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      12-15-2007, 03:16 PM   #23
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I hate to tell you this, but Mormons are Christians.

The Church of Jesus Christ .... they believe in the Bible .... what do you want?

This is how my LDS friends live their lives .... they don't smoke, they don't drink, no tea or coffee, no pre-marital sex, read the Bible, believe in Jesus Christ and strive to become like him.

Sounds like a Christian life to me ....

You have LDS members voting for candidates that don't believe the way they do ... maybe you should follow their example!!
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      12-15-2007, 03:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe View Post
I hate to tell you this, but Mormons are Christians.

The Church of Jesus Christ .... they believe in the Bible .... what do you want?

This is how my LDS friends live their lives .... they don't smoke, they don't drink, no tea or coffee, no pre-marital sex, read the Bible, believe in Jesus Christ and strive to become like him.

Sounds like a Christian life to me ....

You have LDS members voting for candidates that don't believe the way they do ... maybe you should follow their example!!
I don't believe that Mormons are Christians. I have no intention of questioning their lifestyle. I would not necessarily not vote for a Mormon simply because he is a Mormon. I would not vote for a Mormon whose representation would not be compatible with my political objectives.

This may be a stretch, but I will make the analogy anyhow: I would not necessarily not vote for a muslim simply because he is a muslim. I would not vote for a muslim who was a wahhabist. I would be very leary of any muslim seeking the presidency.
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      12-15-2007, 03:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
I don't believe that Mormons are Christians.
You must not know the meaning of Christianity. It’s sad you have this Religious bigotry. Hopefully, one day you will grow out of it.

Here, I thought you would enjoy these ….

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
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      12-15-2007, 04:52 PM   #26
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Note the following quote from, "What Mormons Think of Christ" (LDS publication, pages 32-34):

"Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power. Much is believed and taught on this subject, however, it is utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation."
-http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/..._christian.htm

Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.
-http://www.carm.org/lds/lds_christian.htm

There are dozens of possible definitions of "Christian," (that is, ways in which people use the word) even in addition to those in the dictionary, and they range all the way from very broad ("a Christian is anyone who tries to live his life by the teachings of Jesus") to very, very narrow ("a Christian is someone whose views and beliefs about Jesus Christ are exactly like mine").

In fact, the Mormons think that they (the Mormons) are the only "true Christians."

It is an ironic fact of Mormon history that when I was growing up Mormon in the 1940s, we Mormons were quite proud of the fact that we weren't "Christian," but rather "Mormon." At that time we Mormons understood that to be Christian was to subscribe to all the false doctrines of the Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, and other false churches. It is only in the last few decades that the Mormon church has changed its attitude, and now wants desperately to be considered among the "Christian" churches, probably because they consider that by accepting the label "Christian" they will not appear so unusual in the eyes of unaware prospective converts, who only find out later that the Mormons have quite different definitions of "Christian," "God," and hundreds of other terms used by traditional denominations.
-http://home.teleport.com/~packham/lds-xian.htm

Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.
-http://www.leaderu.com/offices/micha...mormonism.html
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      12-15-2007, 05:02 PM   #27
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      12-15-2007, 05:09 PM   #28
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There are dozens of possible definitions of "Christian," (that is, ways in which people use the word) even in addition to those in the dictionary, and they range all the way from very broad ("a Christian is anyone who tries to live his life by the teachings of Jesus") to very, very narrow ("a Christian is someone whose views and beliefs about Jesus Christ are exactly like mine").

I think most Christians today who are quick to label Mormons as not Christian generally overlook the fact that the earliest followers of Jesus would probably not qualify under their definition of "Christian," either.

If you assert that Mormons are not Christian, that also implies that you have the only valid definition, and that you (and your co-believers) are the only ones who have a right to define the word. That is not the way language works.


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      12-15-2007, 06:46 PM   #29
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As prophet Brigham Young said "How are you going to get to resurrection? You will get it by the President of Resurrection, and that is Joseph Smith, Jun. Hear it all ye ends of the earth; if you ever enter into the kingdom of God it is because Joesph Smith let you go there. This will apply to Jews and Gentiles, to the bond, and free; to friends and foes; no man or woman in this generation will get a resurrection and be crowned with out Joesph Smith saying so"

Quoted directly from "The Essential Brigham Young", Eugene E. Campbell, p.99
That is not a Christian who would say such a thing.
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      12-15-2007, 07:58 PM   #30
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This also is not a Christian belief:
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers" (Journal of Discourses 8:115).

http://www.mrm.org/topics/miscellaneous/faith-brigham-young
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      12-15-2007, 08:39 PM   #31
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The Hippocridiculous Oath......

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
How would a baby be dealt with that was not a victim of abortion, but was born with the same physical condition?
The baby would be off life support and we would let nature takes its course. Isn't that obvious? She said that very plainly in her article......

Quote:
Kev, Would you please bold, italicize, or underline all the parts of the hippocratic oath that you do not follow in your practice (this assumes you have taken an oath). Maybe you could mark what parts were left out of your oath, or what parts you would not subscribe to if you had a choice.
The Oath By Hippocrates Written 400 B.C.E [JESUS CHRIST, this piece is written 2400 years ago...... How "un-in" is that?]

I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses [I don't believe in Greek gods coz I'm a Roman Catholic], that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation [I am paying through my nostrils to go to medical school, so no fee my ass]; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons [The physicians who want their sons to become physicians certainly have no heart coz if you had been through all the beating, you wouldn't want your offspring to through the same crap again[, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others. I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; [Wow, this cannot be more outdated. Didn't we discovered a couple hundred years ago that every thing is toxic and it all depends on the dose? Based on this, I can't even let my patients drink, for Christ's sakes] and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. [I really have no problem with abortion or birth control. There are too many of teenagers that are getting pregnant and their lives just spiral out of control. We really don't need any more of those, especially in the inner city neighborhoods.]With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. [Hmm...... I thought that's what surgeons are supposed to do. Also, am I not supposed to do all the office procedures, inserting IV lines, catheters, and stents? Maybe I'll just let all my patients die then? Oh wait.... at the time of Hippocrates, surgeries are performed by Barbers...... Should we let Fanny who works at the hair salon to take out breast lumps at the same time?] Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!

THE END

Seriously, this affair of the Hippocratic Oath is a joke. It's so fucking outdated that it doesn't apply to the modern world any more.

I say, god forbids, if you needed surgery or you were diagnosed with cancer, please stay at home and die in agony, because:

1. Anesthesia is the incarnation of the devil
2. Analgesic is also the incarnation of the devil
3. Hippocratic oath said that we can't cut you up. You need to go see a barber for it.
4. All medicines, especially the antineoplastic chemotherapeutics, are deadly, so we should not give you any of those.
5. We should not do any imaging studies except for U/S on you because all radiations are deadly
6. We should not use any nuclear medicine techniques to try to cure the tumor because radiation is deadly
7. We can't give you IV or puncture or cut you in any way, shape, or form

As you can see, you are good as fucked when you are sick....... You can try to ride it out, but you should not be seeing any physicians coz none of use really practices the Hippocratic Oath anymore. Oh wait..... you can see a psychiatrist coz they don't do any of the above.
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      12-15-2007, 08:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe View Post
There are dozens of possible definitions of "Christian," (that is, ways in which people use the word) even in addition to those in the dictionary, and they range all the way from very broad ("a Christian is anyone who tries to live his life by the teachings of Jesus") to very, very narrow ("a Christian is someone whose views and beliefs about Jesus Christ are exactly like mine").

I think most Christians today who are quick to label Mormons as not Christian generally overlook the fact that the earliest followers of Jesus would probably not qualify under their definition of "Christian," either.

If you assert that Mormons are not Christian, that also implies that you have the only valid definition, and that you (and your co-believers) are the only ones who have a right to define the word. That is not the way language works.


I can also label all non-Catholics Christian believers as pagans, but that would have gone too far and a bit too narrow-minded like someone on this thread...*cough cough*
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      12-16-2007, 01:25 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev View Post
The baby would be off life support and we would let nature takes its course. Isn't that obvious? She said that very plainly in her article......



The Oath By Hippocrates Written 400 B.C.E [JESUS CHRIST, this piece is written 2400 years ago...... How "un-in" is that?]

I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses [I don't believe in Greek gods coz I'm a Roman Catholic], that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation [I am paying through my nostrils to go to medical school, so no fee my ass]; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons [The physicians who want their sons to become physicians certainly have no heart coz if you had been through all the beating, you wouldn't want your offspring to through the same crap again[, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others. I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; [Wow, this cannot be more outdated. Didn't we discovered a couple hundred years ago that every thing is toxic and it all depends on the dose? Based on this, I can't even let my patients drink, for Christ's sakes] and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. [I really have no problem with abortion or birth control. There are too many of teenagers that are getting pregnant and their lives just spiral out of control. We really don't need any more of those, especially in the inner city neighborhoods.]With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. [Hmm...... I thought that's what surgeons are supposed to do. Also, am I not supposed to do all the office procedures, inserting IV lines, catheters, and stents? Maybe I'll just let all my patients die then? Oh wait.... at the time of Hippocrates, surgeries are performed by Barbers...... Should we let Fanny who works at the hair salon to take out breast lumps at the same time?] Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!

THE END

Seriously, this affair of the Hippocratic Oath is a joke. It's so fucking outdated that it doesn't apply to the modern world any more.

I say, god forbids, if you needed surgery or you were diagnosed with cancer, please stay at home and die in agony, because:

1. Anesthesia is the incarnation of the devil
2. Analgesic is also the incarnation of the devil
3. Hippocratic oath said that we can't cut you up. You need to go see a barber for it.
4. All medicines, especially the antineoplastic chemotherapeutics, are deadly, so we should not give you any of those.
5. We should not do any imaging studies except for U/S on you because all radiations are deadly
6. We should not use any nuclear medicine techniques to try to cure the tumor because radiation is deadly
7. We can't give you IV or puncture or cut you in any way, shape, or form

As you can see, you are good as fucked when you are sick....... You can try to ride it out, but you should not be seeing any physicians coz none of use really practices the Hippocratic Oath anymore. Oh wait..... you can see a psychiatrist coz they don't do any of the above.
Thanks for the info on the hippocratic oath. I hadn't ever looked at it before looking it up. Is it still used and these are the parts you object to, or is there a different oath, or no oath?
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      12-16-2007, 02:08 AM   #34
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I don't know about their religious beliefs but I have a friend who is Mormon and he is the most patient, courtious, and well grounded person that I know. His family is awesome as well.
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      12-16-2007, 11:52 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog 6 View Post
I don't know about their religious beliefs but I have a friend who is Mormon and he is the most patient, courtious, and well grounded person that I know. His family is awesome as well.
I live in one of the two most Mormon states in the U.S. I work with plenty Mormons. I have no problem working with them. I wouldn't exclude Mormons from friendship. I wouldn't exclude Jehovah's Witness' from friendship. In general, their actions are a good testimony of their faith. From what I can see, most live a clean life. Perhaps I will share some stories of what has happened to ex-Mormons (my knowledge of these are from conversation, and not print) if I can find written accounts.

For the presidency, people can choose to vote for whomever they will and for whatever reason. If people generally do not have a clear concept of the differences between Mormon faith and Christian faith before the primaries and caucuses, they certainly would by the time of the general election (if a Mormon is the party nominee). It would be far better to deal with it up front while there are alternatives. In any case, I would not want to see an Obama, Clinton, or Edwards presidency because the party splits the sheets after February.

Romney has explained his decision-making process, and it leave me very uneasy. When he ran for governor, he was emphatic about be "pro-choice." Once he was in the governor's seat, he became pro-life. I am glad he became pro-life. I am very concerned that his strong positions he takes while running for president will be discarded once he sits in the oval office. Of course, this would seem to be more of the same for what has happened with many politicians, but why would I vote for someone who has already demonstrated that propensity if other are available who have not.

The current president of the LDS (Mormon) church (Hinckley, isn't it?) is considered to be a prophet. He has even more influence over the Mormon church than the Pope does over the Catholic church. The Mormon prophets can and have changed their scriptures. Many of those changes have made the Mormons more acceptable to Christians and others. Perhaps this will continue. Perhaps not. Hinckley could have a "revelation" that would change everything. As a good Mormon, if Romney would not be influenced by such revelation, he would be not so good a Mormon anymore. What are the implications of this for Romney and his relationship to the LDS church, and what are the implications for all of us whom he presides over? If Hinkley were replaced with another president/prophet while Romney is president, he could have a very different revelation than the status quo. How would our U.S. President be influenced by the LDS President?

These are fair questions to ask. They must be asked. We must have satisfactory answers. I do not presume to know the answers, but I do have questions.

I would also like to know what was Joseph Smith's race for the presidency like before he was assassinated. If Romney became president, will he or the LDS prophet have a revelation that Romney needs to fulfill that vision.
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      12-16-2007, 08:45 PM   #36
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Without a doubt, if Romney were the Republican nominee, there would be a lot of scrutiny from the left. It would likely come from a lot more angles than any scrutiny he faces from the right. Here is an article I easily found from a lefty. It is a year old, it is interesting, and just a small taste of what would be seen in uncountable publications from the left once it is time for them to put the pedal to the metal. They will easily be able to draw on the fears of both the right and the left.

http://www.slate.com/id/2155902/

And there is an even more interesting wiki article on the assasination of Joseph Smith, the first prophet and founder of the Mormons who holds the keys to heaven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.
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      12-16-2007, 09:14 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci View Post
yeah that is pretty much it. they don't try to hide it at all... ask any mormon. they will all tell you the same thing. i wanted to bang this mormon chick so i went to church with her a few times, sweetest people... also the craziest.
Anyone from any religion can become extremist or crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe View Post
The craziest?? Mormons are the people you should be least worried about ... how about that religion whose followers like to fly planes into buildings, or strap explosives onto themselves and detonate among innocent people, or behead people with a pocketknife.
Agreed, again any religion can take it to the extreme to prove ones validation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y View Post
Religion is for the weak minds..........
Well spoken!!
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      12-17-2007, 01:19 AM   #38
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It's rather long, but an interesting read.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3945/is_200007/ai_n8922399/pg_1

Here is my attempt at a brief summary of some highlights from the article: Joseph Smith favored annexing Canada and Mexico into the United States. He wanted the U.S. to free every convict. He wanted the penitentiaries to be turned into seminaries and to have only murder punishable by confinement or death. As the prophet he received a new revelation to sanction taking multiple wives. By force Joseph Smith suppressed speech, destroying the printing press of a newspaper. He did this because the newpaper revealed the Smith's secret teachings to the inner circle of the Mormon leadership some new corrupt doctrines.

And here are a few excerpts from the above web page document (the heading are my own):

Joseph Smith as presidential candidate

Concerning the annexation of Canada and Mexico:

Smith also favored the annexation of Texas and Oregon to the United States. As the Mormon founder contended: "Oregon belongs to this government honorably; and when we have the red man's consent, let the Union spread from the east to the west sea; and if Texas petitions Congress to be adopted among the sons of liberty, give her the right hand of fellowship, and refuse not the same friendly grip to Canada and Mexico.36 Not surprisingly, Smith realized (as would Brigham Young a decade later) that the degree of liberty required to allow movements like his to flourish was greatly dependent upon the steady expansion of the frontier. The unsettled west invited social experimentation, while the ever-increasing population of the east and midwest meant criticism, conflict, and unrelenting pressure for conformity.

Concerning the freeing of convicts:

The final item on Smith's agenda, and perhaps the most radical plank in his platform, concerned a thoroughgoing reform of America's prison system. In his "Views," Smith exhorted America's citizens to: "petition your State Legislatures to pardon every convict in their several penitentiaries, blessing them as they go, and saying to them, in the name of the Lord, Go thy way, and sin no more.

No punishment for felonies:

"Advise your legislators, when they make laws for ... any felony, to make the penalty applicable to work upon roads, public works, or any place where the culprit can be taught more wisdom and more virtue, and become more enlightened. Rigor and seclusion will never do as much to reform the propensities of men as reason and friendship. Murder only can claim confinement or death. Let the penitentiaries be turned into seminaries of learning, where intelligence, like the angels of heaven, would banish such fragments of barbarism.1141 Again, on this issue Smith demonstrated his faith in the potential deification of humanity. A human race unfettered by the chains of original sin need not adopt a Draconian code of law. Smith also advocated the termination of imprisonment for debt, and of punishing soldiers for desertion. Smith believed that the thought of forfeiting honor would be incentive enough to keep military men at their posts.' Society's first response to crime ought to be an attempt to reintegrate the offender back into the community. Not unexpectedly, that proposal subjected Smith to a degree of ridicule. (An unfriendly newspaper editorial reprinted in the Nauvoo Neighbor remarked that "if this humane recommendation be adopted, the 'specie basis' would soon disappear from Joe's mother bank and branches . . . which would show a 'beggarly account of empty boxes.'")43 However, that view of prison reform was consistent with Smith's concept of the local community and its religious institutions as the level at which moral authority was ultimately exercised. Thus, the federal and state governments would assume a regulatory role in defining crime and overseeing the judicial process, but the reform of the individual perpetrator must be left to the community. By sentencing such convicts to meaningful labor within the community, Smith hoped that their morality might be improved, their personal honor restored, and that they might eventually be reassimilated into society as law-abiding and productive citizens.

The open canon of scriptures:

However, it would be the introduction of radical new doctrines into Mormonism during the Nauvoo period which would lead to the unraveling of Smith's "theodemocratic" principles, and, eventually, to the downfall of Mormonism in Illinois. The LDS church's open canon of scripture suggested the possibility that the next divine revelation might dramatically change the character of the faith. Such was the case with the doctrine of polygamy. As early as 1841 Smith had begun to teach the doctrine of plural marriage to the inner circle of Mormon leadership, and by 1843 he was recording his extra marriages in his journal.51 The introduction of polygamy into Mormonism had two major consequences. First of all, it introduced a large element of instability into Smith's political philosophy. If plural marriage were to be practiced within the LDS church, then suddenly the regulatory duties of the federal government were in direct conflict with the moral and spiritual mission of the community.

Secondly, the new body of doctrine alienated many Mormons who had embraced the faith during the church's earlier days when it more closely resembled traditional Christianity. The new revelations concerning multiple marriage, along with the emerging doctrines concerning the plurality of gods and eternal human progression, precipitated a large departure from the church during the last year of Smith's life. One of those people was a man named William Law. A former counselor of Smith's, Law was appalled by the rumors of those novel teachings, withdrew from the church and established an opposition press known as the Nauvoo Expositor. In the Expositor's first and only issue, the paper stated as its purpose the disclosure of the corruThe open canon of scripturest doctrines that had taken hold within the Mormon church. Indeed, the Expositor was not an anti-Mormon publication; the editors insisted on the first page that "we all verily believe, and many of us know as a surety, that the religion of the Latter Day Saints, as originally taught by Joseph Smith ... is verily true." However, the editors also exhorted the Saints to not ". . . yield up tranquilly a superiority to that man which the reasonableness of past events, and the laws of our country declare to be pernicious and diabolical. We hope many items of doctrine, as now taught, some of which, however, are taught secretly, and denied openly, (which we know positively is the case,) and others publicly, considerate men will treat with contempt; for we declare them heretical and damnable in their influence, though they find many devotees."52

Of course, Smith and the church hierarchy at Nauvoo were outraged. Smith swiftly summoned the Nauvoo city council, and, declaring the Expositor a nuisance to be abated, had the press and as many issues of the paper as he could obtain burned. In a statement later published in the Neighbor, Smith accused the publishers of the Expositor of seeking "the destruction of the institutions of this city, both civil and religious." Consequently, "to rid the city of a paper so filthy and pestilential as this, become the duty of every good citizen, who loves good order and morality... If then our charter gives us the power to decide what shall be a nuisance and cause it to be removed, where is the offense? What law is violated? If then no law has been violated, why this ridiculous excitement and bandying with lawless ruffians to destroy the happiness of a people whose religious motto is 'peace and good will toward all men'?"54
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      12-17-2007, 03:10 AM   #39
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Dude, you are talking about the 1840's .... please help yourself .... pull your head out of your ass!!! We know you are a religious bigot .... don't keep reinforcing that fact by responding anymore.

My God, the Jesus freaks on the right scare me as much as the loonies on the left!

You need to start following the 11th article of Faith ...

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Please try to start living a more Christian life, like an LDS member!

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      12-17-2007, 09:38 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe View Post
Dude, you are talking about the 1840's .... please help yourself .... pull your head out of your ass!!! We know you are a religious bigot .... don't keep reinforcing that fact by responding anymore.

My God, the Jesus freaks on the right scare me as much as the loonies on the left!

You need to start following the 11th article of Faith ...

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Please try to start living a more Christian life, like an LDS member!
It sounds like you are the bigot.
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.
I have asked reasonable questions and offered some opinions.
I have not described any problem with the lifestyle of current LDS people.
I do not object to their identity as different than my own, but to their claiming to be as my own. There is plenty of proof they are not Christian.

Your trying to stop discussion is bigotry. Isn't that also what Joseph Smith did when he destroyed the printing press?
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      12-18-2007, 12:11 AM   #41
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You are like talking to a rock .... the light is on, but no one is at home ....

Please go educate yourself by reading this book...

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      12-18-2007, 11:58 AM   #42
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Rips335iCoupe, why are you making personal attacks against members here? It's just a discussion.

I used to study with the Mormons, I also taught the bible for over 10 years and I can tell you everything scottwww is saying here is quite accurate. Slinging insults is making you look silly.

I like Romney better than some of the liberals, and I think he might make a good president. But you are in denial if you think the majority of mainstream New Testament denominations don't consider Mormonism to be a cult... they do.

And people were talking about this relating to Romney 2 years ago, take a look:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...sullivan1.html
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      12-18-2007, 03:47 PM   #43
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everything scottwww is saying here is quite accurate.
Oh God, another Jesus freak ... you must be drinking the same kool-aid that scotty likes.

If you would like to tell me your denomination, I would be glad to hammer you about all the ridicules’ beliefs it proscribes too.

Let's remember, all denominations broke off from the Catholic Church, except one, so they thought the Catholic practices were not 'Christian' enough for them. They came up with there own interpretations of the Bible .... you could call them all cults too!

Scotty started the personal attacks against LDS member ... so since you seem to like only the words that support your claims, just like little scotty ... here is a post I wrote showing how narrow minded you both are. Right out of an article he referenced!

There are dozens of possible definitions of "Christian," (that is, ways in which people use the word) even in addition to those in the dictionary, and they range all the way from very broad ("a Christian is anyone who tries to live his life by the teachings of Jesus") to very, very narrow ("a Christian is someone whose views and beliefs about Jesus Christ are exactly like mine").

I think most Christians today who are quick to label Mormons as not Christian generally overlook the fact that the earliest followers of Jesus would probably not qualify under their definition of "Christian," either.

If you assert that Mormons are not Christian, that also implies that you have the only valid definition, and that you (and your co-believers) are the only ones who have a right to define the word. That is not the way language works.
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      12-18-2007, 03:52 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaBoy View Post
and people were talking about this relating to Romney 2 years ago, take a look:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...sullivan1.html
You need to read all the post, and let the words sink in .... not just the ones you like!

When Mitt Romney's father ran for the presidency 40 years ago, his Mormonism was not an issue. When Mo Udall was a major challenger for the Democratic nomination in 1976, his religion was so irrelevant that today most people don't even remember that Udall was a Mormon.

Five members of the Senate are Mormon. Are there any intimations that the Mormonism of Harry Reid, Orrin Hatch, Gordon Smith, Michael Crapo or Robert Bennett corrupts, distorts or in any way diminishes their ability to perform their constitutional duties?
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