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      01-15-2008, 04:08 PM   #23
swamp2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo871 View Post
it may sound stupid but....does anyone think that this new double clutch gearbox will be available on other e90 models like 335d? just asking....
DCT is one form or another, though not "M-DCT" will work its way across nearly every BMW model.
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      01-15-2008, 04:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Excellent, wow what a read. I'm so excited.

I prediced 40-50 lb and .28 seconds gains respectively. Again as much as 0-60 is bragging rights, and not really as important as 0-100, this means we will likely see a sub 4.0s 0-60 run and it likely means they nailed LC pretty well. But it does leave the big question will the US get the same LC as EU? I sure hope so.

Other comments - details I found particularly interesting:
  • Supports engine rpm of up to 9000! (where will the CSL fall?)
  • Shift times: The upshifts take "a few milliseconds" . This is consitent with VW DSG CLAIMS of 8 ms, but not consitent with more reasonable estimates of what DSG actually obtains (30 ms)
  • It does have different ratios and a drastically different final drive
  • It is a dry sump unit with 9 liters of fluid, wow, cool
  • BMW used substantial knowledge of SMG to develop DCT, again as I predicted. It probably amounts to a lot of software re-use
  • Progressive yellow to red shift lights and the ability to turn them off
  • Solid aluminum paddles - nice
  • Auto kick down to best gear for max accelration - fantastic for freeway cruising to "race" mode in an instant

My CarTest simulations are included below. I really thought they would use the same final drive but did not. My predictions of combined gear ratios were within 10% and acceleration numbers were almost dead on comparing the final sim based on known specs with my guesses on specs. Looks like the DCT will be a touch slower on absolute top speed. But faster all the way through 175. I have used the weight figures from the DCT press release. 1 is 6MT, 2 are my initial predictions (just updating the weight), 3 is sim with final specs.
Good post Swamp. 0-100mph under 10sec!

Did you see my post on total reductions? Why is it lower for M-DCT in 1st gear?
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      01-15-2008, 04:10 PM   #25
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Good to see BMW is overengineering the tranny to work at up to 9,000RPM and to cope with extra horsepower and torque, that must be good news for the tuners. The DSS system VW is using apparently isn't rated for more than 250 horsepower (thereabouts) so people who plan to mod their MkV GTIs and newer A4s often opt for the manual transmission.
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      01-15-2008, 04:11 PM   #26
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Does anyone know how fast the DCT is? I know in the official documentation they say "a few miliseconds". I know Audi's DSG was 8 miliseconds.
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      01-15-2008, 04:24 PM   #27
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      01-15-2008, 04:49 PM   #28
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BMW, please confirm US availability and price, please.
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      01-15-2008, 04:55 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Good post Swamp. 0-100mph under 10sec!

Did you see my post on total reductions? Why is it lower for M-DCT in 1st gear?
And if you believe the outlier time R&T got of 9.4 to 100 for the 6MT then we could see a sub 9.0 second run to 100 with M-DCT. That is freaking fast.

Not entirely sure about the gearing. Sims indicate better performance across the board with a larger 1st gear ratio. I also predicted they could both better the acceleration and simultaneously better the top speed. The gains in 0-X speed times at lower speeds are mostly from shift time reductions. Since the 6MT car is already likely highly traction limited in 1st they do achieve a higher top speed in 1st gear 44 vs. 42 and perhaps let the DCT clutching manage the traction more efficiently. Also, by having the DCT car fully accelerating while the MT car shifts you really gain some ground. If the DCT car had a larger total gear ratio product it would have to shift before the MT car and would be in 2nd gear, earlier, accelerating less compared to the MT still in 1st. The launch control things at work would be difficult to impossible to simulate with CarTest as well. It may also have to do with the total gear ratio way out in 7th being slightly more oriented toward efficiency rather than performance.
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      01-15-2008, 05:00 PM   #30
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I am wondering if it would work as well as the other dual clutch transmissions in the real world (aka street-auto mode). The SMG's biggest flaw is that the shift is jerky in auto mode and not very suitable for daily use. I hope the new trans would make this as smooth as the VW-DSG seems to be.
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      01-15-2008, 05:19 PM   #31
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      01-15-2008, 05:27 PM   #32
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Wow... just when I was starting to consider 6MT.... M-DCT sounds like a must-have option. Pretty convincing!
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      01-15-2008, 05:32 PM   #33
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Who cares...my 335 is still faster!!
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      01-15-2008, 05:38 PM   #34
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The whole M-DCT talk has me drooling for one. I am now seriously considering passing on my ordered status 112 6MT car and waiting for the first M-DCT car my dealer gets. What a dilemma this is! I've always been an instant gratification kind of guy and have always planned on the 6MT from the start, but the M-DCT is starting too look real good the more I hear and read about it, and although no official US production date has been announced, I can't see why it would be too far off from the europeans. I wish BMW would give us some info already.... would make my decision that much easier. If it's March-June production, I can wait but longer than that I'm not so sure.

Last edited by masmole; 01-15-2008 at 09:16 PM.
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      01-15-2008, 05:43 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masmole View Post
The whole M-DCT talk has me drooling for one. I am now seriously considering passing on my ordered status 112 6MT car and waiting for the first M-DCT car my dealer gets. What a dilemma this is! I've always been an instant gratification kind of guy and have always planned on the 6MT from the start, but the M-DCT is starting too look like real good the more I hear and read about it, and although no official US production date has been announced, I can't see why it would be too far off from the europeans. I wish BMW would give us some info already.... would make my decision that much easier. If it's March-June production, I can wait but longer than that I'm not so sure.

With so much info coming in in the past few days, I have no doubt that M-DCT will be in the US sooner rather than later. I'd be willing to bet that it will be available here starting Week 10 like everyone is saying!
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      01-15-2008, 05:58 PM   #36
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      01-15-2008, 05:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I'd be willing to bet that it will be available here starting Week 10 like everyone is saying!
I'm inclined to agree. Once the car is officially sold in the US and is rolling out the production line, it would be kind of strange to say you guys in the US can't have DCT, but can have 6MT if DCT is an option elsewhere. However, supply might not be as high as 6MT initially.
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      01-15-2008, 06:01 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Since the 6MT car is already likely highly traction limited in 1st they do achieve a higher top speed in 1st gear 44 vs. 42 and perhaps let the DCT clutching manage the traction more efficiently.
The traction explanation makes sense to me.
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      01-15-2008, 06:45 PM   #39
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Hey South, looks pretty cool. Like the press release, it makes me think...
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      01-15-2008, 06:58 PM   #40
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Hey South, looks pretty cool. Like the press release, it makes me think...
I'm hoping, from a selfish point of view, that the US availability is way out so I'm not tempted to wait, or go ahead with my order and have to say "aw sh*t, I missed it by 2 weeks!"
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      01-15-2008, 07:02 PM   #41
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One possible US delay for the M-DCT is the crash testing and all the hoops that need to be jumped associated with it. Since the powertrain is part of the crash structure and plays a huge part on how a car deforms during a crash, does anyone think that BMW must first donate a fleet of M-DCT equipped US-spec M3's for crash testing?

That's what I fear might happen. But then hopefully I'm wrong and it's a simple matter of the current crash testing being satisfactory for the cars despite the slightly different transmission and increased curb weight, and thus no delays.
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      01-15-2008, 07:15 PM   #42
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M-DCT has been development for some time. I don't see why they couldn't have crash tested it together with the US spec 6MT.
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      01-15-2008, 07:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
Thanks to Just_me by the way.

It's amazing how efficient this forum is in publishing key news!
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      01-15-2008, 07:27 PM   #44
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Who cares...my 335 is still faster!!
only if u get extra proceed stickers
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