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      01-06-2008, 01:47 PM   #1
SS32
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M3 faster than a C6?

Stock v. stock, what would the outcome be?
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      01-06-2008, 02:12 PM   #2
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M3 wins by 90 car lengths.
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      01-06-2008, 02:30 PM   #3
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Judging by Sportauto numbers the M3 is a half second faster on Hockenheimring aswell as 10 seconds faster on Nürburgring.


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      01-06-2008, 02:40 PM   #4
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Road and Track also has better numbers for the M3 vs. the C6.

0-60 4.1 vs. 4.3
0-100 9.4 vs.9.5
1/4 mi. 12.5 114.8 mph vs. 12.6@115.7 mph

That's pretty impressive considering the weight disparity and the similar hp.
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      01-06-2008, 05:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
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Road and Track also has better numbers for the M3 vs. the C6.
To be clear shouldn't that be "C6 vs M3"?
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      01-06-2008, 08:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
To be clear shouldn't that be "C6 vs M3"?
M3 data is on the left and C6 to the right. Is that what you mean?
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      01-06-2008, 10:42 PM   #7
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Which c6 are we talking about? The LS2 or LS3???
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      01-07-2008, 01:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
M3 data is on the left and C6 to the right. Is that what you mean?
Yes, thanks I had it backwards as I just saw the new R&T 0-60 of 4.1.
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      01-07-2008, 04:31 AM   #9
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lol 4,1 my ass
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      01-07-2008, 06:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
Which c6 are we talking about? The LS2 or LS3???
436hp LS3.
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      01-07-2008, 11:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowmoo32 View Post
Stock v. stock, what would the outcome be?
The current C6 would prevail, pretty much ten times out of ten, in whatever kind of race - but the margin is very, very small.

The wonder is how fast the new M3 actually is when you consider its excess poundage. Furthermore, factoring in the new automatic gearbox when that becomes available, I'm betting it'll be pretty close to a tossup.

Don't get too fixated on the numbers you've just read, however. The figures generated by Road & Track in the current issue are just too quick to be true. I'm not doubting R & T, but since they don't factor weather into their results (and the weather conditions at the time looked to be very good), that's part of the issue. It's not enough to actually explain the results, however. When I run the quarter mile numbers, I can't match the R & T results without at least 440 HP, and that's only by stacking the traction and weather conditions way far in the M3's favor. In fact, if Swamp didn't dissolve into a mass of adoring protoplasm every time he even thought about the new M3, he'd have already written a new string entitled "New M3 Massively under-rated" or somesuch - but he'd leave out the commentary that it was nothing special given its componentry.

I personally believe that the new car really is something special given its componentry. That 8:05 at the 'Ring is a terrific time, even assuming very sticky optional rubber available in Europe and don't-even-try-to-stop-when-they're-cold brake pads.

It doesn't match the 7:59 generated by Dave Hill in a stock Z51 coupe, however, and with a nine percent power gain, I assume that Swamp and lucid would agree that the '08 Vette will be several seconds faster than that. The 8:15 generated by "I'm not fast, but I have a steady job" Horst? Dunno. I can only assume that he ran a car without the Z51 ("sport") package, and even though the Z51 has moderately crappy runflat sneakers, they're far better than the runflats in the standard car - as are the brakes, suspension, etc.

Be content that although the M3 isn't as quick as a Vette in whatever venue, it's already something of an over achiever, and with the optional gearbox, it'll be closer together than half past six.

Bruce

Edit: PS - The numbers so far generated by publications other than R & T seem to support the notion that although the M3 is an over achiever, it's probably rated correctly in terms of power.
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      01-07-2008, 12:07 PM   #12
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Bruce,

How are R&T getting the figures they are getting without telling wee white lies. I love the idea that my next car is able to get to 60 and 100 in 4.1s and 9.2s respectively but I personally have far more faith in AUTOCAR's figures of 4.5s and 10.2s.
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      01-07-2008, 02:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
Don't get too fixated on the numbers you've just read, however. The figures generated by Road & Track in the current issue are just too quick to be true. I'm not doubting R & T, but since they don't factor weather into their results (and the weather conditions at the time looked to be very good), that's part of the issue. It's not enough to actually explain the results, however. When I run the quarter mile numbers, I can't match the R & T results without at least 440 HP, and that's only by stacking the traction and weather conditions way far in the M3's favor. In fact, if Swamp didn't dissolve into a mass of adoring protoplasm every time he even thought about the new M3, he'd have already written a new string entitled "New M3 Massively under-rated" or somesuch - but he'd leave out the commentary that it was nothing special given its componentry
That could explain the 385hp dyno results the e92 M3 got in one of the threads, which gives it about 12% powertrain loss. That's still very good.
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      01-07-2008, 02:41 PM   #14
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My analyses as well indicate that the 4.1/9.4 (footie: they got 9.4 to 100 not 9.2) times are outliers and are not consistent with the quoted specifications of the car. However, most other reported numbers and their averages are consistent with specifications. As Bruce stated (or hinted at) weather alone can not explain the amount that this is an outlier. My simulations with the exact temp and humidity of the R&T test showed a .1s gain to 60 and .2s gain to 100 comapred to standard temp and humidty. Since simulation only works with a reasonable accuracy for flat out straight line accelerations the Ring time sanity checks should be made based on: power to weight, driver, tires, similar vehicles and presense of automated manual. Lastly the 8:05 Ring time is EXACTLY as predicted by lucid's regression analysis. Given that many cars in that regression were not run with Cup/Cup+ quality of tires (as the M3 was) that may mean the car is a slight underperformer on the Ring relative to others.

Last but not least, even though these numbers are not so meaningful. If M-DCT launch control works well, I think we will be seeing a sub 4 second 0-60 run in that car.

P.S. Bruce: if you read a bit more of my posts you would find my praise of the M3 is nicely balanced by my criticisms of both BMW (M and NA) and the car itself. Try as you might, you can not pigeon hole me as a fan boy. Nice try though.
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      01-07-2008, 03:14 PM   #15
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Which one would get 3 bitches and a keg of beer to the beach the fastest?


P.S. This includes both bikini's and keg accessories!
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      01-07-2008, 10:25 PM   #16
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check out http://corvetteforum.com/

and you'll find some good data on 1/4 mile times
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      01-08-2008, 11:18 AM   #17
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So it's all number racing still. I wasn't sure if anyone who already has one has raced a C6. I don't normally care about stuff like this, but the C6 is going to be my biggest competitor on the streets around here.
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      01-08-2008, 11:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowmoo32 View Post
So it's all number racing still. I wasn't sure if anyone who already has one has raced a C6. I don't normally care about stuff like this, but the C6 is going to be my biggest competitor on the streets around here.
Same here. I'm in a racing club in the suburbs of Chicago, it's rather small, about 12 members but there are currently 8 Corvettes in the club, I just hope I can hang with the most of them. Most of them are running in the 11s already, but some of them are still close enough to stock where I think I can hang with them on the highway. Corvette = best performance for the money. You can get a brand new 08 Corvette for around 43-44k, that is ridiculous.
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      01-08-2008, 03:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
Same here. I'm in a racing club in the suburbs of Chicago, it's rather small, about 12 members but there are currently 8 Corvettes in the club, I just hope I can hang with the most of them. Most of them are running in the 11s already, but some of them are still close enough to stock where I think I can hang with them on the highway. Corvette = best performance for the money. You can get a brand new 08 Corvette for around 43-44k, that is ridiculous.
My friend's SS Camaro ran high 11's with stock tires. Other than custom exhaust and headers, i'm not sure what other mods he has done. I'm almost sure he has no SC's or turbos.

Last edited by gbb357; 01-08-2008 at 03:55 PM.
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      01-08-2008, 04:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
My friend's SS Camaro ran high 11's with stock tires. Other than custom exhaust and headers, i'm not sure what other mods he has done. I'm almost sure he has no SC's or turbos.

Had to have had quite a bit to run 11s with stock tires. at least 400rwhp.
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      01-08-2008, 04:17 PM   #21
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Maybe no FI, but what about a little ?250? shot N2O?

I bet if we put one of them fogger things on a 335 we could outrun an M3 for much, much cheaper than the unknown cost of the M?
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      01-08-2008, 04:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Bruce,

How are R&T getting the figures they are getting without telling wee white lies. I love the idea that my next car is able to get to 60 and 100 in 4.1s and 9.2s respectively but I personally have far more faith in AUTOCAR's figures of 4.5s and 10.2s.
I have no idea how those numbers came about, but unless the new car is a bunch lighter than early indications suggest (in which case I may lose $100 to another noter), they don't add up.

Bruce
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