BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-30-2008, 05:27 PM   #45
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,746
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
The impact of sport tires is disproportionately higher for heavier cars..... On street tires I would guess the RS6 is in the 8:20's.
Why was the M6 (on sport tires) only 4 seconds faster than the M5, then? Not that I don't want to believe you, but what's the reason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Audi did miss to mark that is the M5, reason is they were aiming for something higher.
Beating T_Bone at his own game?


Best regards, south
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 05:29 PM   #46
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
The impact of sport tires is disproportionately higher for heavier cars..... On street tires I would guess the RS6 is in the 8:20's.
Now your taking the piss.:finger:addle ::fight ing0030:
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 05:33 PM   #47
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Why was the M6 (on sport tires) only 4 seconds faster than the M5, then? Not that I wouldn't believe you, but what's the reason?

Best regards, south

The M6 was not on sport tires..... The only 2 tires types are the Contis and the PS2, neither are street tires. Some Pirellis were available but these were not R compound tires.

Also, the M5 / M6 also had a speed governer. Even the silly RS4 was able to reach a higher top speed than the M6.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 05:33 PM   #48
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Now your taking the piss.:finger:addle ::fight ing0030:
What are you calling out the tire comment or my guess at the 8:20s?
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 05:38 PM   #49
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Why was the M6 (on sport tires) only 4 seconds faster than the M5, then? Not that I wouldn't believe you, but what's the reason?

Best regards, south
South, you asked the question that I was just about to. Sports tyres don't make that much of a difference but they are used as an excuse for people who's cars don't have them and aren't performing as good as they expect. Good chassis design is much more important than tyres, knowledgeable people know this.

The CSL is as good as it is because it's got a great chassis, the M6 isn't much better than the M5 because it doesn't, plain and simple.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 05:40 PM   #50
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Why was the M6 (on sport tires) only 4 seconds faster than the M5, then? Not that I don't want to believe you, but what's the reason?


Best regards, south

South, I was wrong, Sportauto did use Pirellis but I am not sure if they were the R compounds...can you please translate?

Also here is a thread on the M6 performance - note the discussion on top speed.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=62313

South - care to translate this whole article?

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...57&postcount=7




__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 05:41 PM   #51
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
South, you asked the question that I was just about to. Sports tyres don't make that much of a difference but they are used as an excuse for people who's cars don't have them and aren't performing as good as they expect. Good chassis design is much more important than tyres, knowledgeable people know this.

The CSL is as good as it is because it's got a great chassis, the M6 isn't much better than the M5 because it doesn't, plain and simple.
You are smoking crack here my friend, go talk to any tracker about the importance of tires, the 8:09 time not withstanding.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 05:51 PM   #52
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
You are smoking crack here my friend, go talk to any tracker about the importance of tires, the 8:09 time not withstanding.
Not smoking crack, just the exhaust fumes of the RS6 while I am sitting along side you in the M6.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 05:52 PM   #53
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,746
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
South, I was wrong, Sportauto did use Pirellis but I am not sure if they were the R compounds...can you please translate?

Also here is a thread on the M6 performance - note the discussion on top speed.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=62313

South - care to translate this whole article?

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...57&postcount=7




Can't see these threads since I'm not registered on m5board (guess that's new?).
You're probably meaning the Supertest, I'm quite sure the M6 had Pirelli Corsa race tires. Will check it tomorrow, is a translation of the verdict ok?


Best regards, south
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 05:57 PM   #54
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Can't see these threads since I'm not registered on m5board (guess that's new?).
You're probably meaning the Supertest, I'm quite sure the M6 had Pirelli Corsa race tires. Will check it tomorrow, is a translation of the verdict ok?


Best regards, south
It was Corsa race tyres.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 06:18 PM   #55
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Can't see these threads since I'm not registered on m5board (guess that's new?).
You're probably meaning the Supertest, I'm quite sure the M6 had Pirelli Corsa race tires. Will check it tomorrow, is a translation of the verdict ok?


Best regards, south
I will post the JPEGs here..... I would like to hear the reviewers comments on why the Corsas sucked.... Certainly goes against the experience that I have had with R compounds... Was the test done in the wet?

Thanks...









__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 06:23 PM   #56
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,746
iTrader: (0)

Unfortunately the attachments from m5board don't work for me, either. But I'll look for a scan tomorrow and tell you what they said about the Pirellis.


Best regards, south
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 06:25 PM   #57
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Unfortunately the attachments from m5board don't work for me, either. But I'll look for a scan tomorrow and tell you what they said about the Pirellis.


Best regards, south
You don't see the JPEGs on this thread?? Humm.. Specifically if you can see how the testers traded off tires vs. top speed, that would be interesting. Also can you please provide some conclusion to whether the M6 8:09 time was done in the rain?

I will post your translation over on the M5board because we want to know .

Cheers man.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 06:50 PM   #58
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Also can you please provide some conclusion to whether the M6 8:09 time was done in the rain?
I can confirm that it was indeed done in the rain.




But the RS4 did it's identical time in the snow.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 07:05 PM   #59
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I can confirm that it was indeed done in the rain.
Thanks that partially explains the performance of the Corsas...R compounds all act funny & different when cold and wet.

What do you think of the 0-200 kph times?
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 07:19 PM   #60
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Thanks that partially explains the performance of the Corsas...R compounds all act funny & different when cold and wet.

What do you think of the 0-200 kph times?
Mate the rain thing was a joke.

As for the acceleration figures, what can I say the thing is one f--king fast car and I doubt the RS6 could equal that. But then again it doesn't have to as after all it is a 2 ton Estate car which happens to be bloody quick with all the all weather security that one expects from Audi wrapped up in the best interiors in the business.

If my S5 had it's poke then I doubt I would ever be changing to an M3, I wonder what the RS5 will be like, I wouldn't be surprised to see something the equal to the M6 in main a way but a lot more nimble.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2008, 07:25 PM   #61
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Mate the rain thing was a joke.

As for the acceleration figures, what can I say the thing is one f--king fast car and I doubt the RS6 could equal that. But then again it doesn't have to as after all it is a 2 ton Estate car which happens to be bloody quick with all the all weather security that one expects from Audi wrapped up in the best interiors in the business.

If my S5 had it's poke then I doubt I would ever be changing to an M3, I wonder what the RS5 will be like, I wouldn't be surprised to see something the equal to the M6 in main a way but a lot more nimble.
Nordschielfe is so big that weather is different at different parts of the track. I would like a German speaker to see what they said about the wet.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2008, 01:12 AM   #62
OzCarfreak
Private First Class
 
OzCarfreak's Avatar
 
Drives: Merc / BMW /Audi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney

Posts: 132
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Can you explain this?



or this?



0-60 RS4 is good....after that it gets walked because of the drivetrain losses
RS4 is quicker to 100klm/phour than the M3, burn offs from the lights the m gets walked. or are you going to say "hey can we go find an airfield" lol u tosser
OzCarfreak is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2008, 05:44 AM   #63
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzCarfreak View Post
RS4 is quicker to 100klm/phour than the M3, burn offs from the lights the m gets walked. or are you going to say "hey can we go find an airfield" lol u tosser
Don't be to hard on old T-Bone, he know not what he says.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2008, 07:38 AM   #64
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzCarfreak View Post
RS4 is quicker to 100klm/phour than the M3, burn offs from the lights the m gets walked. or are you going to say "hey can we go find an airfield" lol u tosser
Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Don't be to hard on old T-Bone, he know not what he says.

There there... You don't even need an airfield...any 3rd gear roll will demostrate Quattro's pathetic failure as a modern drivetrain. Sad really.


Before we bash each other too much here, I would like to hear what South has to say about below.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2008, 10:37 AM   #65
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Just read Autocar's first drive review of the RS6 is their impression of the car was glowing on everything apart from ride quality which maybe a problem in current stiffness for UK roads. Areas where the RS6 shone for them was engine, acceleration, handling, quality & engineering, smoothness and brakes. Areas which still need addressing are steering (not enough feel) and ride (too stiff for UK roads).

Regarding performance, in their opinion the car in terms of acceleration is in another league to the others, what they mean by this is anyone guess, maybe overall acceleration or in-gear acceleration but either way it IS a force to be reckoned with. Handling, they were very surprised by the handling, it's body control was exceptional for what is a heavy car and the car is exceptional nimble, changing direction extremely well and in their opinion a match for the M5, though still they feel the M5 is the more involving.

It is the first very favourable report so far, most have been so, so but as the was Chris Harris (the guy with the M3) I believe this report might be the closest to the truth.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2008, 10:59 AM   #66
dechoong
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: E60 530 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: KL

Posts: 359
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Just read Autocar's first drive review of the RS6 is their impression of the car was glowing on everything apart from ride quality which maybe a problem in current stiffness for UK roads. Areas where the RS6 shone for them was engine, acceleration, handling, quality & engineering, smoothness and brakes. Areas which still need addressing are steering (not enough feel) and ride (too stiff for UK roads).

Regarding performance, in their opinion the car in terms of acceleration is in another league to the others, what they mean by this is anyone guess, maybe overall acceleration or in-gear acceleration but either way it IS a force to be reckoned with. Handling, they were very surprised by the handling, it's body control was exceptional for what is a heavy car and the car is exceptional nimble, changing direction extremely well and in their opinion a match for the M5, though still they feel the M5 is the more involving.

It is the first very favourable report so far, most have been so, so but as the was Chris Harris (the guy with the M3) I believe this report might be the closest to the truth.
That is the same review in the link I've provided in the 1st post under this thread. Did you miss it?
dechoong is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST