BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-03-2008, 02:18 PM   #1
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Top Gear Lexus IS-F review:

http://www.topgear.com/drives/C4/A9/...sts/12/01.html
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-03-2008, 03:55 PM   #2
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,747
iTrader: (0)

Nice find.

Seems like Lexus did a good job with the IS-F. Damn, another competitor.


"Plus, it dresses like a group of Vegas strippers: false bits all over the place. The vents behind the front wheels are just for show, and the side skirts don't appear to have any real use. But the worst bit of fakery are the four exhaust pipes, which are not connected to anything. Really, they're not. The real pipes finish a couple of inches before the four chrome rings even start."

"...it's much harder to give a car soul. To do that you have to understand the passion that makes a car fun to drive, fun to own and worth 50k. BMW has known how to do that for years, and more recently so have Audi and Mercedes. And now, for the first time with the IS-F, Lexus has too."


Best regards, south
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-03-2008, 07:57 PM   #3
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Competition is always good. But it obviously still has a lot of learning and improvements to do. Those disconnected exhaust has to go, even though it does'nt really bother me that much.
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-03-2008, 08:49 PM   #4
LH1
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: x
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: PA

Posts: 201
iTrader: (0)

Good review. I wonder if Clarkson and the other guys will like it?


I think not connecting the exhausts was a smart move by Lexus. They look ridiculous and if I was to get one, that'd be the first thing I'd change. Shouldn't take the aftermarket too long to come up with something more appropriate looking.
LH1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-04-2008, 01:41 AM   #5
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,135
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
But the worst bit of fakery are the four exhaust pipes, which are not connected to anything. Really, they're not. The real pipes finish a couple of inches before the four chrome rings even start."
Although I don't need a journalist to tell me proper diction I am glad that someone whom many respect and believe to be somewhat impartial chose the exact same word that you (gbb) wanted to argue about for pages.

Again, like I've always said, a very fast car, a nice car but with some serious flaws and not anywhere close to the M3.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-04-2008, 11:18 AM   #6
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
While I agree with swamp that it not close to the M3 does it really have to be?

We already have an M3 and we surely don't need a carbon copy, there is many ways to skin a cat and when you look at both the RS4 and C63 you see totally different product competing in the same market place. I don't know about you but if I didn't like how the M3 drove then I would hardly be considering the IS-F it is was something the same.

For me I am expecting the Lexus to offer a smooth and polished interpretation of a hi-performance saloon with a touch of luxury that the other seem to shy away from. It's take the position that Mercedes use to occupy with the C32 and C55.

Would I buy it? No because I am happy with the M3 but I don't doubt it will get some very satisfied customers.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      02-04-2008, 11:36 AM   #7
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Although I don't need a journalist to tell me proper diction I am glad that someone whom many respect and believe to be somewhat impartial chose the exact same word that you (gbb) wanted to argue about for pages.

Again, like I've always said, a very fast car, a nice car but with some serious flaws and not anywhere close to the M3.
If you would've look before you open your mouth, you would've found out that i posted a photo proving once and for all that the exhaust is not connected. And again, look up the meaning of the word "fake". So how exactly would you prove and justify that it is not anywhere close to the M3 if they have'nt been compared with each other yet? So far, straight line performances are pretty close, let's just wait and see till they are compared before you make another "conclusion" that has no proof. MOre than likely the M3 will win especially when it comes to handling.
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-04-2008, 03:32 PM   #8
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
gbb357,

You and swamp seem to be as bad as myself and T-Bone. It's not until you see someone else at it do you relies that it's plain stupid to be arguing over what are after all just cars.

Please remind me the next time I start. Probably later on tonight I suppose.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      02-04-2008, 03:54 PM   #9
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
gbb357,

You and swamp seem to be as bad as myself and T-Bone. It's not until you see someone else at it do you relies that it's plain stupid to be arguing over what are after all just cars.

Please remind me the next time I start. Probably later on tonight I suppose.
I see your point bro, you're right, it is kinda stupid. But it also makes it more entertaining. As long as it does'nt go too far, i hate it when that happens especially when i do it.
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-04-2008, 07:54 PM   #10
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

nice find I always enjoy reading articles like that
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-04-2008, 10:57 PM   #11
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,844
iTrader: (0)

too much FAKERY going on here. have you seen the plastic cover that looks like an engine? it hides a horrible looking mess of wires, excuse for an engine. speaking fo the engine its a worked over (by Yamaha, not Toyota) LS460 motor.
sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-05-2008, 02:21 AM   #12
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,135
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
too much FAKERY going on here. have you seen the plastic cover that looks like an engine? it hides a horrible looking mess of wires, excuse for an engine. speaking fo the engine its a worked over (by Yamaha, not Toyota) LS460 motor.
I agree about the looks of the engine but then again the M3s engine is not the best looking engine nor the best looking part of that car. I'm not so sure why folks dis the Lexus engine because it is based on the LS460 motor and because it is massaged/partially tuned/partially devleoped by Yamaha. They make some really mean, high hp/l street bikes that rev to 17.5 k rpm, yes that is 17,500. If you read a list of the innovations and tech. behind this engine I think it is quite respectable. Sodium filled valves - that is cool. Furthermore the M3 V8 is really close to the M5 V10 that is getting a bit aged, simply with two cylinders lopped off. Of course it is a new design but is it in many ways REALLY close to the M5 under the hood.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-05-2008, 10:48 AM   #13
sdiver68
Expert Road Racer
 
Drives: 07 335i e90, 09 335i e93
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 1,330
iTrader: (3)

Yamaha has long offered high performance tuning consulting services, similar to Porsche and Lotus and others. Remember the Taurus SHO of the mid-80's...220 HP was a lot back then for a sedan, engine developed by Yamaha.
sdiver68 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-05-2008, 03:30 PM   #14
abuzzl23p
Private
 
Drives: BMW 335i COLOR TBD
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Orlando-Gainesville, FL

Posts: 50
iTrader: (0)

i hate the fake pipes too but i hear that they're only on preproduction and press cars

also, i wouldn't complain about engine covers...sure BMW and other performance manufacturers like to display their engines sans coverings but from what i've heard this makes them hard to service because the placement of certain parts makes it hard to get to...the engine covers allow the frequently used parts easy to access without hurting the overall asthetic...not a bad thing
abuzzl23p is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-05-2008, 05:33 PM   #15
chicagobimmerboy
First Lieutenant
 
chicagobimmerboy's Avatar
 
Drives: Un esotico Italiano ;)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago suburbs

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Wait till the GS-F comes out (2011) by that time the F10 M5 should be out
GS-F: 500 HP V10
M5 (next-gen): 600+ V10

No competition, considering the F10 5 series will be lighter and more dynamic than this one. Toyota came too late, and as for that LF-A super car... anyone remember what happend to the NSX (was on competitive for only a model year or so)
chicagobimmerboy is offline   Italy
0
Reply With Quote
      02-05-2008, 06:32 PM   #16
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy View Post
Wait till the GS-F comes out (2011) by that time the F10 M5 should be out
GS-F: 500 HP V10
M5 (next-gen): 600+ V10

No competition, considering the F10 5 series will be lighter and more dynamic than this one. Toyota came too late, and as for that LF-A super car... anyone remember what happend to the NSX (was on competitive for only a model year or so)
As much as i like the NSX, The NSX was underpowered and overpriced. At the time it was out, you could get cars with similar power and performance for half the price. The choices where Supra TT, RX-7, Vette, 300ZX, and 3000GT VR-4 just to name a few. Toyota is not too late, it's never too late. They've already come out with a decent performer with the IS-F that matches the competition. It's just a matter of will it sell.

Last edited by gbb357; 02-05-2008 at 08:05 PM.
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-05-2008, 09:52 PM   #17
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,844
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
Yamaha has long offered high performance tuning consulting services, similar to Porsche and Lotus and others. Remember the Taurus SHO of the mid-80's...220 HP was a lot back then for a sedan, engine developed by Yamaha.

I agree. my point is that if Toyota and Lexus want a performance image they should be able to build and tune thier on thier own without outside consulting.
sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-06-2008, 08:29 AM   #18
sdiver68
Expert Road Racer
 
Drives: 07 335i e90, 09 335i e93
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 1,330
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
I agree. my point is that if Toyota and Lexus want a performance image they should be able to build and tune thier on thier own without outside consulting.
OK, but we are going to agree to disagree here. Outside consulting and outsourcing is standard practice for all the manufacturers. Some examples:

Porsche built cars for Mercedes.
Porsche licensed twin balancing shafts from Mitsubishi.
BMW uses Mitsubishi turbos
GM used Lotus to tune the ZR-1 Vette, and still use much the same head design today.
BMW uses GM transmissions.
Lotus uses BMW engines.
BMW partnered with Peugeot on engine development.

It's really just how the industry works.
sdiver68 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 12:02 AM   #19
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,844
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
OK, but we are going to agree to disagree here. Outside consulting and outsourcing is standard practice for all the manufacturers. Some examples:

Porsche built cars for Mercedes.
Porsche licensed twin balancing shafts from Mitsubishi.
BMW uses Mitsubishi turbos
GM used Lotus to tune the ZR-1 Vette, and still use much the same head design today.
BMW uses GM transmissions.
Lotus uses BMW engines.
BMW partnered with Peugeot on engine development.

It's really just how the industry works.
I still agree with you outsourcing for parts and consulting is common - even to BMW. but not for a ///M engine?? can you imagine the next M5 with a 750il motor tuned by ducati? never happen. thats why Motor is thier middle name.
sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:52 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST