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      01-02-2008, 11:10 AM   #111
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I think this is what I meant about people not agreeing on what "proof" is. I used the Bible itself to show that we cannot trust it to be the word of God and there is so much confusion within the text itself. I guess it's up to you to decide whether what I showed you was "proof" or not.

Regarding interpreting scripture, I have actually studied it quite deeply, that's why I made my case to you and other Christian brothers.
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      01-02-2008, 11:42 AM   #112
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been there. done that. hks and i have gone through long discussions about the the accuracy of the bible and who jesus is and we weren't able to come to any sort of understanding.

maybe scottwww will make the attempt..

i'll just say that what he thinks is CLEAR and LOGICAL is only his opinion. interpreting scripture is not quite that easy, especially for someone that has only read bits and pieces of it and never the whole thing.
At this point, and in this thread, I don't intend to try to convince a Muslim that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Dealing with atheists is so much simpler because they are simple people. Their type of thinking is quite easy to understand and I have been there myself. I can't make either of those statements about Muslims.

To make a case in my argument for Muslims, I would have to learn a lot of Islam's teachings. I don't have the time or desire to do that now.
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      01-02-2008, 11:53 AM   #113
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      01-02-2008, 12:15 PM   #114
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      01-02-2008, 01:07 PM   #115
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Don't the atheists think that everything has to have a proof?
Not necessarily. Typically it is a matter of the lack of empirical evidence to suggest that a god exists (regardless of who's). It's just as foreign a concept as believing in the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The De Facto atheist as described by Richard Dawkins operates under the following guise. "I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

Personally, I fall in this category but it's somewhat of a default because I don't naturally believe in the existence of a god. Ultimately though I'm completely indifferent to the existence of any god. Simply put, I just don't care one way or the other as it plays absolutely no part in my personal life. If others feel happy and whole believing in a god then I'm happy for them. I'm quite happy and whole without a god so I don't feel the need add one when I'm not spiritually compelled to do so.

I do have friends that argue that one day I'll see the light and believe (though I find that statement offensive). I merely reply that in 30 years of life I haven't had the need so the probability of that changing is considerably low.



Keep in mind though that all religious groups have their dissidents that perpetuate the stereotype. Atheists are no exception. However you and I both know that they don't accurately represent their associative populace, they're just tend to be the most outspoken.
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      01-02-2008, 02:50 PM   #116
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Not necessarily. Typically it is a matter of the lack of empirical evidence to suggest that a god exists (regardless of who's). It's just as foreign a concept as believing in the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The De Facto atheist as described by Richard Dawkins operates under the following guise. "I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

Personally, I fall in this category but it's somewhat of a default because I don't naturally believe in the existence of a god. Ultimately though I'm completely indifferent to the existence of any god. Simply put, I just don't care one way or the other as it plays absolutely no part in my personal life. If others feel happy and whole believing in a god then I'm happy for them. I'm quite happy and whole without a god so I don't feel the need add one when I'm not spiritually compelled to do so.

I do have friends that argue that one day I'll see the light and believe (though I find that statement offensive). I merely reply that in 30 years of life I haven't had the need so the probability of that changing is considerably low.



Keep in mind though that all religious groups have their dissidents that perpetuate the stereotype. Atheists are no exception. However you and I both know that they don't accurately represent their associative populace, they're just tend to be the most outspoken.
Aren't you concerned that intelligent design is finding it's way into science classes? How about when religious vote against abortion, stem cell research and the faith based initiative?

If we, non-believers, don't speak up, we might wake up one day and have church run the Government.

I had the same outlook as you until I realized that my kids might have to pray in school.
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      01-02-2008, 03:03 PM   #117
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Aren't you concerned that intelligent design is finding it's way into science classes? How about when religious vote against abortion, stem cell research and the faith based initiative?

If we, non-believers, don't speak up, we might wake up one day and have church run the Government.

I had the same outlook as you until I realized that my kids might have to pray in school.
I am not an advocate of intelligent design theory. Actually I have never looked at it. What measures have religious voters had opportunity to vote on about abortion? I haven't heard of any Christians or religious people vote against stem cell research. I don't know what is the faith based initiative.

What church do you fear might get the chance to run the government?
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      01-02-2008, 04:34 PM   #118
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Aren't you concerned that intelligent design is finding it's way into science classes? How about when religious vote against abortion, stem cell research and the faith based initiative?

If we, non-believers, don't speak up, we might wake up one day and have church run the Government.

I had the same outlook as you until I realized that my kids might have to pray in school.
In science class? Yes. It's not based on science. That's where I take issue with it. Philosophically I'm not opposed to it.

As for abortion, I know both religious and no who are anti. Your question is a bit loaded. What I do find ironic is individuals whose actions are antithetical to their claimed belief systems.

I grew up in an area where I was somewhat outcast for not being religious, so I'm well aware of the consequences. My lack of belief wasn't considered acceptable by the faithful and I wasn't treated well for it. Even though my belief and practice is Constitutionally protected it didn't matter. As I stated earlier, their beliefs are not what I take issue with. It is the imposition of their beliefs and will and subsequent actions thereof. Henceforth, it isn't what they say but what they do that I find morally repugnant. This practice however isn't exclusive to the religious. The non-religious of the world are certainly prey to the same behavior.

I don't necessarily classify myself as a 'non-believer' so much as a 'don't-give-a-sh1t'er'. However in a classical sense, I'm associated with the former.

The biggest detriment I find in individuals (religious or not) is their inability to see beyond themselves despite their claims to the contrary. It is part of man's nature to see what he wants instead of what is. We inherently imbue our own bias in everything whether or not we intend to. So far, the scientific method is the best formula we've devised to remove ourselves from objective reality, which is why I for one hold it so dearly.

Here's an interesting thought. From the perspective of Quantum Law, "God" (or any other omnipotent deity(s)) both exists and doesn't exist. He is Schrodinger's cat. Of course this only works from a philosophical standpoint since no empirical evidence can be provided, but the concept is interesting nonetheless.
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Last edited by unionjack; 01-02-2008 at 04:34 PM. Reason: grammatical
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      01-02-2008, 05:07 PM   #119
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Had to tack this on too.

"God" is also susceptible to the wave-particle duality. You can only close the function through observation of a single state which must be predetermined (in this case existence or non). You cannot observe both simultaneously. Again this only works from a philosophical standpoint since no empirical evidence can be provided
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      01-02-2008, 05:08 PM   #120
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"God, I hate cats"
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      01-02-2008, 07:08 PM   #121
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"God, I hate cats"
me too
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      01-04-2008, 09:13 AM   #122
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Are you guys even allowed to have sex??
Are you guys even allowed to be openly heterosexual?
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      01-04-2008, 09:56 AM   #123
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I'm a christian and literally believe every word that's in the bible.

Ron
2 Tim 2:15
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      01-04-2008, 09:15 PM   #124
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I'm a christian and literally believe every word that's in the bible.

Ron
2 Tim 2:15
Dude.....I'm speechless to find a Britt fundie« on a BMW forumů
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      01-04-2008, 10:14 PM   #125
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I'm a christian and literally believe every word that's in the bible.

Ron
2 Tim 2:15
Welcome, newbie!
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      01-05-2008, 07:08 PM   #126
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don't listen to scottwww, he's over-reacting like usual...
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      01-23-2008, 11:06 AM   #127
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Any more Christians on e90post?
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      01-23-2008, 12:30 PM   #128
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room for one more?
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      01-25-2008, 04:35 PM   #129
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I'm a Christian.
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      01-25-2008, 04:49 PM   #130
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room for one more?
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I'm a Christian.
Welcome! There's definitely room for more.
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      02-04-2008, 09:38 PM   #131
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When u reach the age of accountability (age of being able to understand), ye must be born again; born of water (baptism) not of blood (birth & mother). You must be able to understand that God sent His only son to earth as man who taught those around Him about how they should live, what they were to do & asked John to baptize Him as an example to others. He was tortured & went to a death on the cross; to be raised again on the third day.
If you believe this as true, you pray a sinner's prayer and ask forgiveness where you have failed Him, ask Him into your Heart and from that day forward you should live a life that reflects a "changed" person. You put away the old things (the ways your were living) and put on the new (going to church, watching your language & actions, love one another, read your Bible routinely, etc.). That is how you become a Christian...
The Bible is intended to be taken verbatim...It never changes; not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow.
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      02-04-2008, 09:43 PM   #132
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When u reach the age of accountability (age of being able to understand), ye must be born again; born of water (baptism) not of blood (birth & mother). You must be able to understand that God sent His only son to earth as man who taught those around Him about how they should live, what they were to do & asked John to baptize Him as an example to others. He was tortured & went to a death on the cross; to be raised again on the third day.
If you believe this as true, you pray a sinner's prayer and ask forgiveness where you have failed Him, ask Him into your Heart and from that day forward you should live a life that reflects a "changed" person. You put away the old things (the ways your were living) and put on the new (going to church, watching your language & actions, love one another, read your Bible routinely, etc.). That is how you become a Christian...
The Bible is intended to be taken verbatim...It never changes; not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow.

I think that you and people like you are extremely dangerous. You are an extremist findamentalist.
Scottwww, please sent the scary man away…please….all is forgiven!
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