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      01-07-2008, 03:38 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Some good points there (amputated foot and shoe thing for example...).
I am not sure what the best option would be but I see huge issues with today's system. Why is the price of my daughter's asthma inhaler medicine over $150 ($50 after insurance) here and the same thing we got in Europe in May for $5 (with no insurance). Why is the price of anti-biotic here close to $100 per box and less than $3 for the same thing somewhere else.

Why do you lose your coverage when you need it (when you get sick and cannot work any more for extensive period or indefinitely) even though you poured hundreds of $$ (plus your company did more than that) every month while you were healthy? Pure business, just like a local car dealership, unfortunately we're dealing with our lives here...

IMO the system other countries have (for example France, Canada, Germany, Serbia...of ones I know) give you a peace of mind and more flexibility. Just like your article pointed out -- some are afraid to be self-employed just because of these things in this country. And it would not necessarily damage our health provider profile -- physician quality and equipment quality. You would be still paying for it through taxes or call it something else...just like other countries do. People in this country get "scared" of the "socialized" term without even understanding it. And the media (like in other cases) makes it even more unknown or wrongly understood.

It is a very wrong perception that Canadians for example have less experienced and worse health professionals than we do, worse hospitals and equipment, longer wait lines and so on in general. And someone came up with a stupid line that Canadians now pour into the USA for medical attention.

I believe that balancing Gov't spendings (taxes, Wars, Homeland Security, other programs...) and Healthcare should be prioritioes of whoever takes over next...

I can't believe how much of the price of meds in the US is driven by litigation. A good friend of mine from college oversees prescription drugs for a major drugstore chain, and gripes about the cost of insurance they have to carry. Goes up double digits every year. Too much risk to be self-insured, so they pay up. It's all tied to litigation, or fear of it. All that cost makes it's way into the drugs we buy. The same costs are built into almost every other aspect of the healthcare system. That's why I keep saying fix tort law.

I also don't think our gov't does a very good job negotiating contracts. GSA is a joke. I used to deal with them all the time with my last company. It costs a bloody fortune to implement, the penalties are huge even for an innocent mistake, so we had to jack the prices up to cover our asses. And that was a fortune 100 company that had it's backoffice systems in pretty good shape. Thankfully my new one won't go on the GSA schedule.
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      01-07-2008, 03:48 PM   #68
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      01-07-2008, 03:50 PM   #69
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Completely RIDICULOUS and heartless!
I would completely agree if you said that not everyone should drive the best car ou there, but that you don't believe that everyone should have the access to the best possible medical treatment is a plain nonsence. WHat about pre-existing conditions that were not the outcome of bad food, smoking or lack of exercise? What about the baby born with a defect to parents that work at local grocery stores???

If you think our medical system is better (or more preferrable to you) than Canadian -- please explain -- What happens to your medical coverage IF you get really sick, i.e. cannot work any more? Or if you get laid off??? What happens to your wife, to "your" new born baby?
Also, if you do not get med coverage through employment, but apply by yourself -- what happens if you have a pre-existing condition? Will you get the coverage? Will you be able to afford the coverage?

Will your insurance cover for you if you wish to go to France for the procedure instead in the USA (within the network)? Canadian will!

ANd that all is PPO stuff. What if you have an HMO? Will you get pre-approved for the procedure as preventive care? Most likely not! I had an HMO a few years back and went to nutricionist to consult with them because I have diabetes and HBP running in my family. My numbers are great, but I am at risk of genetically developing both. The insurance did not want to pay for the preventive care. It was cheap, so OK, I cannot even imagine more complex things...

Yep, they would rather spend thousands when you develop the desease that was probably preventable, then they would dump you and the end (you have pre-existing condition for the next guy)...

What is so great about our medical system as it is? Sure, we do have great doctors with great equipment and most of the time you can get in within reasonable time (though try to get derm appt in FL -- some areas 8-month wait). But the other countries (Canada, France, Germany, Taiwan, China, Japan, India -- ones that I (or someone close to me) experienced medical treatment with have it too.

I completely agree on a capitalistic approach to businesses, trade, etc...but medical treatment is a complete nonsence. We get equalized to our wallets and receive a type of medicsal attention according to our wealth. That is simply ridiculous in today's world. And our Gov't goes accross the world to "help some other oppressed country" get rid of dictators and make their lives better, but the basic stuff like medical and education are PURE business here instead of necessity. It is a HealthCARE that you get cared about only if you're either NOT sick or wealthy...
two points on which I agree - gaps in coverage must be fixed, and pre-exsiting conditions must be addressed.

I wouldn't mind seeing a gov't backed safety net that anyone w/o employer-backed medical coverage could join, but it would be similar to the coverage you go buy on your own. Group all the people together that go buy coverage on their own, and give them the buying power to lower the premium. It'll still be expensive, but until we address the cost, that won't change under ANY program.

As long as this country continues to support politicians (dem and rep) that support the current status quo on tort law, not much will change in health care costs. If people want to fix the costs, they need to vote for people that will fix tort law first. Yes, bad doctors need to be sued out of practice, but people also need to realize they are human. Mistakes will happen, and a reasonable penalty is acceptable, but the 7 and 8 figure settlements are w/o basis. These plaintiffs were never going to make that much in a lifetime, so why give them that for a jury award? The damn leach attorney takes 1/3 of it anyway! In the states that cap jury awards, malpractice is coming back in line, physicians are returning to practices, and costs are coming down or at least holding flat.


Back to the "safety net" health insurance - I'm not talking about the Cadillac coverage that used to be so widely available. Even my coverage now is nothing compared to what my parents had back in the day, but it's also grown so incredibly in cost, it's out of hand. I work for a company in the Dow30, and we have relatively good health coverage. I work here in part becuase of that.

I don't believe that we as a country can afford the best care we have to offer for everyone. What you omit is that much of that care that is beyond the common person is also rationed in Canada and Europe. Rationing of care happens here too, and that won't change. I also don't think it should. Take that little girl that Edwards likes to tout in his campaign speach against the current system. She had leukemia, and even with the liver transplant had only a 65% chance of living 6 mos. That liver should go to someone with a better prognosis, where it could be of more use. Besides, where the hell were they going to get a liver (when Cigna originally denied the claim) fast enough to help her???? That waiting list is in mos and years, not days and hours.




BTW, to get into that gov't backed safety net for medical coverage, you should have to pass a drug test. I had to pass one to earn my paycheck to pay the taxes that pay for those programs. If you can't pass a basic drug test, you obviously aren't hurting that badly for the money. Also, no full-blown cable package, no cell phone and nix the other ridiculous luxuries that so many "people in need" seem to have when they walk into the ED. It makes me sick. They purchase shit I couldn't even think about, but can't seem to afford even w/ a doctor and engineer income. But then again, the gov't isn't paying my rent and my grocery bill either.
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      01-07-2008, 09:22 PM   #70
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two points on which I agree - gaps in coverage must be fixed, and pre-exsiting conditions must be addressed.

I wouldn't mind seeing a gov't backed safety net that anyone w/o employer-backed medical coverage could join, but it would be similar to the coverage you go buy on your own. Group all the people together that go buy coverage on their own, and give them the buying power to lower the premium. It'll still be expensive, but until we address the cost, that won't change under ANY program.

As long as this country continues to support politicians (dem and rep) that support the current status quo on tort law, not much will change in health care costs. If people want to fix the costs, they need to vote for people that will fix tort law first. Yes, bad doctors need to be sued out of practice, but people also need to realize they are human. Mistakes will happen, and a reasonable penalty is acceptable, but the 7 and 8 figure settlements are w/o basis. These plaintiffs were never going to make that much in a lifetime, so why give them that for a jury award? The damn leach attorney takes 1/3 of it anyway! In the states that cap jury awards, malpractice is coming back in line, physicians are returning to practices, and costs are coming down or at least holding flat.


Back to the "safety net" health insurance - I'm not talking about the Cadillac coverage that used to be so widely available. Even my coverage now is nothing compared to what my parents had back in the day, but it's also grown so incredibly in cost, it's out of hand. I work for a company in the Dow30, and we have relatively good health coverage. I work here in part becuase of that.

I don't believe that we as a country can afford the best care we have to offer for everyone. What you omit is that much of that care that is beyond the common person is also rationed in Canada and Europe. Rationing of care happens here too, and that won't change. I also don't think it should. Take that little girl that Edwards likes to tout in his campaign speach against the current system. She had leukemia, and even with the liver transplant had only a 65% chance of living 6 mos. That liver should go to someone with a better prognosis, where it could be of more use. Besides, where the hell were they going to get a liver (when Cigna originally denied the claim) fast enough to help her???? That waiting list is in mos and years, not days and hours.




BTW, to get into that gov't backed safety net for medical coverage, you should have to pass a drug test. I had to pass one to earn my paycheck to pay the taxes that pay for those programs. If you can't pass a basic drug test, you obviously aren't hurting that badly for the money. Also, no full-blown cable package, no cell phone and nix the other ridiculous luxuries that so many "people in need" seem to have when they walk into the ED. It makes me sick. They purchase shit I couldn't even think about, but can't seem to afford even w/ a doctor and engineer income. But then again, the gov't isn't paying my rent and my grocery bill either.

Are you a jet pilot Mr. turbo?
What equipment are you on bro?
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      01-07-2008, 09:23 PM   #71
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I do "know my stuff". There's a reason for that.
You must not have caught the sarcasm.

I believe, as do most of my fellow countrymen, that basic healthcare is a human right, just as food and shelter are as well.
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      01-07-2008, 10:14 PM   #72
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You must not have caught the sarcasm.

I believe, as do most of my fellow countrymen, that basic healthcare is a human right, just as food and shelter are as well.
It's a human need, not a right. We nearly treat it as a right. In emergencies, we effectively treat healthcare as a right (this is good). Food and shelter are a need. Not a right. We have made it into an entitlement. It still is not a right. It's similar to the pursuit of happiness. You don't have a right to happiness. Rather you have a right to the pursuit of happiness.
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      01-07-2008, 10:38 PM   #73
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It's a human need, not a right. We nearly treat it as a right. In emergencies, we effectively treat healthcare as a right (this is good). Food and shelter are a need. Not a right. We have made it into an entitlement. It still is not a right. It's similar to the pursuit of happiness. You don't have a right to happiness. Rather you have a right to the pursuit of happiness.
In civilized countries it's a right, in 3rd world its a need. Who would JC heal???
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      01-07-2008, 10:43 PM   #74
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In civilized countries it's a right, in 3rd world its a need. Who would JC heal???
Jesus acted on people's needs, not their rights. The government acts on their citizen's rights. Usually the government takes the position of limiting rights rather than expanding them.
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      01-07-2008, 11:26 PM   #75
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Are you a jet pilot Mr. turbo?
What equipment are you on bro?


Sadly, no. As the recruiter said to me...."Son,.....you just ain't gonna fit!"

I think you're the first person to catch the other meaning of my screen name.
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      01-07-2008, 11:28 PM   #76
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Sadly, no. As the recruiter said to me...."Son,.....you just ain't gonna fit!"

I think you're the first person to catch the other meaning of my screen name.
Recruiter???
I went to Flight academy to become a pilot. No recruiter ever talked to me...
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      01-07-2008, 11:29 PM   #77
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Sadly, no. As the recruiter said to me...."Son,.....you just ain't gonna fit!"

I think you're the first person to catch the other meaning of my screen name.
BTW, I liked your posts above...much more agreeable...
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      01-07-2008, 11:31 PM   #78
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uh oh, I must be losing it....
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      01-07-2008, 11:34 PM   #79
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Recruiter???
I went to Flight academy to become a pilot. No recruiter ever talked to me...
I was looking at the Air Force Academy or Anapolis with the goal of flying fighter aircraft. I was talking to a couple different people in both branches, and both said no way I'd make it into flight school at my size. I came to find out later (uncle, an F-4 pilot during his AF career) it was likely a bunch of BS, but too late.
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      01-07-2008, 11:57 PM   #80
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I was looking at the Air Force Academy or Anapolis with the goal of flying fighter aircraft. I was talking to a couple different people in both branches, and both said no way I'd make it into flight school at my size. I came to find out later (uncle, an F-4 pilot during his AF career) it was likely a bunch of BS, but too late.
I flew @ Mach .8.... it's awesome, but requires some decision making based on physical evidence. Nowdays, I teach it ...it's decision making based on physical evidence and experience ...and you got to think fast....and be correct...
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      01-08-2008, 12:02 AM   #81
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I flew @ Mach .8.... it's awesome, but requires some decision making based on physical evidence. Nowdays, I teach it ...it's decision making based on physical evidence...and you got to think FAST....and be correct...
Very nice. I spent a great deal of time on AFB's, and would sit for hours and watch F-16's do touch and go's. I still love flying, and would like to work on my license at some point.

My major was in mech engineering, and spent a great deal of time studying various types of jet propulsion and aeronautics. Even thought about going OCS after college to try and fly, but it wasn't too likely I'd a passed the vision test.
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      01-08-2008, 09:59 PM   #82
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Very nice. I spent a great deal of time on AFB's, and would sit for hours and watch F-16's do touch and go's. I still love flying, and would like to work on my license at some point.

My major was in mech engineering, and spent a great deal of time studying various types of jet propulsion and aeronautics. Even thought about going OCS after college to try and fly, but it wasn't too likely I'd a passed the vision test.
I still got my CFI, I can teach you how to fly...just say a word...
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      01-08-2008, 10:04 PM   #83
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I still got my CFI, I can teach you how to fly...just say a word...
Is that available through on-line learning?

I appreciate that. Some day....*sigh*
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      01-09-2008, 07:59 PM   #84
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2) THe propaganda of O'Riley has brainwashed you all the way... Then explain me and others you mentioned above why did the oil companies have RECORD profits on order of $10B/quarter -- more than any other US corporation EVER... How is that justified that they are just doing honest business, but their profits are the size never seen before. Yep, they do care about us. How about the quarterly profit of $5B/qt and price of gas <$2/gal.
How does the price of gas compare to historical number (adjusted for inflation). Here is a report on oil prices.

The $100 Barrel
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      01-09-2008, 09:14 PM   #85
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How does the price of gas compare to historical number (adjusted for inflation). Here is a report on oil prices.

]
Where's the gas price?
I don't give a shit about oil price. I put gas in my car, not crude oil.
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      01-09-2008, 10:05 PM   #86
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Where's the gas price?
I don't give a shit about oil price. I put gas in my car, not crude oil.
Here is some sample information here:

California Gasoline Prices Adjusted for Inflation
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      01-11-2008, 07:54 PM   #87
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Jesus acted on people's needs, not their rights. The government acts on their citizen's rights. Usually the government takes the position of limiting rights rather than expanding them.
J.C. freak, sell that bimmer and help sick homeless kids...
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      01-17-2008, 03:49 PM   #88
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