E92 track Prep and mods

[red998]

Hey Guys

I tried to search but didn't find anything close to what I am looking for.

What are some weak points on the E92 M3 that should be changed to reduce failure of parts or increase reliability?

So far I am looking at rear subframe bushings, rear differential bushings, cooling for front brakes and the rod bearings. Any other items that could be on this list?

These parts are not so much to go faster but reduce the possible failures. Subframe failure has a lot of flex and impacts the rear diff- 10K if that fails. front brakes desperately need some cooling. Rod bearings are well known. I spoke to someone who said the wheel bearings should be upgraded because they rarely give any sign of failure and just go.

Any feed back or info for the guys who track will be greatly appreciated.

RED

[EAZ7]

Bumping this up as i am also interested in the above...

to add are many people using rear toe arms, uprated oil coolers for the engine, gearbox diff ect...

[slicer]

First would be dedicated track wheels with appropriate tires. Coilovers and BBK would also be at the top of my list.

There is a lot of debate about the rod bearings but I wouldn't worry about replacing them until the car has some miles on it... 40 to 50k. Plus there really isn't an "upgraded" rod bearing. There is a coated bearing that is supposed to have some advantages. I'm not convinced.

If you want more power then a cat delete and a tune.

Next up would be front and rear aero (splitter / wing) and/or seats and harnesses.

[s14_kev]

Originally Posted by slicer

First would be dedicated track wheels with appropriate tires. Coilovers and BBK would also be at the top of my list.

There is a lot of debate about the rod bearings but I wouldn't worry about replacing them until the car has some miles on it... 40 to 50k. Plus there really isn't an "upgraded" rod bearing. There is a coated bearing that is supposed to have some advantages. I'm not convinced.

If you want more power then a cat delete and a tune.

Next up would be front and rear aero (splitter / wing) and/or seats and harnesses.

Seems like the OP is looking for 'reliability' mods rather than "go fast" parts which is why he couldn't find much info in other threads. I do agree with everything you said though regarding performance upgrades for the track.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by kevin///mlee

Seems like the OP is looking for 'reliability' mods rather than "go fast" parts which is why he couldn't find much info in other threads. I do agree with everything you said though regarding performance upgrades for the track.

I was getting that, and I would classify BBK and track wheels as reliability mods. The wrong tires will melt and chunk after a few sessions. The OEM brakes are a big weak point and can have issues on the track (warped rotors, chunking of pads).

[bigjae1976]

100% agree with the BBK.

Wheel bearings? Never knew that to be a common problem.

I tracked my E90...18x10 wheels at all 4 corners, BBK, camber plates, dinan stage 2 suspension, and harnesses. The only thing I would add to that are the rear subframe and diff bushings at some point. I'd plan for 50k rod bearings for a heavily tracked car as a super conservative interval.

Other than that, IMO, its all about lap times. The stock suspension is pretty damned good!

[Hujan]

Slicer's points are good. My list in order of importance:

1. 18" wheels and tires that can take track abuse
2. Brake upgrades (pads and fluid or a dedicated BBK)
3. Suspension (coilovers and sway bars)
4. Improved cooling (i.e., oil cooler, maybe DCT pan if you have a DCT)

[EAZ7]

thanks for the above info.

Hujan what is a DCT pan?

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by EAZ7

thanks for the above info.

Hujan what is a DCT pan?

The oil pan for the DCT transmission. Gintani makes a larger billet one to replace the OEM plastic one. If you can't get a larger heat exchanger/cooler, the next best thing is to increase fluid volume and use metal construction instead of plastic. That's my plan for the power steering and probably the DCT too.

[dogbone]

What kind of tracking are you going to do with the car? Super hardcore and tons of it? These infrastructure mods that you've listed are good mods for squeezing the last bits of performance out of the car, not entry level mods.

My E90 M3 has been on the track over 70 times in 3 years and while I have modded the car (s/c, suspension, BBK), I haven't done any of the things you've listed and none of them has broken or been a problem:

-subframe bushings - no
-diff bushings - no
-brake cooling - no
-rod bearings - no, but watching with Blackstone reports. (Car has been supercharged for over 30k miles and all track days have been done with the supercharger on there.)
-wheel bearings - no
-rear toe arms - no
-upgraded oil cooler - no
-upgraded gearbox diff - no (i have dct)

I don't know how you plan on tracking the car, but if you're just gonna take it out there and track a few times a year, then don't bother. Just go drive the car and have fun. The parts BMW put on the car are made for this kind of punishment. If, however, you're building a purpose built track toy, then go crazy.

If you want to go crazy, I have a few more for you:

-solid engine mounts - no
-front control arms - no
-front sway bar - yes, although I only just did it a month ago.
-rear sway bar - no
-studs - yes

And then you can really go into crazy-land:
-gut the car
-lexan windows
-a/c delete
-battery size reduce
-roll cage
-race seats
-harness
-removal of wiring
-fire suppression
-fuel cell
-full aero front and rear
-fibre glass body panel replacement


Or you could just change your brake fluid, get some track pads, get a second set of wheels and go have fun.

[EAZ7]

I picked my car up on Monday the 20th of october changed the oil and filter, put pagids in the front and blue race fluid and took it to Snetterton on the 2nd of november and Brands hatch on wednesday the 12th... very wet and rear end was loose...

thanks for the tips and advice i have emailed Black stone to see if i can send them a sample from the UK...

cars next track outing will be in February 2015

many thanks

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by dogbone

What kind of tracking are you going to do with the car? Super hardcore and tons of it? These infrastructure mods that you've listed are good mods for squeezing the last bits of performance out of the car, not entry level mods.

My E90 M3 has been on the track over 70 times in 3 years and while I have modded the car (s/c, suspension, BBK), I haven't done any of the things you've listed and none of them has broken or been a problem:

-subframe bushings - no
-diff bushings - no
-brake cooling - no
-rod bearings - no, but watching with Blackstone reports. (Car has been supercharged for over 30k miles and all track days have been done with the supercharger on there.)
-wheel bearings - no
-rear toe arms - no
-upgraded oil cooler - no
-upgraded gearbox diff - no (i have dct)

I don't know how you plan on tracking the car, but if you're just gonna take it out there and track a few times a year, then don't bother. Just go drive the car and have fun. The parts BMW put on the car are made for this kind of punishment. If, however, you're building a purpose built track toy, then go crazy.

If you want to go crazy, I have a few more for you:

-solid engine mounts - no
-front control arms - no
-front sway bar - yes, although I only just did it a month ago.
-rear sway bar - no
-studs - yes

And then you can really go into crazy-land:
-gut the car
-lexan windows
-a/c delete
-battery size reduce
-roll cage
-race seats
-harness
-removal of wiring
-fire suppression
-fuel cell
-full aero front and rear
-fibre glass body panel replacement


Or you could just change your brake fluid, get some track pads, get a second set of wheels and go have fun.

I disagree with a little bit of this. I view the mods I listed as preventative mods.

I don't want to have to deal with any broken diff bolts or subframe damage, so I opted to get ahead of the curve and swap in solid bushings in those areas.

Sure, you could track on the OEM brakes with upgraded pads and fluid (which I have), but I like the idea of boxing the OEM stuff, beating the snot out of a BBK, then putting the OEM stuff back on the car when I go to sell it. I can then sell the BBK and get a little money back on that.

Things to help cool the engine oil, DCT fluid, and PS fluid just help prolong those systems. Tracking is hard on the car as is; no need to make it any harder on the car than it needs to be.

But to each their own!

[RickyBobby]

Originally Posted by dogbone

What kind of tracking are you going to do with the car? Super hardcore and tons of it? These infrastructure mods that you've listed are good mods for squeezing the last bits of performance out of the car, not entry level mods.

My E90 M3 has been on the track over 70 times in 3 years and while I have modded the car (s/c, suspension, BBK), I haven't done any of the things you've listed and none of them has broken or been a problem:

-subframe bushings - no
-diff bushings - no
-brake cooling - no
-rod bearings - no, but watching with Blackstone reports. (Car has been supercharged for over 30k miles and all track days have been done with the supercharger on there.)
-wheel bearings - no
-rear toe arms - no
-upgraded oil cooler - no
-upgraded gearbox diff - no (i have dct)

I don't know how you plan on tracking the car, but if you're just gonna take it out there and track a few times a year, then don't bother. Just go drive the car and have fun. The parts BMW put on the car are made for this kind of punishment. If, however, you're building a purpose built track toy, then go crazy.

If you want to go crazy, I have a few more for you:

-solid engine mounts - no
-front control arms - no
-front sway bar - yes, although I only just did it a month ago.
-rear sway bar - no
-studs - yes

And then you can really go into crazy-land:
-gut the car
-lexan windows
-a/c delete
-battery size reduce
-roll cage
-race seats
-harness
-removal of wiring
-fire suppression
-fuel cell
-full aero front and rear
-fibre glass body panel replacement


Or you could just change your brake fluid, get some track pads, get a second set of wheels and go have fun.

I'm with you. 5 years and still going strong. I do the wheel bearings every 2 years though.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by dogbone

What kind of tracking are you going to do with the car? Super hardcore and tons of it? These infrastructure mods that you've listed are good mods for squeezing the last bits of performance out of the car, not entry level mods.

My E90 M3 has been on the track over 70 times in 3 years and while I have modded the car (s/c, suspension, BBK), I haven't done any of the things you've listed and none of them has broken or been a problem:

-subframe bushings - no
-diff bushings - no
-brake cooling - no
-rod bearings - no, but watching with Blackstone reports. (Car has been supercharged for over 30k miles and all track days have been done with the supercharger on there.)
-wheel bearings - no
-rear toe arms - no
-upgraded oil cooler - no
-upgraded gearbox diff - no (i have dct)

I don't know how you plan on tracking the car, but if you're just gonna take it out there and track a few times a year, then don't bother. Just go drive the car and have fun. The parts BMW put on the car are made for this kind of punishment. If, however, you're building a purpose built track toy, then go crazy.

If you want to go crazy, I have a few more for you:

-solid engine mounts - no
-front control arms - no
-front sway bar - yes, although I only just did it a month ago.
-rear sway bar - no
-studs - yes

And then you can really go into crazy-land:
-gut the car
-lexan windows
-a/c delete
-battery size reduce
-roll cage
-race seats
-harness
-removal of wiring
-fire suppression
-fuel cell
-full aero front and rear
-fibre glass body panel replacement


Or you could just change your brake fluid, get some track pads, get a second set of wheels and go have fun.

+1. While I dont have that much track time but possibly 5K. Everything stock and I changed the shocks to Bilstein EDC just because... Stock brakes (PF 2 piece rotors). Car is bullet proof and is consistently quicker than my 911S on almost all track I attend. Only issue I had was engine mounts collapsed (fixed under CPO). There is a slight clunk from the rear (during reverse and when you apply brakes). Possibly diff bolt (god forbid rear suspension). But it has taken a LOT of tough driving.

Very very pleased with the E9X M3.

64K on clock.

Lutfy

[red998]

Thanks for replies.
Some misunderstood what I am asking for but I did get insight from the replies.

Why replace wheel bearing every 2 yrs? What's the interval based on?

Subframe and diff bolts I think there is enough hx so I would rather replace vs repair.

[RickyBobby]

Originally Posted by red998

Thanks for replies.
Some misunderstood what I am asking for but I did get insight from the replies.

Why replace wheel bearing every 2 yrs? What's the interval based on?

Subframe and diff bolts I think there is enough hx so I would rather replace vs repair.

I replace my front wheel bearings every two years because they wear out. Ticking and increased brake pad knockback are the symptoms. This is likely from running r-comps at NorCal tracks with high compression turns. The good news is that wheel bearings are relatively cheap and easy to replace.
I suspect my motor mounts are wearing out at 50k miles so I'll be inspecting and replacing them shortly.

[red998]

Awesome! I will look out for it. If it's cheap I would rather change it ahead of schedule.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

I replace my front wheel bearings every two years because they wear out. Ticking and increased brake pad knockback are the symptoms. This is likely from running r-comps at NorCal tracks with high compression turns. The good news is that wheel bearings are relatively cheap and easy to replace.
I suspect my motor mounts are wearing out at 50k miles so I'll be inspecting and replacing them shortly.

I'm curious----when you replace the hub, and you're looking at the bare hub, can you feel anything weird with the hub? Any play? Any grinding? Any stiffness with the bearings?

And do you replace with BMW parts? Or do you use an alternate like F.A.G.?

I had to replace a hub at 44k because the threads got stripped with a broken stud……but the hub seemed pristine---smooth as butter and no oddities at all. I was bummed to have to replace it…...

[RickyBobby]

The first time around, one was clicking in corners and the pad knockback was worse than usual. The usual tests like shaking the wheel by hand didn't show any abnormal wear. When removed they felt normal, maybe a bit less smooth. I probably could have extended the interval and even just replaced the one side, but I didn't want to chance it. The replacements cured both issues.
I used the f.a.g. brand and it looked identical to the original part I removed from the car, right down to the logo.

[red998]

I am adding Camber plates to this list. I should have placed them on when I did the springs. Going with vorshlag because you can use them with OEM or coilovers with the purchase of some additional hardware.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by red998

I am adding Camber plates to this list. I should have placed them on when I did the springs. Going with vorshlag because you can use them with OEM or coilovers with the purchase of some additional hardware.

Vorshlags are nice. I have them and like them a lot. I had GC street plates on my stock suspension and GC race plates with my JRZ. The GC race plates started creaking after awhile while turning the steering wheel. I replaced them with Vorshlag. The Vorshlags have been on the car longer than the GC plates and still no issues at all. And I drive the car harder now than when I had the GC plates.

The main bearing on the Vorshlags is super beefy. If my number recollections are correct, the Vorshlag bearing is rated for around 7500lbs and the GC race plate bearing is rated around 4500lbs.

You'll like the Vorshlags.

[///S65]

Are the Vorshlag plates up-gradable? I thought you had to get a brand new kit if you upgrade to coilovers.

Originally Posted by red998

I am adding Camber plates to this list. I should have placed them on when I did the springs. Going with vorshlag because you can use them with OEM or coilovers with the purchase of some additional hardware.