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      01-20-2008, 11:26 PM   #23
GregW / Oregon
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Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Dude, that is the term. Don't chastize me for using BMW's term. The technology is still useful for the NA market.
No, "regeneration" is not subject to interpretation except in BMW marketing. I'm only trying to get you to understand what it should mean. In hybrids and electric cars, braking force is resisted by motor-generators that create power from the dissipating the momentum of the car. No way the M3 has any system like this. All BMW is doing is disengaging the alternator during load conditions, which does save energy. The power it is producing under overrun is normally produced in any car. The energy that is saved is the force to drive the alternator along at higher load conditions. I agree it is an efficeincy, but IMO they are stretching the language.
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      01-20-2008, 11:28 PM   #24
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I understand what it does. Would you rather me call it by a name that noones knows and isn't identified in BMW literature?
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      01-20-2008, 11:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
I understand what it does. Would you rather me call it by a name that noones knows and isn't identified in BMW literature?
If you understood this you would not be wondering if the M3 has a special battery. Peace!
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      01-20-2008, 11:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
If you understood this you would not be wondering if the M3 has a special battery. Peace!

Why are you having such a hard time with this?????


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Called "Brake Energy Regeneration," BMW's solution is to plop in an oversized battery and engage the alternator only during deceleration. By actively controlling the alternator and battery charge electronically, the alternator just freewheels happily during cruise and acceleration while the battery supplies the necessary juice for the car.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...leId=115127#14
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      01-20-2008, 11:46 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Why are you having such a hard time with this?????

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...leId=115127#14
Because BMW is misusing the term "brake energy regeneration". Why would you think a special battery is required if the alternator is just cutting out part of the time? The only thing special about the battery is that it's a little larger to cover the period when charging is not taking place.
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      01-21-2008, 12:02 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Because BMW is misusing the term brake energy regeneration. Why would you think a special battery is required if the alternator is just cutting out part of the time?
Greg, I am really surprised at you for all this.
I guess I will spoonfeed you the required info.
I just proved to you why I would be looking for a special battery and you still won't relent.

Quote:
Another feature on the car, will be a high-capacity glass mat battery, which enables rapid re-charging during braking.
http://germancarscene.com/2007/01/12...-petrol-model/


Quote:
With the number of charge cycles increasing thanks to these specific control functions, BMW combines Intelligent Alternator Control with AGM (absorbant glass mat) batteries able to handle a higher load than conventional lead/acid batteries.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...troduces_.html

Quote:
To maximise the service life of the battery and set off the higher flow of energy, BMWs system of intelligent energy management operating in conjunction with new AGM battery technology introduces so-called regeneration cycles.
This means that higher voltage pulses are delivered to the battery after a certain charging and discharging phase in order to provide appropriate phases of regeneration.
http://bmwheaven.bmwsport.net/content/view/127/1/1/3/

@Tbone
From what I have read, it looks like the 1-series also get BER. So if they have the same battery and it is larger than normal, then that is one clue that the models might come with BER.
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      01-21-2008, 12:13 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Greg, I am really surprised at you for all this.
I guess I will spoonfeed you the required info.
I just proved to you why I would be looking for a special battery and you still won't relent.
Epacy, I'll give you the "special" battery point. It's a little larger and can handle more charge cycles. What I don't know yet that you grasp, is that is not because of some "regenerative" function of the car.

One more shot at this, then I'm going to bed. In most every car, the alternator spins happily away producing power all the time and keeping the battery topped off. What BMW is doing now is only engaging the alternator when the propulsion power required of the engine is low. Is this somehow newfound energy? No. Every car produces electrical power under these conditions. The efficient part is that an alternator load is not added to the propulsive load. So, the alternator is only making power part of the time, requiring a larger battery that can carry the car theough the periods when power isn't being generated and stand more frequent off/on charging. Is this efficient? YES. Is this regeneration? Absolutely NOT. I wonder if you are cruising for hours on a level freeway if the alternator eventually cuts in--seems like it would have to.

I understand now your battery fixation. I don't understand BMW's stretching the facts.
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      01-21-2008, 12:21 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Epacy, I'll give you the "special" battery point. It's a little larger and can handle more charge cycles. What I don't know yet that you grasp, is that is not because of some "regenerative" function of the car.

One more shot at this, then I'm going to bed. In most every car, the alternator spins happily away producing power all the time and keeping the battery topped off. What BMW is doing now is only engaging the alternator when the propulsion power required of the engine is low. Is this somehow newfound energy? No. Every car produces power under these conditions. The efficient part is that an alternator load is not added to the propulsive load. So, the alternator is only making power part of the time, requiring a larger battery that can carry the car theough the periods when power isn't being generated and stand more frequent off/on charging. Is this efficient? YES. Is this regeneration? Absolutely NOT.

I understand now your battery fixation. I don't understand BMW's stretching the facts.
This "not understanding regeneration" is some concoction of your mind.
You seem to be fixated on this aspect. I have never led on that I believe it to be anything other than what BMW has stated. I have discussed this in other threads in the past as well.
I have told you I understand BMW's implementation. There is nothing else I can do if you, for some reason, fail to acknowledge that.
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      01-21-2008, 12:27 AM   #31
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      01-21-2008, 12:34 AM   #32
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      01-21-2008, 12:43 AM   #33
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I wonder if this BER is even measurable from a MPG perspective. Or it is just another widget.
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      01-21-2008, 01:12 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Dude, that is the term. Don't chastize me for using BMW's term. The technology is still useful for the NA market.
+1. Terrible choice of terminology but we are stuck with it. There is some very loose form of regeneration if you consider that that battery is only charged on no throttle coast down, the cars kinetic energy is regenerated into battery charge. Of course all std. electrical systems since 1950 already do this so again to BMW marketing.

I am quite eager to learn if the US gets BER.
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      01-21-2008, 01:15 AM   #35
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Tbone, would you say the battery was roughly 13in x 6in x 7in (length x width x height)? If you can recall.

I gotta say, looking at the second hi-rez pic, it looks like the battery could indeed be 1ft+.
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      01-21-2008, 12:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Tbone, would you say the battery was roughly 13in x 6in x 7in (length x width x height)? If you can recall.

I gotta say, looking at the second hi-rez pic, it looks like the battery could indeed be 1ft+.

The battery in the M3 was in the sedan so you should be able to approximate the size that way.

Unfortunately, I didn't take photograph a part of my body where I could have showed you how a foot-long was.

On the 1 series, the battery took up the entire lower part of the trunk.
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      01-21-2008, 03:17 PM   #37
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I apologize if this was discussed already, but the reflectors are *definitely* stick-on?
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      01-21-2008, 04:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvacha View Post
I apologize if this was discussed already, but the reflectors are *definitely* stick-on?
I think pictures from the NA show has shown that it is definitely NOT stick-on and rather has an indentation in the bumper itself that fits the size of the reflectors. Being that I ordered an AW I'm hoping I can find a white reflector to replace it and hope that's enough to hide it.
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      01-21-2008, 04:50 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonkers View Post
I think pictures from the NA show has shown that it is definitely NOT stick-on and rather has an indentation in the bumper itself that fits the size of the reflectors. Being that I ordered an AW I'm hoping I can find a white reflector to replace it and hope that's enough to hide it.
I hope your wrong
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      01-21-2008, 05:28 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Yonkers View Post
I think pictures from the NA show has shown that it is definitely NOT stick-on and rather has an indentation in the bumper itself that fits the size of the reflectors. Being that I ordered an AW I'm hoping I can find a white reflector to replace it and hope that's enough to hide it.
Prepainted reflectors will surely be available from the ususal sources (evosport, Bimmian, etc.). I may fill and paint the cover, though I should wait until the first parking damage occurs.
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      01-21-2008, 05:51 PM   #41
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I hope your wrong
Sadly I'm not. Here is a picture posted by Sashah60 in the Detroit Auto show thread. It's clearly a cutout or indentation of some sort.

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      01-21-2008, 06:14 PM   #42
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Thanks Yonkers. I suspected I missed it and I did
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      01-21-2008, 06:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonkers View Post
Being that I ordered an AW I'm hoping I can find a white reflector to replace it and hope that's enough to hide it.
Or you could order orange through Individual...
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      01-21-2008, 08:40 PM   #44
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He he, Shirts off, group hug.
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