BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-28-2007, 10:03 AM   #1
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Top Gear totally smitten with Nissan GT-R:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoblog
The platitudes keep pouring in for the 2009 Nissan GT-R. Bill Thomas from Top Gear produced our favorite write up by far right before Christmas in which he pits the GT-R against its arch nemesis, the Porsche 911 Turbo, on the back roads of Germany before attacking the Autobahn. His description of accelerating to 190 mph on the 'bahn puts you right there with him riding shotgun as the twin-clutch transmission delivers terrifying levels of velocity with each snick. Thomas actually lays praise on the GT-R's gear box above any of the car's other components, including the twin-turbo VR38 six-cylinder producing 473bhp.

Of course, we all want to know what the Stig thought of Nissan's new supercar, and he fortunately (and mysteriously) walked out of a German forest and demanded a 20-minute drive before reentering the landscape and disappearing. The Stig, however, doesn't speak, so we'll have to wait until the car appears on the television show itself to see how fast it goes on the Top Gear test track with the Stig behind the wheel.

[Source: Top Gear]
http://www.topgear.com/content/featu...ries/12/1.html
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-29-2007, 01:09 AM   #2
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,079
iTrader: (1)

Laptimes are incorrect. The 997TT times are (courtesy of Art here)

7:54 by Horst from Sportauto
7:49 by Walter from Porsche

The 7:40 was a factory estimate from Porsche reported in Motortrend.

If they truly wanted the most "apples to apples" comparison they should have used factory driver time vs. factory driver time. That is 7:38 vs. 7:49. All that being said I think everyone knows my skepticism on the 7:38 time. Of course we all saw it but what does it really mean.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-29-2007, 10:56 AM   #3
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Legacy GT - 13.704@99.39
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

Posts: 1,871
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Laptimes are incorrect. The 997TT times are (courtesy of Art here)

7:54 by Horst from Sportauto
7:49 by Walter from Porsche

The 7:40 was a factory estimate from Porsche reported in Motortrend.

If they truly wanted the most "apples to apples" comparison they should have used factory driver time vs. factory driver time. That is 7:38 vs. 7:49. All that being said I think everyone knows my skepticism on the 7:38 time. Of course we all saw it but what does it really mean.
It means that the GT-R is the real thing, and will likely spawn new competition that will affect most of the performance cars being sold today - except for the very low end of the spectrum.

What I read (in "Car", I think) was that Rohrl was stuck at a bunch of 7:49s with the standard PS2s or whatever, so they went to the PSCs to get that 7:40, safely under the Z06's 7:42.99.

Presto! PSCs became an option on the Porsche Turbo.

That 7:40 has been documented elsewhere, as well.

Bruce
bruce.augenstein@comcast. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-29-2007, 11:05 AM   #4
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Laptimes are incorrect. The 997TT times are (courtesy of Art here)

7:54 by Horst from Sportauto
7:49 by Walter from Porsche

The 7:40 was a factory estimate from Porsche reported in Motortrend.

If they truly wanted the most "apples to apples" comparison they should have used factory driver time vs. factory driver time. That is 7:38 vs. 7:49. All that being said I think everyone knows my skepticism on the 7:38 time. Of course we all saw it but what does it really mean.
That's still not apples to apples comparison. You need to have one independent driver to test both cars in the same condition in the same day with the same tires.
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-29-2007, 12:13 PM   #5
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Of course we all saw it but what does it really mean.

it means for all your blatting about wanting evidence you still can't overcome your bias against the GT-R
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-29-2007, 05:10 PM   #6
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
I believe this month's Topgear magazine features a comparison between the GTR and the Audi R8.

Has anyone see the review or know when the mag is on sale?
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      12-29-2007, 06:54 PM   #7
JEllis
Brigadier General
 
JEllis's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma

Posts: 4,587
iTrader: (4)

Oh the GTR is sexy... If I thought I could get an allocation at MSRP or better than I would probably go to the dark side. But, I think the chances of that are slim....

SEXY
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
JEllis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-29-2007, 10:53 PM   #8
BMW3R
Bimmer User
 
BMW3R's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SLC, UT

Posts: 585
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 Mazda3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
Oh the GTR is sexy... If I thought I could get an allocation at MSRP or better than I would probably go to the dark side. But, I think the chances of that are slim....

SEXY
To me, the car is boxy. I like the rounded corners of the BMW.
__________________
2011 E92 M3 - Space Gray, ZCP, Akra Evo System, aFe filter, PC Stage II Tune & more!!!!

BMW3R is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-29-2007, 11:49 PM   #9
JEllis
Brigadier General
 
JEllis's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma

Posts: 4,587
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW3R View Post
To me, the car is boxy. I like the rounded corners of the BMW.
The design is ahead of its time.

Jason
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
JEllis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-30-2007, 05:14 PM   #10
Voltigeur
MacroRisk
 
Voltigeur's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 E92 ED'09 / 335d Sport DD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX

Posts: 2,519
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by autoblog
"The platitudes keep pouring in for the 2009 Nissan GT-R..."
This wally (not you gbb357) means plaudits not platitudes! Learn the Queen's English, mate!
__________________

Just thinking of something not so witty
///M3 E92 '09 Jerez Black | 6MT | Ext Fox Red | Tech | Prem | 19s |Heated Seats | iPod |Smartphone | Euro Deliv June 09
Sold: 540iT / 530i / 323i
Voltigeur is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2007, 03:01 AM   #11
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,079
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiman View Post
it means for all your blatting about wanting evidence you still can't overcome your bias against the GT-R
No, it means exactly what I said and only what I said - the times as quoted in the review are not an appropriate comparison and that is all it means, period. What you are doing is purely inventing things you think my post means. Talk about prejudice.... I'll say it again, as I have for the 15 millionth time, the GT-R is an amazing car, contains cutting edge tech. and offers an unheard of price to performance ratio. A truly "terrible bias" I have against the car. You need to learn the definition of healthy skepticism a standard approach in any reasonably scientific method or approach.

Furthermore there is no new evidence of anything in this article. This single piece of very old evidence tells us nothing about many of the variables/uncertainties and reasons for skepticism mentioned by many folks. Nor does it address the fact that most N'Ring times, and to many the only "official" N'Ring times, are those from Sportauto with Horst driving.

gbb: What you call "apples to apples" is clearly a fantastic apples to apples type of test. But such tests will almost never happen so you have to take the next best and the next best is a production (NOT pre-production factory car) car driven by Horst.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2007, 04:10 AM   #12
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Just read the Topgear review of the R8 vs GTR and though the Nissan was way quicker in both acceleration and down the course that they tested them on but in the end they preferred the Audi as it feel more right than the clinical approach of the GTR.

I wonder how a comparison between the GTR and the M3 will be based on the above.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2008, 02:59 AM   #13
OzCarfreak
Private First Class
 
OzCarfreak's Avatar
 
Drives: Merc / BMW /Audi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney

Posts: 132
iTrader: (0)

I have gotten my deposit back and am seriously considering putting it down on a 2009 GT-R
OzCarfreak is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-04-2008, 04:17 PM   #14
JEllis
Brigadier General
 
JEllis's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma

Posts: 4,587
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Just read the Topgear review of the R8 vs GTR and though the Nissan was way quicker in both acceleration and down the course that they tested them on but in the end they preferred the Audi as it feel more right than the clinical approach of the GTR.

I wonder how a comparison between the GTR and the M3 will be based on the above.
Got a link to the article?

Jason
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
JEllis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-04-2008, 04:22 PM   #15
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

scans of the r8 vs GTR can be found here: http://www.nagtroc.com/forums/Top-Ge...-R-t20900.html
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2008, 02:42 PM   #16
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

impressive car,

I say 20k over msrp when it comes to the states, maybe even more.

big demand, limited supply
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2008, 03:58 PM   #17
Los Angeles
Steve Forte Rio
 
Drives: 08' 328i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 90036

Posts: 2,396
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearfisher View Post
I say 20k over msrp when it comes to the states, maybe even more.
Over 20k?
Los Angeles is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2008, 05:50 PM   #18
JEllis
Brigadier General
 
JEllis's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma

Posts: 4,587
iTrader: (4)

Yeah some dealerships are asking for 30K over MSRP
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
JEllis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-16-2008, 10:05 PM   #19
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

30k over, we'll see when the buying frenzy starts, should go up even more
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 04:40 PM   #20
JEllis
Brigadier General
 
JEllis's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma

Posts: 4,587
iTrader: (4)

Yeah, although Nissan announced that the 1500 allocation for the first was just an estimate. Latest estimates are as big as 3000 in the first year. I guess we will see.. Even 3000 is a limited number given the probable demand.

Jason
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
JEllis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2008, 03:34 PM   #21
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

Looking forward to driving one, it's probably going to be the best performing car for the money
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2008, 09:10 PM   #22
OC ///M
Dr. Octagon
 
OC ///M's Avatar
 
Drives: Moonstone e92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: So Cal

Posts: 1,811
iTrader: (0)

gbb357:

Thanks for posting the article..interesting read.
__________________
OC ///M

2013 E92 M3 Individual
Sold: 2011 E92 M3 SSII | Sold: 2008 E92 M3 SSII | Into a Wall: 2008 E92 M3 SSII | Sold: 2007 E92 335i JB
OC ///M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:31 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST