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      01-17-2008, 06:59 PM   #89
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Ones on the left?
Just because I think G. Dub is a moron, doesn't make me a lefty. I must be a communist and a traitor because I don't have Chaney picture in my living room?
Think. Think God damn it!!
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      02-03-2008, 04:19 AM   #90
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Clinton rode the coat tails of Regan's investment in technology. Clinton didn't do dick to keep the pipeline full. Bush has managed quite well the crap that he inherited from Clinton.
That crap you are refering to that George Bush inherited from Bill Clinton is called a surplus. $5 trillion to be exact. Yes George Bush has managed quite well to turn that $5 trillion surplus into a national debt of about $8 trillion. Largest in US history. True fiscal conservatives should be up in arms over that.

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Is bush the best ever? Hell no.
That's an understatement.

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Am I better off now than I was 8 years ago? Hell yes.
Congratulations on your success over the last 8 years. Now ask some of the 2 million hard working Americans who have lost their homes to foreclosure over the last year the same question. You'll get a much different answer.

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Are you so ignorant that you're going to blame a sliding dollar and increasing inflation on one person??? You really don't understand economics very well.
You credit one person (President Reagan) for a good economy which you say Clinton benefited from and then you blame one person (President Clinton) for the economic problems Bush is having. Yet you say one person shouldn't be blamed for the country's economic problems. I would say you've argued quite well against the very point you're attempting to make.
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      02-03-2008, 08:07 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
That crap you are refering to that George Bush inherited from Bill Clinton is called a surplus. $5 trillion to be exact. Yes George Bush has managed quite well to turn that $5 trillion surplus into a national debt of about $8 trillion. Largest in US history. True fiscal conservatives should be up in arms over that.....
You moron. That surplus never existed. It was all on papaer making ridiculous assumptions. Clinton milked the system, played Peter Pan with the tax system, and ran the whole fuckin thing into the ground.
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      02-04-2008, 02:49 AM   #92
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You moron. That surplus never existed. It was all on papaer making ridiculous assumptions. Clinton milked the system, played Peter Pan with the tax system, and ran the whole fuckin thing into the ground.
Intelligent adults should be able to disagree without resorting to name calling, don't you think? Be grown and defend your argument by backing it up with facts. So far all you've done is state an opinion which seems to be based on nothing but your hatred of Bill Clinton.

It's pretty well documented that George Bush inherited a surplus from Bill Clinton. It's also well documented that George Bush has turned that surplus into the largest national debt in history. If you claim otherwise let's see some facts to back it up.
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      02-04-2008, 07:09 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
Intelligent adults should be able to disagree without resorting to name calling, don't you think? Be grown and defend your argument by backing it up with facts. So far all you've done is state an opinion which seems to be based on nothing but your hatred of Bill Clinton.

It's pretty well documented that George Bush inherited a surplus from Bill Clinton. It's also well documented that George Bush has turned that surplus into the largest national debt in history. If you claim otherwise let's see some facts to back it up.


I bet you he also thinks that all W said during the State of the Union Speech is true...
Bush is a lier, crook and a war criminal and should be treated as such.
He completely ruined the future of MANY children in this country, and is DIRECTLY responsible for deaths of more than 5000 of US soldiers in Iraq...

He blew through the surplus in no time and keeps wasting our money daily and dumb ass republicans loyal to him only see the tax breaks of today and do not realize what is going to happen in the future...
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      02-04-2008, 10:34 AM   #94
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I don't see the current international relations failure of the U.S. as a result of the Republican party, as much as I see it as the result of the Bush presidency.

I think a shitty democratic candidate could screw it up just as much, but I think it would be less likely.

I'm not a proponent of the Republican ideal of ‘Lets give the rich a bunch of money and sooner or later they will piss some of it to the poor.’ Trickle down theory is a crock.
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      02-04-2008, 12:43 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
Intelligent adults should be able to disagree without resorting to name calling, don't you think? Be grown and defend your argument by backing it up with facts. So far all you've done is state an opinion which seems to be based on nothing but your hatred of Bill Clinton.

It's pretty well documented that George Bush inherited a surplus from Bill Clinton. It's also well documented that George Bush has turned that surplus into the largest national debt in history. If you claim otherwise let's see some facts to back it up.

How might I prove the lack of existence of something that never existed in the first place? The surplus was on paper, based on growth projections that were unreal, and frankly, impossible.

Tell me, what did Clinton do to further the long-term growth of the economy so that surplus would actually happen? Where did he invest?
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      02-04-2008, 12:54 PM   #96
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I don't see the current international relations failure of the U.S. as a result of the Republican party, as much as I see it as the result of the Bush presidency.

I think a shitty democratic candidate could screw it up just as much, but I think it would be less likely.

I'm not a proponent of the Republican ideal of ‘Lets give the rich a bunch of money and sooner or later they will piss some of it to the poor.’ Trickle down theory is a crock.
I agree that Bush is too much of a cowboy for the rest of the world, and his foriegn policy certainly angered many. But I also don't agree with leaving people like the Taliban and Sadam Hussein to do as they please. That's how Hitler grew his power base.

I also don't think that the government is the best place to send our money to improve the welfare of the country. They've admitted over and over, through one privatization program after another, that private industry is more efficient. We do plent of gov't contracting, where they look to our industry (and many others) on how to do things better, cheaper and quicker.

It's private industry, specifically small companies, that drive job growth in this country. If we want to grow the job market, we need an environment that promotes job growth. I don't advocate "giving the rich a bunch of money", but make it desireable for people to start companies, and make it desireable for those companies to invest in people and equipment, and the economy will grow.

If I'm not mistaken, it was Clinton that negotiated NAFTA and started exporting jobs?
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      02-05-2008, 06:29 AM   #97
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How might I prove the lack of existence of something that never existed in the first place? The surplus was on paper, based on growth projections that were unreal, and frankly, impossible.
Seems what never existed in the first place is facts to back up your statements. Without proof, your statements are just opinions.

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Tell me, what did Clinton do to further the long-term growth of the economy so that surplus would actually happen? Where did he invest?
You conveniently forget that Clinton began his presidency with a sinking economy and huge budget deficit which he inherited from Bush 1. Although he is a democrat Clinton was a fiscal conservative. He used fiscal discipline to balance the budget and lower interest rates which jump started economy. He encouraged private investment and investment in technology with a global perspective. Under the Clinton administration more jobs were created than under Reagan and Bush 1 combined. He even passed welfare reform. Ironically Clinton turned out to be more of a fiscal conservative than the Republicans who preceeded him.

For the record, I'm not a big Bill Clinton fan, for instance I think it's clear NAFTA was a big mistake, but your statements about his record have just been factually incorrect. You're letting your hatred for Bill blind you to the facts. Next you'll probably deny that Bill Clinton presided over the longest economic expansion in US history. But if you do deny it, be sure to bring some facts to back up your statements, or should I say your opinions.
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      02-06-2008, 03:52 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
Seems what never existed in the first place is facts to back up your statements. Without proof, your statements are just opinions.



You conveniently forget that Clinton began his presidency with a sinking economy and huge budget deficit which he inherited from Bush 1. Although he is a democrat Clinton was a fiscal conservative. He used fiscal discipline to balance the budget and lower interest rates which jump started economy. He encouraged private investment and investment in technology with a global perspective. Under the Clinton administration more jobs were created than under Reagan and Bush 1 combined. He even passed welfare reform. Ironically Clinton turned out to be more of a fiscal conservative than the Republicans who preceeded him.

For the record, I'm not a big Bill Clinton fan, for instance I think it's clear NAFTA was a big mistake, but your statements about his record have just been factually incorrect. You're letting your hatred for Bill blind you to the facts. Next you'll probably deny that Bill Clinton presided over the longest economic expansion in US history. But if you do deny it, be sure to bring some facts to back up your statements, or should I say your opinions.

Well, we agree that NAFTA was a bad idea, and we're not Clinton fans.

I wouldn't, however, call Clinton a fiscal conservative - he presided over and supported the largest tax increase in history to cover his excess spending. When the economy hit high gear with the internet boom, those taxes produced more revenue than even the most liberal democrat could spend.

I don't hate Bill. I just don't think he did a very good job, and he left us holding a bag of shit going into the 21st century. Regan invested in the space program, military and incentivised companies to expand R&D. That's what gave us all the gee-whiz technology that fueled the productivity boom, new jobs and GDP expansion during Clinton's time. Bush 1 was a boob, just more reserved and less noticed than Bush 2. What did Clinton do to promote economic expansion during and after his presidency?
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      02-28-2008, 06:23 PM   #99
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Going back to OP, scotty is very active on other forums with more traffic, but can Barack or Hillary win this thing?

I'm just imagining Carl Rove in a dark room with Chaney preparing how swiftboat them.
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