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      01-13-2008, 06:28 PM   #45
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I agree the exhaust on the IS-F are ugly but in this world of one-upmanship Lexus clearly thought they needed to do something different and they definitely do that.
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      01-13-2008, 07:25 PM   #46
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One word, noob: UGLY. Damn that IS-F exhaust is ugly.
No reason arguing with you and your pointless one word comment.
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      01-13-2008, 07:29 PM   #47
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Nice Try Lexus! Better ruck next time.

BMW just trashed your whole effort with the pricing. Had you come with a car that was better than a fast Camry, you may have a had a shot at this segment.

Can't wait to see the magazine camparison when Lexus IS-F finishes 3rd to the 1st place M3 and second place C63.

** Shouldn't be so cocky next time and hire a "reporter" to do an ISF vs. M3 review
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      01-13-2008, 07:42 PM   #48
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Nice Try Lexus! Better ruck next time.

BMW just trashed your whole effort with the pricing. Had you come with a car that was better than a fast Camry, you may have a had a shot at this segment.

Can't wait to see the magazine camparison when Lexus IS-F finishes 3rd to the 1st place M3 and second place C63.

** Shouldn't be so cocky next time and hire a "reporter" to do an ISF vs. M3 review
Wow, i did'nt see this coming. What reporter did they hire, if it was that promotional video that you are talking about, that was'nt really a comparison test. It was more like a commercial or like i said a promotional video. Nobody won in that video. Now in terms of the pricing, granted the base price of the e90 is cheaper, but if you look at the option pricing, then it becomes apparent that they are both very close and almost equal. With leather, the e90 price is $56,025 and the IS-F is $56,000.

M3 e90 and e92:


IS-F:
* Base Price: $56,000
* Voice-activated DVD Navigation System: $2,550
* DVD Navigation System/Mark Levinson® Premium Audio System Package: $3,990
* Pre-Collision System (PCS) and Dynamic Radar Cruise Control: $2,850
* Intuitive Parking Assist: $500
* Headlamp washers: $100
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      01-13-2008, 08:14 PM   #49
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[quote=gbb357;1958708]Wow, i did'nt see this coming. What reporter did they hire, if it was that promotional video that you are talking about, that was'nt really a comparison test. It was more like a commercial or like i said a promotional video. Nobody won in that video. Now in terms of the pricing, granted the base price of the e90 is cheaper, but if you look at the option pricing, then it becomes apparent that they are both very close and almost equal. With leather, the e90 price is $56,025 and the IS-F is $56,000.
[quote]

Here is the link for the video

http://www.autospies.com/video/Can-A...M3-or-RS4-334/

No longer up probably from the shameful fake review perception.


It will be tough for Lexus to crack this segment with a car and engine from the spare parts bin. And now with the pricing..... back to the drawing board for Lexus.

Hey let's go attack Ferrari next with the LF-A!!
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      01-13-2008, 08:37 PM   #50
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[quote=T Bone;1958878][quote=gbb357;1958708]Wow, i did'nt see this coming. What reporter did they hire, if it was that promotional video that you are talking about, that was'nt really a comparison test. It was more like a commercial or like i said a promotional video. Nobody won in that video. Now in terms of the pricing, granted the base price of the e90 is cheaper, but if you look at the option pricing, then it becomes apparent that they are both very close and almost equal. With leather, the e90 price is $56,025 and the IS-F is $56,000.
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Here is the link for the video

http://www.autospies.com/video/Can-A...M3-or-RS4-334/

No longer up probably from the shameful fake review perception.


It will be tough for Lexus to crack this segment with a car and engine from the spare parts bin. And now with the pricing..... back to the drawing board for Lexus.

Hey let's go attack Ferrari next with the LF-A!!

Highly doubt that. The LF-A is probably going to be priced around $100k, so the obvious target would be the SL, R8, AMV8, and maybe 997TT. I'm not sure what do you mean by spare parts bin, most manufacturers do the same thing. But i do understand what you are trying to do, nice effort.
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      01-13-2008, 08:42 PM   #51
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I'm not sure what do you mean by spare parts bin, most manufacturers do the same thing. But i do understand what you are trying to do, nice effort.
You mean call out the IS-F for what it really is? A lego toy from the Toyota parts bin trying to tap into a heritage of performance / racing that BMW built over the years?

Psst....what engine did Lexus use for the IS-F?
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      01-13-2008, 09:02 PM   #52
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You mean call out the IS-F for what it really is? A lego toy from the Toyota parts bin trying to tap into a heritage of performance / racing that BMW built over the years?

Psst....what engine did Lexus use for the IS-F?
It's not from any Toyota car engine if that's what you mean, it's another version from the LS V8. And is'nt the V8 from the M3 derived from the V10 used in the M5 and M6?
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      01-13-2008, 09:09 PM   #53
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It's not from any Toyota car engine if that's what you mean, it's another version from the LS V8. And is'nt the V8 from the M3 derived from the V10 used in the M5 and M6?
Is the from the LS460 or some other boat.


The S65 is derived from the S85 V10 but a completely new casting / engine.

Still the S65 is derived from a good true M motor in the V10. The IS-F engine is derived from a luxo-barge.

If Lexus didn't bother developing a sporty motor, what other compromises did they make?
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      01-13-2008, 09:36 PM   #54
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Is the from the LS460 or some other boat.


The S65 is derived from the S85 V10 but a completely new casting / engine.

Still the S65 is derived from a good true M motor in the V10. The IS-F engine is derived from a luxo-barge.

If Lexus didn't bother developing a sporty motor, what other compromises did they make?

A motor with 420hp, 350lbs of torque and 0-60 in 4.2 secs is not sporty for you. This is what i mean when i said i know what you are trying to do. I get it and it's cool.
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      01-13-2008, 09:57 PM   #55
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If Lexus didn't bother developing a sporty motor, what other compromises did they make?
It's actually tuned by yamaha, and the motor is lifted from LS600hl.
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      01-13-2008, 09:59 PM   #56
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You mean call out the IS-F for what it really is? A lego toy from the Toyota parts bin trying to tap into a heritage of performance / racing that BMW built over the years?

Psst....what engine did Lexus use for the IS-F?
So basically what you're saying is no car company should try to compete or start building a high performance line of cars unless they have a heritage of performance racing. So how would all of the M's ever exist? You don't really think that BMW have always made high performance cars from the begining did you. And for your information, if it comes to racing heritage, Toyota has plenty of that also. In terms of high performance cars, the Supra has been around as well. Before you start trolling, try to get some info and knowledge first, even just a little bit.
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      01-13-2008, 10:17 PM   #57
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So basically what you're saying is no car company should try to compete or start building a high performance line of cars unless they have a heritage of performance racing. So how would all of the M's ever exist? You don't really think that BMW have always made high performance cars from the begining did you. And for your information, if it comes to racing heritage, Toyota has plenty of that also. In terms of high performance cars, the Supra has been around as well. Before you start trolling, try to get some info and knowledge first, even just a little bit.

PLease tell me the number of F1 wins Toyota has had since they started. OK how about podium finishes? I am not saying Toyota shouldn't try....just come with better weapons next time. Can't wait to see the 2 heads up on a road course.


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A motor with 420hp, 350lbs of torque and 0-60 in 4.2 secs is not sporty for you. This is what i mean when i said i know what you are trying to do. I get it and it's cool.
A 5.0 liter engine? See what BMW or Porsche can do with that..... The engine is heavy and slow to rev.
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      01-13-2008, 10:58 PM   #58
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I love the M3 but I can admit that Lexus came up with a pretty good car. The pricing might hurt the Lexis though.
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      01-13-2008, 11:19 PM   #59
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So now you're saying that a car company has to win a F1 before they can compete or start making high performance cars. Please tell me you're kidding right?

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PLease tell me the number of F1 wins Toyota has had since they started. OK how about podium finishes? I am not saying Toyota shouldn't try....just come with better weapons next time. Can't wait to see the 2 heads up on a road course.



A 5.0 liter engine? See what BMW or Porsche can do with that..... The engine is heavy and slow to rev.
So this means that the 5.7 from the Vette with 400hp or 430hp now is also mediocre in comparison. And that also applies to the 6.3 liter from the C63 that only makes 450hp. That's like saying the 3.0 from the 335i is a lesser engine because it took 2 turbos to make as much as the IS350 with a NA 3.5 V6. Let me give you a hint, almost any major car manufacturer can make any type of engine that they want with whatever hp they want as well. And another thing, the 4.8 from the BMW 650 only makes 360hp because they designed it that way. Just like Lexus chose the 5.0 with lots of torque instead of a high revving smaller engine because they wanted to go that route instead and they can. For another example, the 93' Supra Turbo with 3.0 liter L6 was making 320hp, that was 15yrs ago, way before the M3 broke the 300hp mark in Europe. The 6.5 V12 with 640hp from the Murcielago is not a lesser engine compare to the ZR1's 6.2 V8 with 620hp. I can go on and on with this, my point is your logic is really flawed and weak.

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      01-13-2008, 11:59 PM   #60
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So now you're saying that a car company has to win a F1 before they can compete or start making high performance cars. Please tell me you're kidding right?



So this means that the 5.7 from the Vette with 400hp or 430hp now is also mediocre in comparison. And that also applies to the 6.3 liter from the C63 that only makes 450hp. That's like saying the 3.0 from the 335i is a lesser engine because it took 2 turbos to make as much as the IS350 with a NA 3.5 V6. Let me give you a hint, almost any major car manufacturer can make any type of engine that they want with whatever hp they want as well. And another thing, the 4.8 from the BMW 650 only makes 360hp because they designed it that way. Just like Lexus chose the 5.0 with lots of torque instead of a high revving smaller engine because they wanted to go that route instead and they can. For another example, the 93' Supra Turbo with 3.0 liter L6 was making 320hp, that was 15yrs ago, way before the M3 broke the 300hp mark in Europe. The 6.5 V12 with 640hp from the Murcielago is not a lesser engine compare to the ZR1's 6.2 V8 with 620hp. I can go on and on with this, my point is your logic is really flawed and weak.
What is weak is the IS-F engine. They had a chance to blow away the M3 with a 5 liter engine instead they built a fast Camry.

Hey you want to compare technology right? BMW went all out and built a car worthy of the badge.

The S65 is a Worldwide engine. The Vette and ISF will get penalized / taxed for such a big displacement by tax, this would make the price / performance a lot worse for the ISF outside of North America.

The ISF engine is a massaged LS600 engine (thanks for the correction DC52E55). You would think if Lexus were serious about taking on BMW, they would go a clean sheet design.....to be completely overt, the S65 is a way superior engine to the ISF V8. Light, fast to rev, breathes great from 2500 rpm to redline.

And to put the icing on the cake, with the new pricing of the M3, the ISF is irrelevant.

There is always the next cycle Lexus.....
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      01-14-2008, 12:12 AM   #61
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So again i ask you, how is 420hp with 350lbs-ft of torque and is able to propel a 3800lbs car to 60 in 4.2 and 1/4 mile in 12.7 to be considered weak? In comparison, the M3 at 3600lbs has done 4.1 to 60 and 12.5 in the 1/4 mile. So is the C63 with only 450hp from a 6.3 liter is also weak? Do you even know what you're talking about, or are you just trolling for the sake of trolling. You can say the same thing for the M3 buy not making more than 420hp to compete with the next RS4, since the RS4 has set the standard 3yrs ago.
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      01-14-2008, 12:19 AM   #62
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So again i ask you, how is 420hp with 350lbs-ft of torque and is able to propel a 3800lbs car to 60 in 4.2 and 1/4 mile in 12.7 to be considered weak? In comparison, the M3 at 3600lbs has done 4.1 to 60 and 12.5 in the 1/4 mile. So is the C63 with only 450hp from a 6.3 liter is also weak? Do you even know what you're talking about, or are you just trolling for the sake of trolling. You can say the same thing for the M3 buy not making more than 420hp to compete with next RS4, since the RS4 has set the standard 3yrs ago.

An ISF with 500 hp would have been a M3 killer. Now with the M3 pricing, the ISF is relegated instantly to an also ran.

Aside from the straight-line performance, what is the ISF really offering? It doesn't even have a proper manual transmission! (in the form of a true manual or SMG type).

Stick these cars on a track, I know which car I would take.....

Mr. Lexus what are the selling points for the ISF? What? Faster? Better engineering? More nimble? Brand Premium?

Ah...no...
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      01-14-2008, 12:27 AM   #63
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An ISF with 500 hp would have been a M3 killer. Now with the M3 pricing, the ISF is relegated instantly to an also ran.

Aside from the straight-line performance, what is the ISF really offering? It doesn't even have a proper manual transmission! (in the form of a true manual or SMG type).

Stick these cars on a track, I know which car I would take.....

Mr. Lexus what are the selling points for the ISF? What? Faster? Better engineering? More nimble? Brand Premium?

Ah...no...
Are you serious, 500hp for the IS-F does'nt make any sense, i'm sure they can but why. The LF-A is only going to make 550hp. How do you know how it's going to do in the track. The current 8 speed tranny is one of the quickest on the market right now in terms of manual shifting and If it works for Mercedes and other high perfomance supercars why not Lexus. Can you at least try to answer my question, how is 420hp with 350lbs-ft of torque and is able to propel a 3800lbs car to 60 in 4.2 and 1/4 mile in 12.7 to be considered weak? BTW, a 500hp ISF will not make an M3 killer, not even the 550hp CTS-V. That's how good the M3 and BMW is, they are way ahead of the game but the competition is growing and learning.
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      01-14-2008, 12:34 AM   #64
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Are you serious, 500hp for the IS-F does'nt make any sense, i'm sure they can but why. The LF-A is only going to make 550hp. How do you know how it's going to do in the track. The current 8 speed tranny is one of the quickest on the market right now in terms of manual shifting and If it works for Mercedes and other high perfomance supercars why not Lexus. Can you at least try to answer my question, how is 420hp with 350lbs-ft of torque and is able to propel a 3800lbs car to 60 in 4.2 and 1/4 mile in 12.7 to be considered weak?

It is weak because there is nothing stellar about it in its class. This is not a comparison of 1/4 drag strips. All the cars in the class offer similar performance....M3, IS-F, C63 and even the RS4...

Beyond straightline performance, the M3 is miles ahead of its competitors in its class in handling and dynamics.

So again, why would ANY CAR Enthusiast buy an IS-F over an M3?
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      01-14-2008, 12:46 AM   #65
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It is weak because there is nothing stellar about it in its class. This is not a comparison of 1/4 drag strips. All the cars in the class offer similar performance....M3, IS-F, C63 and even the RS4...

Beyond straightline performance, the M3 is miles ahead of its competitors in its class in handling and dynamics.

So again, why would ANY CAR Enthusiast buy an IS-F over an M3?

With that logic, that means the rest of the competitions engine is weak as well since they have all similar performance. Handling and dynamics is another story, has nothing to do with the engine, but hands down the M3 is superior in this category. Why would any car enthusiast buy any car, for the looks, performance and brand name. If we're going to compare apples to apples, between the ISF, C63, and e90 M3, all 4 doors, it's going to come down to asthetics. And why would'nt you buy an ISF over the M3? It's all a matter of opinion, some might consider the looks of the ISF over the e90 M3.
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      01-14-2008, 05:38 AM   #66
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T-Bone is correct in saying that all of the competition have very similar performance with the exception being the C63 which is a little ahead of the chasing pack. And he is 100% correct in saying that the M3 is the class act when it come to finesse and dynamics, we do know that neither the RS4 or C63 are as capable on the track but we will have to see if the IS-F can surprise us all though based on early previews it doesn't look like it will bother the M3 is this department.

So on this glowing report of the M3 it would bag the question why is there a need for the rest of them but like gbb357 has already stated some people dislike the BMW brand, while other may not like the current styling and because of this there will always be a market for the rest of them.

And in any case each of the others aren't bad things to drive and each offer something different to the BMW, Mercedes has more performance and the image, Audi has all weather performance and the Lexus has reliability and value for money.

At this price bracket there isn't really any bum buys.
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