to this, but that would be great if they did. I know you are not a Porsche fan Footie, but I think that a FL 997S with a SEVEN dual clutch would be quite impressive.
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      02-23-2008, 09:08 AM   #48
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I do not know the answer to this, but that would be great if they did. I know you are not a Porsche fan Footie, but I think that a FL 997S with a SEVEN dual clutch would be quite impressive.
I have had four Porsches, Boxster, Cayman and two Cayenne so I am a fan of the brand only I don't see the point of promoting the 911 in a world where the technology has moved on and now Porsche are very much at a disadvantage with it's layout. They need a mid-engine rival to the likes of Ferrari and Lamborghini and if any example proved this it was the R8, from nowhere it stole the show and now everyone is waiting to see how special the v10 version will be, and it too will be gaining DSG in the near future.

I agree that Porsche need this gearbox and a power increase badly to justify the demanded price, but ultimately they need a larger capacity engine which in it's current setup will only lead to more handling issues.
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      02-23-2008, 09:24 AM   #49
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I have had four Porsches, Boxster, Cayman and two Cayenne so I am a fan of the brand only I don't see the point of promoting the 911 in a world where the technology has moved on and now Porsche are very much at a disadvantage with it's layout. They need a mid-engine rival to the likes of Ferrari and Lamborghini and if any example proved this it was the R8, from nowhere it stole the show and now everyone is waiting to see how special the v10 version will be, and it too will be gaining DSG in the near future.

I agree that Porsche need this gearbox and a power increase badly to justify the demanded price, but ultimately they need a larger capacity engine which in it's current setup will only lead to more handling issues.
You know I have to agree with this, but I just love the classic 911 look. For me driving one is a dream, but they do need more power. I wish, like everyone else, that they would put 400 ponies and a limited slip diff in the Cayman.
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      02-23-2008, 12:50 PM   #50
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You know I have to agree with this, but I just love the classic 911 look. For me driving one is a dream, but they do need more power. I wish, like everyone else, that they would put 400 ponies and a limited slip diff in the Cayman.
It will come but not until the next version, by that time the 911'd role will be changed. Thank god.
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      02-23-2008, 08:05 PM   #51
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I am hoping they step up the 998 to a V8 because they will now need 400+hp to compete and i cannot see how it will happen with a V6.
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      02-23-2008, 10:51 PM   #52
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I am hoping they step up the 998 to a V8 because they will now need 400+hp to compete and i cannot see how it will happen with a V6.
Well, the MY2009 with optional X51 package will likely produce at least 400 hp and that is from the current boxer six. Even with 380 hp the power to weight advantage goes to Porsche.

Porsche does not use a V6 in the 911.

The 998 is probably due in 2011.
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      02-24-2008, 03:07 AM   #53
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I am hoping they step up the 998 to a V8 because they will now need 400+hp to compete and i cannot see how it will happen with a V6.
They currently have a 415hp NA flat-six that is being used in the GT3.
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      02-24-2008, 05:32 AM   #54
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They currently have a 415hp NA flat-six that is being used in the GT3.
Do you know how much a replacement GT3 engine is?

I think you will be shocked, this engine is design to race with special interals, think more than half the price of your M3 and you will be on the right lines.
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      02-24-2008, 07:54 AM   #55
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Do you know how much a replacement GT3 engine is?

I think you will be shocked, this engine is design to race with special interals, think more than half the price of your M3 and you will be on the right lines.
I think that he was talking about the 911S, that is why I did not eve mention the GT3.

Remember, the MY2009 GT3 is reportedly getting a power bump to 440hp from that 3.6L six.
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      02-24-2008, 10:27 AM   #56
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I think that he was talking about the 911S, that is why I did not eve mention the GT3.

Remember, the MY2009 GT3 is reportedly getting a power bump to 440hp from that 3.6L six.
Yes, i knew he was talking about the 911s. Since chaseM3 said that the next 998 should use a V8 and not a six to make over 400hp, I just pointed out that Porsche is already capable of putting out over 400hp with their current flat-six engine.
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      02-24-2008, 10:40 AM   #57
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Yes, i knew he was talking about the 911s. Since chaseM3 said that the next 998 should use a V8 and not a six to make over 400hp, I just pointed out that Porsche is already capable of putting out over 400hp with their current flat-six engine.
I was responding to Footie, hence the qouted response. No insult intended nor implied to either of you.
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      02-24-2008, 11:12 AM   #58
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I was responding to Footie, hence the qouted response. No insult intended nor implied to either of you.
Non taken at all bro, i was just explaining myself.
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      02-24-2008, 11:15 AM   #59
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Non taken at all bro, i was just explaining myself.
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