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      12-06-2007, 03:53 PM   #177
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the same could be said about people's personal preference on DCT...
+1, It's funny how he says just move on if you don't like the thread, but then he doesn't do that here. Very odd.
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      12-06-2007, 04:57 PM   #178
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Tacky like this...



... or this:



At the end of the day, is what you want that counts not somebody else opinion. However, there's a big difference in what is tacky and what is simply not.
Very nice work, indeed. This is OT, so back to the original theme.
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      12-06-2007, 05:42 PM   #179
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I have a killer idea for how we can improve the sound of any home audio rig. Listen up, regardless the quality of your system, if you simply place a subwoofer............................in the closet, the improvement across the board will be simply amazing! Plenty of tight, punchy bass for all to enjoy!

OK OK, that is off topic though shows how bored we all are with this BS state of the M.

BMW should be flooding us with information in an attempt to make us to hand over a significant amount of $$. It is almost as if the concept of customer service is out the window? Hype will not carry on the M3 lineage in the face of other proper offerings from Germany. Price alone can save it, IF it becomes viewed as a bargain.

So they delay the information and release the model slowly. We wait for years and maybe get a 2008 ~4-5 months before the next dude gets his 2009. The second year the market will be flooded with one on every corner. All the early adopters can hope for is bragging rights to the First Car, and then be saddled with identifying bugs/problems for the successive hordes.

If the price-point comes in the low 50K US MSRP, I don't think anyone will complain too much.
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      12-07-2007, 04:37 PM   #180
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Far from the truth ....

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Originally Posted by Davo2003 View Post
As many of you know, I am going through MIL sales. I do not want to quote the MIL sales price estimate exactly. Many of you will be able to figure it out anyway. But, based on the updated estimate and official MIL sales literature I received a few moments ago I can clear up a few things perhaps. Please understand it is MY belief these numbers/must be close to ground truth due to the source. I am not trying to be an e-hero here so Epacy don't flame me

Base Price - 57.5K plus or minus a few hundred dollars. +delivery + Tax

I did get options package info and dollar estimates and groupings. No surprises except the following. Some are surprises, some are confirmation of suspicions already made on this board.

Base audio system appears to be the same 10 speaker 200 watt system found in the 328i. The upgrade audio (probably to HK Logic 7 Surround) IS listed as a stand alone option for the US market at $700.

Comfort Access is included in the Technology Package but was ALSO listed as a stand alone option at $500.

The power moonroof was NOT listed as a NO COST option, it was $1050.
EDC and 19" were close to predictions at $1400 each. Of course EDC is in the technology Pkg but is $1400 if purchased as a stand alone option.

Last but not least, as I understood it, the US market will NOT be affected by the Euro-Dollar fluctuations to any great degree.
I think your base price estimate is way off. Well maybe not way off, but at least 10K. I expect MSRP to come in at just under $70K if not right at $70K, and then you'll never find one at the dealer for that price.

The E46 M well selling into the $50Ks, and base MSRP was $48K. If you had a vert add another $10K and then the last E46s were $60K.

I think the people that believe the new 'M' is going to be in the 50s are in for a huge awaking when the prices get announced.
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      12-07-2007, 04:42 PM   #181
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I think your base price estimate is way off. Well maybe not way off, but at least 10K. I expect MSRP to come in at just under $70K if not right at $70K, and then you'll never find one at the dealer for that price.

The E46 M well selling into the $50Ks, and base MSRP was $48K. If you had a vert add another $10K and then the last E46s were $60K.

I think the people that believe the new 'M' is going to be in the 50s are in for a huge awaking when the prices get announced.
A base price of 70k for the M3? You're insane. No seriously, you're out of your mind. That puts it in C4 territory, and if you factor in 10k of options + tax/gas guzzler you're looking at mid-eighties. There is no chance in hell this would happen.
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      12-07-2007, 04:58 PM   #182
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I think your base price estimate is way off. Well maybe not way off, but at least 10K. I expect MSRP to come in at just under $70K if not right at $70K, and then you'll never find one at the dealer for that price.

The E46 M well selling into the $50Ks, and base MSRP was $48K. If you had a vert add another $10K and then the last E46s were $60K.

I think the people that believe the new 'M' is going to be in the 50s are in for a huge awaking when the prices get announced.
since when did a vert cost 10K more? also, you're in san fernando, CA. prices are going to be a lot higher (dealer markup) than in the rest of the states. i'm curious if you have any good reason or evidence for picking the MSRP right below 70K...if so, care to share?

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A base price of 70k for the M3? You're insane. No seriously, you're out of your mind. That puts it in C4 territory, and if you factor in 10k of options + tax/gas guzzler you're looking at mid-eighties. There is no chance in hell this would happen.
+1. don't forget tax title and license. even though these are "after the fact" charges that buyers sometimes selectively forget, its makes a big difference between 50, 60, 70K.
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      12-07-2007, 06:07 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcellere View Post
A base price of 70k for the M3? You're insane. No seriously, you're out of your mind. That puts it in C4 territory, and if you factor in 10k of options + tax/gas guzzler you're looking at mid-eighties. There is no chance in hell this would happen.
Just think about it. Go out to any dealer right now and price a fully, and I mean fully loaded E92 335 and see how much it costs. The coupe is $50K, and the Convertible is $60K, just as I said a $10K difference between the coupe and the vert.

So you think that an E92 M3 is going to cost less than a 335 Vert? If so, you're just in denial... Plain and simple...

MSRP may not break the $70K mark, but it is going to be close $67K - $69K.

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since when did a vert cost 10K more?
I don't know how new you're to the BMW scene, but Verts have always been $10K more...
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      12-07-2007, 06:09 PM   #184
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Just think about it. Go out to any dealer right now and price a fully, and I mean fully loaded E92 335 and see how much it costs. The coupe is $50K, and the Convertible is $60K, just as I said a $10K difference between the coupe and the vert.

So you think that an E92 M3 is going to cost less than a 335 Vert? If so, you're just in denial... Plain and simple...

MSRP may not break the $70K mark, but it is going to be close $67K - $69K.
What you said makes sense, however you are leaving out a very important fact. The M3's base model comes with nothing really. That's why the MSRP can be less than the 335i Vert. BMW will make their money on the options.

P.S. I don't know how much it will be this it just my guesstimate like yours.
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      12-07-2007, 06:31 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by ZeroG View Post
Just think about it. Go out to any dealer right now and price a fully, and I mean fully loaded E92 335 and see how much it costs. The coupe is $50K, and the Convertible is $60K, just as I said a $10K difference between the coupe and the vert.

So you think that an E92 M3 is going to cost less than a 335 Vert? If so, you're just in denial... Plain and simple...

MSRP may not break the $70K mark, but it is going to be close $67K - $69K.
A BASE M3 will NOT be around 70k, which you didn't mean when you said MSRP. A fully loaded M3 of course will be north of 70k in all likelihood.
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      12-07-2007, 06:40 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K3N R3D View Post
What you said makes sense, however you are leaving out a very important fact. The M3's base model comes with nothing really. That's why the MSRP can be less than the 335i Vert. BMW will make their money on the options.

P.S. I don't know how much it will be this it just my guesstimate like yours.
Of course I have no hard facts to back up my numbers, other than some simple time series analysis. I remember when the E46 M3 first came out in 2001 base MSRP was $47K, and you never saw one at the dealer for that price. Some dealers marked them up, and some didn't but they were still not $47K.

So the chances of being able to find a "base" M3 is unlikely. I still think that even the base will be in the $60K arena, and I lean more towards the high end of $60K at that.

You can even look at the new 1 series. The 128 is like $28K, and the 135 is $34K which is not a far cry from the 3 series, yet it was a lot high than most people thought they would be.

Last edited by ZeroG; 12-07-2007 at 06:59 PM.
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      12-07-2007, 06:46 PM   #187
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I don't know how new you're to the BMW scene, but Verts have always been $10K more...
If I remember correctly, the difference in price between an E46 Coupe and a Convertible was around $7000 the last model year, 2006. That was more or less the average difference between an E46 Coupe and its Convertible version thru the entire model run.

Now the difference between an E92 Coupe and a Convertible is around $8,000 (and in the 335i the leather is standard, so the difference is actually around $6500) and that is with a folding hard top, which used to be a $2000 option. Even in the 6 Series the difference is around $7000.

So I don't see from where you are coming with "Verts have always been $10K more", much less that the E9x M3 will be close to $70K base...
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      12-07-2007, 06:49 PM   #188
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Of course I have no hard facts to back up my numbers, other than some simple time series analysis. I remember when the E46 M3 first came out in 2001 base MSRP was $43K, and you never saw one at the dealer for that price. Some dealers marked them up, and some didn't but they were still not $43K.

So the chances of being able to find a "base" M3 is unlikely. I still think that even the base will be in the $60K arena, and I lean more towards the high end of $60K at that.

You can even look at the new 1 series. The 128 is like $28K, and the 135 is $34K which is not a far cry from the 3 series, yet it was a lot high than most people thought they would be.
Base price was around $47,000 for a 2001 M3 (I still have my Car and Driver magazine with the test drive), up to $49,995 (leather included) in 2006, my friend...
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      12-07-2007, 06:59 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Base price was around $47,000 for a 2001 M3 (I still have my Car and Driver magazine with the test drive), up to $49,995 (leather included) in 2006, my friend...
My mistake...
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      12-07-2007, 07:04 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
If I remember correctly, the difference in price between an E46 Coupe and a Convertible was around $7000 the last model year, 2006. That was more or less the average difference between an E46 Coupe and its Convertible version thru the entire model run.

Now the difference between an E92 Coupe and a Convertible is around $8,000 (and in the 335i the leather is standard, so the difference is actually around $6500) and that is with a folding hard top, which used to be a $2000 option. Even in the 6 Series the difference is around $7000.

So I don't see from where you are coming with "Verts have always been $10K more", much less that the E9x M3 will be close to $70K base...
I am also

I just check BMWUSA and the 335 coupe is $40K and the Vert in $50K.

As for the E46 Vert and coupe it has always been around $10K difference. The folding hardtop was never an option on the E46. You could a regular hard top, but it was never folding. They were only offered with folding soft tops.

This kind of a stupid thing to be arguing about, and is kind of off base to the original topic.... I guess we'll all see when prices are published.

In my opinion if you think that the E92 M3 is going to be in the $50K range you're diluted, and have one hell of a shock coming...
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      12-07-2007, 09:06 PM   #191
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Diluted?

Is that when you drink too much water?
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      12-07-2007, 11:38 PM   #192
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What was the price hike from an E39 M5 to an E60 M5? Wouldn't you expect to see a similar bump with the M3's?

On a side note, my local dealer will not keep a used M5 on the lot because they are depreciating at the rate of about $1k per month. Can you say "market adjustment"?
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      12-08-2007, 01:49 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroG View Post
So the chances of being able to find a "base" M3 is unlikely. I still think that even the base will be in the $60K arena, and I lean more towards the high end of $60K at that.
if you place an order through the dealer you're going to get whatever M3 you want, whether its "base" or "fully loaded." agree that dealer allocations are not going to "base" models, so if thats what you want you're going to have to order.

Quote:
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I am also
I just check BMWUSA and the 335 coupe is $40K and the Vert in $50K.
Invoice for the vert is 45,170 with MSRP at 49,100
Invoice for the coupe is 37,350 with MSRP at 40,800

The difference in MSRP is 8,300....close to 10K, but not 10K. I don't know how your bank account is, but to me 1,700 is a difference. (btw, difference in invoice is 7,820 FYI)
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      12-10-2007, 07:22 AM   #194
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Diluted?

Is that when you drink too much water?
No, that's when you post stuff that is funny to you and nobody else and you realize the only one laughing at your "joke" is this guy

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      12-10-2007, 08:30 AM   #195
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So they delay the information and release the model slowly. We wait for years and maybe get a 2008 ~4-5 months before the next dude gets his 2009. The second year the market will be flooded with one on every corner. All the early adopters can hope for is bragging rights to the First Car, and then be saddled with identifying bugs/problems for the successive hordes.
Agree. I am quickly losing interest for the need of a 2008 M3 after waiting for months since the initial word from BMW. At this point, I would be very happy to wait it out until summer for the 2009 model with DCT. It will just give me a chance to save more money for my down payment.
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      12-10-2007, 09:25 AM   #196
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for the european, we do not understand what 'MSRP' means.

could you please explain what it is, and what you need to pay ALL inclusive.

For example, 60 000 + tax + ... = total USD xxx

Not to afraid you, there is a big gap between the E92 M3, and the E46.
Expect at least 15 / 20% increase in the price (not even taking into account the big decrease in the USD / EUR x-rate)
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      12-10-2007, 10:10 AM   #197
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MSRP stands for manufacturer's suggested retail price. this does not include destination, tax, license, or registration. there is no VAT (value added tax) like in many european countries, but dealers sometimes charge higher than MSRP on high demand vehicles like the M3 because they know that people are willing to pay a markup in order to get the car first. because taxes vary by state, there is no way to say what its going to cost "ALL inclusive," although i'm fairly certain that the destination charge is $775. hope that explains it a bit better.
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      12-10-2007, 10:12 AM   #198
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for the european, we do not understand what 'MSRP' means.

could you please explain what it is, and what you need to pay ALL inclusive.

For example, 60 000 + tax + ... = total USD xxx

Not to afraid you, there is a big gap between the E92 M3, and the E46.
Expect at least 15 / 20% increase in the price (not even taking into account the big decrease in the USD / EUR x-rate)
"MSRP" is the Manufacturer's Sugested Retail Price. In the case of the M3, it is BMW's suggested price without any taxes or fees, of the vehicle and any options. This price is stated in a window sticker, mandated by law.

In the USA, taxes vary by state and fees vary by dealer and location.

If past history is to be trusted, the USA market pricing for BMW's has never followed the rest of the world, as models here have been constantly and considerably cheaper than equivalent models overseas.

Regardless, the M3 that we will see here could be easily considered a stripper, as no leather, Nav system or Top HiFi system will be standard. This also could contribute in keeping any MSRP increase within market limits.
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