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      01-28-2008, 02:26 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spearfisher View Post
If I were you I wouldn't go on Pinks and race a 08 C6 with an M3 if I were you or with your 535d, even if you produce a Polish publication showing the 535d being faster than the C6.


I would trust these sources instead

here is tests done by car and driver
08 C6
http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/d..._z51_08_ss.pdf
08 M3
http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/d...mwm3_08_ss.pdf
08 IS-F
http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/d...xisf_08_ss.pdf

here is more stuff for your knowledge

and these sources have the 08 C6 LS3 quicker than the Audi R8 and the R8 is faster than the M3.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6169

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...5/pageNumber=1

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/27/2...and-up-to-436/

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/...nvertible.html

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6281

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-corvette.html
I am sorry if I've upset you. Its just a review I found on the net. I see that you are a proud owner and getting touchy. The review is German not Polish and I tend to trust the jerries when it comes to cars. I dont know much about the vettes and their versions and mods but in the review I have dug up I see really poor slalom and track times on the vette's behalf. Anyway, even if you put all the power in the world in an American Supersports car thats made of plastic and has an interior taken out of a Lada it would never come any closer to being a poised and sorted driving machine that an M3 is.

btw the c&d review of the M3 has some really poor data, maybe they had a lemon test car. I'm sure you've seen the r&t (also AMERICAN) figures for the M3 0-400@12.5. And there is still DCT and CSL to come...
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      01-28-2008, 04:32 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorun View Post
I am sorry if I've upset you. Its just a review I found on the net. I see that you are a proud owner and getting touchy. The review is German not Polish and I tend to trust the jerries when it comes to cars. I dont know much about the vettes and their versions and mods but in the review I have dug up I see really poor slalom and track times on the vette's behalf. Anyway, even if you put all the power in the world in an American Supersports car thats made of plastic and has an interior taken out of a Lada it would never come any closer to being a poised and sorted driving machine that an M3 is.

btw the c&d review of the M3 has some really poor data, maybe they had a lemon test car. I'm sure you've seen the r&t (also AMERICAN) figures for the M3 0-400@12.5. And there is still DCT and CSL to come...

no offense taken, but the thread is exactly what it says, is a C6 faster than a M3? the answer is no
I unlike you didn't put down any makes, I was a former BMW owner and respect all cars for what they are, you apparently don't, as as much as I can talk til I'm blue in the face, I know you'll never admit the C6 is faster but, the fact remains that a 08 C6 LS3 is faster than a M3 in a straight line and on the track right now, things might change in the future, but not right now. You'll see the chrome tail pipes on that plastic car 10 out of 10 times.

I know the review you found was in German I was being sarcastic

I trust the reviews of the of R&T and C&D, very reliable sources.


just for your information, don't race a C6 on the track for pinks, that would not be very smart on your part. cheers old bloke
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      01-28-2008, 04:48 PM   #47
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Just noticed that you are talking about a modded Vette thats pushing close to 440 bhp and comparing it to a stock M3. The stock Vette (404ps) runs 8.15 on the Ring and the M3 beats that by full 11 seconds. Now thats a lot! The Z51 Vette does 7.59. I believe the DCT car is going to have that (I've ordered one). The CSL is going to be in another league but will cost a leg, the standart m3 already costs an arm over here.

I'll take my chances with a C6 lets just hope the DCT is all that its hyped to be!
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      01-28-2008, 05:17 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorun View Post
Just noticed that you are talking about a modded Vette thats pushing close to 440 bhp and comparing it to a stock M3. The stock Vette (404ps) runs 8.15 on the Ring and the M3 beats that by full 11 seconds. Now thats a lot! The Z51 Vette does 7.59. I believe the DCT car is going to have that (I've ordered one). The CSL is going to be in another league but will cost a leg, the standart m3 already costs an arm over here.

I'll take my chances with a C6 lets just hope the DCT is all that its hyped to be!
Yes your info is correct the 2005 Z51 C6 does do 7:59 on the ring.

I'm sure the DCT, will be a great if as good as predicted, it will be faster than a standard M3, just like how the Audi S-tronic and VW DSG, shift quicker and as a result post quicker 1/4 mile times.

The LS3 is not a modded car, it's the new motor that comes standard in all C6's as of 08, modded C6's with just bolt ons when driven right do high 11's in the qtr with a trap speed in the 120's, and not faster due to traction problems.

we will leave the ring time to the professionals, I'm sure they will come out with times in the future and we will see then.
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      01-29-2008, 04:20 PM   #49
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Well...it's very hard to predict! The C6 has 404 hp, while the Bimmer has 420! But...the C6 it's more aerodynamic then the M3. My call: THE M3!!!
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      01-29-2008, 04:56 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m0n0x!de View Post
Well...it's very hard to predict! The C6 has 404 hp, while the Bimmer has 420! But...the C6 it's more aerodynamic then the M3. My call: THE M3!!!
The 2008 C6 is 430hp.
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      01-29-2008, 07:06 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShuke View Post
hey man...sorry to tell you this, but the m3 was on cup + tires...the vette was on run flats. those cup tires are prob worth a good 10-12 seconds over the run flats. on the same tires, the m3 would be slower.
had the m3 been on ps2s it would run 8:10-8:12, it it were on run flats like the vetter, prob closer to 8:20.
so apples to apples, the vette is faster.
So what tyres is the M3 in my first post wearing cause its seems to whip the vette pretty badly?
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      01-29-2008, 10:01 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorun View Post
So what tyres is the M3 in my first post wearing cause its seems to whip the vette pretty badly?
I think your refering to the base C6,

you have to compare the C6 with the factory Z51 handling package, it's only fair. Yes the M3 does have a better track time than the base C6, but since the M3 is the high performance variant of the 3 series it's only fair you compare the C6 with the optional Z51 package.

here are times

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times
http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=476
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073


but remember the car has evolved from 2005, comparing the 08 M3 to a 05 C6 is not fair, compare a 08 C6 to a 08 M3, but even then a 05 c6 Z51 does post better times than the 08 M3.

remember when the Ferrari 360 Modena was the bomb, it still is, but now a RS4 or M3 or C6 will beat it performance wise.
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      01-29-2008, 10:30 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShuke View Post
hey man...sorry to tell you this, but the m3 was on cup + tires...the vette was on run flats. those cup tires are prob worth a good 10-12 seconds over the run flats. on the same tires, the m3 would be slower.
had the m3 been on ps2s it would run 8:10-8:12, it it were on run flats like the vetter, prob closer to 8:20.
so apples to apples, the vette is faster.
the mans got a point, he knows his facts.

I'm not a big fan of the run flats, a lot of people refer to them as run craps, but hey I don't have a spare, so I'll live with them.

I'm not disputing the M3 is not a great performing vehicle, it is, If I had to take more than myself and 1 person around I'd get the M3, loved my 02 M3 and my 04 330ci, but I just wanted something that was capable of 11's with just bolt ons and 600 rwh, with a supercharger, and that was reliable with that much HP and trust me that rush of torque and HP in a 3100lb vehicle is great.

fact remain guys, a 08 C6 Z51 is faster than a M3 in a striaght line and on the track.
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      01-30-2008, 02:53 AM   #54
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Ok, here are my thoughts on what we have established in this highly unscientific discussion:

E92 M3 6MT runs pretty even with 404ps C6 vette beats it on track, handling etc.

E92 M3 6MT loses to LS3, Z51 in all disciplines

E92 M3 DCT might run the above close on acceleration (depends on how good the box turns out to be) but most likely will lose on track (still a softie)

E92 M3 CSL DCT would most certainly whip all vettes bar ZR1 (Z51, LS3 and Z06) on track. It would be interesting to see how it copes with the Z06 in acceleration tests.


btw here is something that would put them all to bed

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080129....rochure-leaked
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      01-30-2008, 03:33 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorun View Post
Ok, here are my thoughts on what we have established in this highly unscientific discussion:

E92 M3 6MT runs pretty even with 404ps C6 vette beats it on track, handling etc.

E92 M3 6MT loses to LS3, Z51 in all disciplines

E92 M3 DCT might run the above close on acceleration (depends on how good the box turns out to be) but most likely will lose on track (still a softie)

E92 M3 CSL DCT would most certainly whip all vettes bar ZR1 (Z51, LS3 and Z06) on track. It would be interesting to see how it copes with the Z06 in acceleration tests.


btw here is something that would put them all to bed

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080129....rochure-leaked
sounds pretty scientific to me

but any way there are a lot of vehicles, that will out perform the vehicles in question and the GTR is just one of them. If you look on the links of the times for the ring it should show most of them.
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      02-03-2008, 01:35 PM   #56
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This is amazing

I own an 08 c6 z51 and a 335 vert. I spent two days at the nurburgring F-1
track and the NS with the New M-3 ( 6 spd manual)

The C-6 is faster and will out lap the M-3 easily. on the longer NS the Corvette is somewhat squirley, and not as easy to keep on the road as the M-3. The Corvette in 08 has 436 HP and is considerably lighter than the
M-3 The C-6 6Mn Z51 will do under an 8 and the M-3 over an 8

Read all the reports you want, make all the computer models you want and
then drive both, ummm the c-6 is just slightly slower than a Ferrari 430 !

The M-3 is a great car, I ordered a sedan with the DCT, nicest 4 door you could scare the hell out of people with
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      02-07-2008, 03:11 PM   #57
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Quote:
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good write up from our german brother! great assesment, and spot on!
I agree
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      02-09-2008, 02:42 PM   #58
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I have no idea how those numbers came about, but unless the new car is a bunch lighter than early indications suggest (in which case I may lose $100 to another noter), they don't add up.

Bruce
This is starting to sound like a chevy commercial. Chevy might be able to put huge 7 plus liter engines in their cars but the engineering doesn't come close to BMW standards. Who cares if the Corvette ends up being a few tenths of a second faster, everyone here knows that the M3 rules. And plus, aren't Corvettes only for middle-aged men with mullets?
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      02-10-2008, 12:46 AM   #59
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[quote=Krueger///M3;2120290]...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krueger///M3 View Post
Chevy might be able to put huge 7 plus liter engines in their cars but the engineering doesn't come close to BMW standards.
I'm not sure what "huge" means in this context, but just so you know, the 6.2 LS3 motor in the new Vette weighs 433 pounds, while the 7 liter Z06 tips the scales at 453 pounds. These seem to match up fairly well with the 445 pound M3 V8, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krueger///M3 View Post
Who cares if the Corvette ends up being a few tenths of a second faster, everyone here knows that the M3 rules.
In my particular kingdom, the new M3 has yet to be crowned. I'll try one out, but after my disappointment with our E46 M3 (mostly due to size and weight), I'm thinking the new one may be too much of a porker to be really fun to drive.

Looks as if you also think that the new Vette will be quicker and faster than the M3, so we at least agree on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krueger///M3 View Post
And plus, aren't Corvettes only for middle-aged men with mullets?
Good one!

Most of us can make up our own minds about cars, however, and in case you hadn't noticed, BMW owners/drivers are also routinely ridiculed. If you really, really care about your image, please buy whatever you think you should buy in order to prop it up.

Bruce
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      02-10-2008, 04:04 AM   #60
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I'm not sure what "huge" means in this context, but just so you know, the 6.2 LS3 motor in the new Vette weighs 433 pounds, while the 7 liter Z06 tips the scales at 453 pounds. These seem to match up fairly well with the 445 pound M3 V8, no?
engine is the only thing corvette has. to be fair, even the engine is nothing special. bmw can extract 100hp+/liter any day, out of any engine.

while ls3 and ls7 are more advanced than predecessors, there is absolutely zero technological advancement. engine is still a push-rod with 16 valves and getting 505hp out of 7L or 436 out of 6.2L is nothing special. of course in a typical GM matter, to obtain extra 36hp, instead of revising intake/exhaust sides out of their previous 6L engine, chevy increases displacement. how innovative!!!

haven't been following on suspension. are they still on leaf springs? interior is still out of a rental malibu and on-center steering feel is disastrous in comparison to any other $50k performance car.

great power bargain for drag strip. thats about it.
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      02-10-2008, 04:14 AM   #61
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Nice first post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krueger///M3 View Post
This is starting to sound like a chevy commercial. Chevy might be able to put huge 7 plus liter engines in their cars but the engineering doesn't come close to BMW standards. Who cares if the Corvette ends up being a few tenths of a second faster, everyone here knows that the M3 rules. And plus, aren't Corvettes only for middle-aged men with mullets?

I do not have a mullet, not enough hair, I own a C-6 and have track time in a
M3 both e-46 and in the E-92 series

I would place money on the fact that you haven't driven the New M-3
(safe bet) so saying it rules it a bit naive, especially since you have not
experienced the new Corvette.

The engineering of the Corvette is much better than you think, The BMW is
a well engineered, wonderful sports coupe that holds 4 people. I have ordered mine and will pick it up in Munich in March.

The seat time in an M-3 shows it is a great car, the Corvette surprised me,
and yes I know this is an M3 forum.

Don't (dis)respect what you do not know, or what you have not experienced

I never thought I would own a Corvette, in fact i had a lot of prejudice against them, until I drove a C6 at Portland International raceway. It is a world class handling car, and I dissed Corvettes for the last 20 years

The M-3 is like having a family car you can race, its that good. the
Corvette is more difficult to drive fast on rough surfaces, overall it will put a grin on your face at least equal to the M-3 for 20K less.

being open minded and respectful may help

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      02-10-2008, 09:37 AM   #62
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Hi guys, what is BMW doing about the Merc C63?
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      02-10-2008, 09:42 AM   #63
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It's amazing how ignorrant some people can be. Just because it's OHV does'nt mean it's not advance, as a matter of fact it is one of the most advance engine on the market. GM can easily make a small engine with lots of power if they wanted to. The Northstar V8 was making 300hp 10yrs ago with only 4.6 liters, while the BMW 750 with the 5.4 V12 was making around 320hp at the same year. And another thing, the Corvette in GT1 class has been winning for several years now in American LeMans, competing against Porsches and BMW's using basically the same technology you would find in the Street version. So please people, stop being ignorrant. Especially if you haven't even driven the car, and stop making false statements.
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      02-10-2008, 10:52 AM   #64
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I have mocked the Corvette for years as an "old guy mid life crisis car". With C-6 I have come around. This is a really cool car and appeals to me on many levels. Performance is stellar and the price is right. The problem is it isn't as forgiving and dynamic on the livability chart. Plus, it has been been my experience that with the GM sports cars you get a lot of shakes and rattles over time, and the cars don't sound and feel very tight just a few years out.
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      02-10-2008, 03:36 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malter2.0 View Post
engine is the only thing corvette has. to be fair, even the engine is nothing special. bmw can extract 100hp+/liter any day, out of any engine.

while ls3 and ls7 are more advanced than predecessors, there is absolutely zero technological advancement. engine is still a push-rod with 16 valves and getting 505hp out of 7L or 436 out of 6.2L is nothing special. of course in a typical GM matter, to obtain extra 36hp, instead of revising intake/exhaust sides out of their previous 6L engine, chevy increases displacement. how innovative!!!

haven't been following on suspension. are they still on leaf springs? interior is still out of a rental malibu and on-center steering feel is disastrous in comparison to any other $50k performance car.

great power bargain for drag strip. thats about it.
Ya, and your technologically advanced S65 does not have the horsepower, torque, and worst of all, efficiency of new GT2, huge 8.4 Viper, or Z06. Now that is "technological advancement" at it's shining best. Please show me a more powerful and efficient production engine from the mighty M or any any auto manufacturer for that matter, that can match the lowly Chevy push rod LS9 in the ZR1. Please show me.

Read any reviews of the the M3's on-center steering feel? It can't even compete with a base 328.

By the way have you seen the interiors in the 2008 Vettes. Makes the M3's interior look like you are attending a funeral.
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      02-10-2008, 04:08 PM   #66
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Ya, and your technologically advanced S65 does not have the horsepower, torque, and worst of all, efficiency of new GT2, huge 8.4 Viper, or Z06. Now that is "technological advancement" at it's shining best. Please show me a more powerful and efficient production engine from the mighty M or any any auto manufacturer for that matter, that can match the lowly Chevy push rod LS9 in the ZR1. Please show me.

Read any reviews of the the M3's on-center steering feel? It can't even compete with a base 328.

By the way have you seen the interiors in the 2008 Vettes. Makes the M3's interior look like you are attending a funeral.
Corvettes are clearly not for just street/drag racing anymore. They handle and brake beautifully. Yes, we can argue back and forth about the merits of a technologically advanced engine, but in the end it's what the engine yields and uses that's important. There is no denying that the vette, especially the Z cars provide of lot of yield for a lot less use than the M does. Power per liter is impressive on a stat sheet and from an engineering viewpoint (I truely admire that), but it doesn't really matter unless you have racing restrictions that limit displacement. As we all know, there are none on the street. I am still a fan of the techno group (basically BMW/Porsche) but Corvettes compete very nicely for a whole lot less money and fuel. Too bad that stigma still attaches.

Ruff, as far as interiors go, I think that you are crazy. I spent some time in a 2008 Z06 and LS3 (test driving them) and I have to say, the interiors are cheap. BMW's are spartan and appear to be of a lessor quality than previous years but there is no way that Chevy has bested them in interior quailty.

Anyway, to the point, I think that although the M's speed numbers seem to be a little faster, the LS3 will still take the M in raw street races. I've seen this so many times where car X posts better performance numbers in the mags/rags, then on the street common sense prevails. Common sense here is power to weight by a large margin in favor of the Corvette. I would assume that the vette has better tire contact and less drag too.

Last edited by devo; 02-10-2008 at 04:29 PM.
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