BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion
 
Steve Thomas BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-04-2007, 06:57 PM   #1
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Is the Z4M in for a hiding?

I see the new TT/RS is all but confirmed according to some source (Worldcarfans among others) and it looks to be running a 5 cylinder turbo producing as little as 310hp but as much as 350hp. Either amount I reckon will give the Z4M a hard time, especially as it's weight should be roughly 100kgs lighter and with an awd system which saps less power than most.

No date as yet but I see from the video footage else where showing the M3CSL it also shows a new and improved Z4, clearly BMW has this Audi in it's sights and must reckon it's a real threat.

Judging by the rest of the cars coming from QuattroGmbH lately that they are right to count it as a threat. Exciting times look to be close by both both brands.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 06:00 AM   #2
UltimateBMW
Brigadier General
 
UltimateBMW's Avatar
 
Drives: MP4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South

Posts: 3,287
iTrader: (0)

Is 5 cylinder accurate?

Also, I imagine the new Z5 M roadster will share the e92 M3's V8. Since it has been typical practice for the M roadster to share the M3's engine. At 414bhp, I don't think there is much to worry about.
UltimateBMW is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 08:53 AM   #3
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
Is 5 cylinder accurate?

Also, I imagine the new Z5 M roadster will share the e92 M3's V8. Since it has been typical practice for the M roadster to share the M3's engine. At 414bhp, I don't think there is much to worry about.

Sorry, but I do believe BMW should be concerned about a TT/RS. Firstly, if the car comes with 350hp the fact that it's turboed should also mean it will probably have nearly the same amount of torque. Secondly, until BMW chose to use aluminium instead of steel the chances are the new one will gain extra weight and also size so instead of the Z4M's 1495Kgs the new one will more likely weigh 1550kgs, that would probably place it up to 200kgs more and this is more than a 64hp increase can overcome.

I don't doubt the BMW will be the more rewarding to drive, it's always been the case but chances are with the TT's weight advantage and stronger torque should mean that the Audi will close this gap by a bigger margin than ever before and could possibly be the quicker of the two.

Also, in the past BMW has always seen the Z cars as driver's old school experience cars and that why no SMG, if the new one follows suit that will give it a disadvantage as the TT/RS will almost certainly come with DSG and might have 7 gears.

So you can see that I reckon BMW are more than just a little concerned by the thought of a TT/RS.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 12:06 PM   #4
Hawkeye
Brigadier General
 
Hawkeye's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 Z4 si Coupe, '08 R6
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holland

Posts: 3,594
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I agree, I don't see any TT as a real threat in performace. For comfortable driving you can get a TT but for real performance the Z4M will still come out on top.
__________________
2007 Z4 3.0si Coupe 6 MT Black Saphire Metallic PP SP Heated M Seats Clutch Stop Stubby
2008 R6 Raven Black GPR Steering Stabilizer Comp Werks FE Hotbodies Flush Mount Blinkers
2008 Nissan Titan XE King Cab Long Bed 4x4 Line-X
Hawkeye is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 12:12 PM   #5
Dammmittt
My favorite sign.
 
Dammmittt's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 M Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Der Autobahnen

Posts: 4,331
iTrader: (0)

It still looks like VW beetle

A 5 cylinder engine would be a first...
__________________


07 ///M Coupe (Premium Package) Black Saphire Ext. Imola Red Int.

Best Website EVER!
Dammmittt is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 12:19 PM   #6
Hawkeye
Brigadier General
 
Hawkeye's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 Z4 si Coupe, '08 R6
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holland

Posts: 3,594
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I have seen inline 5 cylinder engines in an SUV before...
__________________
2007 Z4 3.0si Coupe 6 MT Black Saphire Metallic PP SP Heated M Seats Clutch Stop Stubby
2008 R6 Raven Black GPR Steering Stabilizer Comp Werks FE Hotbodies Flush Mount Blinkers
2008 Nissan Titan XE King Cab Long Bed 4x4 Line-X
Hawkeye is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 02:42 PM   #7
BMWJZ4
Captain
 
BMWJZ4's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 Fiat 500 Sport
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SI, NY

Posts: 684
iTrader: (0)

the 2006 on vw jetta has an inline 5 engine
BMWJZ4 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 02:56 PM   #8
BMW_TT
Colonel
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,550
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to BMW_TT Send a message via MSN to BMW_TT Send a message via Yahoo to BMW_TT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
I have seen inline 5 cylinder engines in an SUV before...
H3
BMW_TT is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 02:57 PM   #9
Greeney
Brigadier General
 
Greeney's Avatar
 
Drives: Jerez E90 M3
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Westchester, NY / Fort Lauderdale, FL

Posts: 3,800
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to Greeney Send a message via MSN to Greeney Send a message via Skype™ to Greeney
Volvos have had 5 cylinder cars for the longest time.
__________________
11' E90 M3 6MT | Jerez Black | Black Ext./Carbon | ZCP | ZCW | ZPP | ZTP | 302 | 403 | 507 | 5AC | 655 | 6FL | 752 |
15' F80 M3 6MT | Black Saphire | Black Full | ZEC | ZLP | 2VF | 2VZ | 5DL | 688 |
Greeney is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 03:47 PM   #10
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
It's not an inline 5 cylinder, it's a Vee 5.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 08:27 PM   #11
UltimateBMW
Brigadier General
 
UltimateBMW's Avatar
 
Drives: MP4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South

Posts: 3,287
iTrader: (0)

From http://www.worldcarfans.com/6061121....ore-audi-tt-rs
Quote:
As can be seen on the photos, the car has a more aggressive front end, larger wheels and brakes. Under the hood the TT RS gets power from a 350 bhp 3.6 litre TSI version. Earlier reports indicated a bi-turbo 2.5 litre in-line 5-cylinder was to be used but probably unlikely.
That says it was infact a straight (inline) 5 engine platform, but it looks like it was an early design.



From http://www.topspeed.com/cars/audi/20...s-ar15071.html
Quote:
And, what ingredients would be necessary for a mean “Porsche-rear-kicking’” TT? First of all, a brand new 2007 TT, which is already available on the market? Second of all, a bored out version of the 3.2 liter V6 power with a 3.6-liter displacement slightly revved until able to produce 365 bhp. Match that with a high end DSG double clutch 7-speed transmission and make all Cayman owners get a knot in their throats. Spice all that with RS4-like racing bucket seats a flat bottom wheel and some carbon fiber.
Seems they are moving away from the inline 5. And honestly a V-5 wouldn't make sense at all since there wouldn't be enough of a balance in the engine with 3 cylinders on one side and 2 on the other. A V5 would shake itself apart.
UltimateBMW is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 08:30 PM   #12
bavarian19
General
 
bavarian19's Avatar
 
Drives: Car
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA

Posts: 18,809
iTrader: (23)

I hate to say it, but I do think that the Z4 (even the Z4M) could use a boost in power. Even if the Z4 were to get the tt3.0 from the 335, that would be a drastic improvement...
bavarian19 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 08:36 PM   #13
imolazhp_ci
Major
 
Drives: Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: orange county

Posts: 1,002
iTrader: (0)

i'll bet you my Z4 M it will absolutely not be an ounce lighter than the Z4M. this audi we are talking about...
imolazhp_ci is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2007, 08:45 PM   #14
Dammmittt
My favorite sign.
 
Dammmittt's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 M Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Der Autobahnen

Posts: 4,331
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
A V5 would shake itself apart.
Not necessarily. It's a lot easier for it to resonate, since it's unbalanced, but there are ways around it. Even so, the cost of modal research to fix it would probably make it unworth it. I doubt an unbalanced cylinder alingment like that makes any significan't performance increase anyway.
__________________


07 ///M Coupe (Premium Package) Black Saphire Ext. Imola Red Int.

Best Website EVER!
Dammmittt is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2007, 02:16 PM   #15
Greeney
Brigadier General
 
Greeney's Avatar
 
Drives: Jerez E90 M3
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Westchester, NY / Fort Lauderdale, FL

Posts: 3,800
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to Greeney Send a message via MSN to Greeney Send a message via Skype™ to Greeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci View Post
i'll bet you my Z4 M it will absolutely not be an ounce lighter than the Z4M. this audi we are talking about...
Your right, your Z4M wont be an ounce lighter than your Z4M. I say it will be about the same...
__________________
11' E90 M3 6MT | Jerez Black | Black Ext./Carbon | ZCP | ZCW | ZPP | ZTP | 302 | 403 | 507 | 5AC | 655 | 6FL | 752 |
15' F80 M3 6MT | Black Saphire | Black Full | ZEC | ZLP | 2VF | 2VZ | 5DL | 688 |
Greeney is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2007, 02:19 PM   #16
epbrown
Colonel
 
epbrown's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M Coupe, Porsche Boxster S
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago, IL

Posts: 2,133
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeney View Post
Your right, your Z4M wont be an ounce lighter than your Z4M. I say it will be about the same...
That would be much more clever if you'd actually read the sentence.
epbrown is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2007, 02:59 PM   #17
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Does it really matter if the engine is a vee or inline or even if it's got 5 or 6 cylinders, surely the most important thing is the output and the torque, if this TT/RS has 350hp and similar torquw from a turbo unit it will surely best the Z4M in acceleration based on it should be at least 140kgs lighter.

As for the rest of it, the DSG 7sp gearbox, well this has been talked about for a while now but as of yet no solid evidence has appeared. The reason why I believe some of the reports are true about it being a 5 cylinder is the weight, this engine in 2.5L form should be lighter than a high-revving 3.6L v6 and that will aid it's handling. Something that Audi seems to be trying very hard to get recognition for and two example of this hard effort can be seen in the RS4 and R8 so why would they fall backwards and produce a dog in the form of the TT/RS.

No, I reckon the TT/RS will be a better handling and performing car than the Z4M in much the same way as the RS4 did compared to the E46 M3 when it was launched.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2007, 03:14 PM   #18
Robert
Major General
 
Drives: 135i, current is350
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Socal

Posts: 6,895
iTrader: (1)

RSTT is not coming to state side.
Robert is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2007, 04:05 PM   #19
Greeney
Brigadier General
 
Greeney's Avatar
 
Drives: Jerez E90 M3
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Westchester, NY / Fort Lauderdale, FL

Posts: 3,800
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to Greeney Send a message via MSN to Greeney Send a message via Skype™ to Greeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
RSTT is not coming to state side.
Says who?
__________________
11' E90 M3 6MT | Jerez Black | Black Ext./Carbon | ZCP | ZCW | ZPP | ZTP | 302 | 403 | 507 | 5AC | 655 | 6FL | 752 |
15' F80 M3 6MT | Black Saphire | Black Full | ZEC | ZLP | 2VF | 2VZ | 5DL | 688 |
Greeney is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2007, 04:51 PM   #20
imolazhp_ci
Major
 
Drives: Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: orange county

Posts: 1,002
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by epbrown View Post
That would be much more clever if you'd actually read the sentence.
haha. nice to see not everyone sucks at the internet.
imolazhp_ci is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:04 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST