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      06-04-2007, 02:52 PM   #23
southlight
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Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
I tell you. You could drive it and you wouldn't even know it was there.
+1
You don't notice anything unless you want to. Unlike the hill start assistant which is really cool imho.

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      06-04-2007, 03:05 PM   #24
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+1
You don't notice anything unless you want to. Unlike the hill start assistant which is really cool imho.

Best regards, south
Yeah, that is really useful.
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      06-04-2007, 09:03 PM   #25
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I think you've jumped to some conclusions about what you think 'soft-stop' actually is, and what it feels like, otherwise you wouldn't be dwelling on things like "normal driving" and "road conditions".

The road conditions are pretty irrelevent really. It is a minor aspect of the driving experience and therefore I go back to my original point that people are getting their knickers in a twist about something which isn't a big issue.

Just to make it clear so you know what soft-stop is. When you apply the foot brake to come to a stop, in a normal car unless you ease off very slightly on the brake, the car will come to a jerky stop. Soft-stop allows you to apply the same constant brake pressure, and for the very last fraction of a second it will release the brakes allowing you to come to a smooth stop. It is hardly noticeable.

The road conditions are irrelevent. You can still come to an abrupt stop in the same way as you would without 'soft-stop'.

I find it bizarre that you are complaining about something which you haven't even experienced yet!


I tell you. You could drive it and you wouldn't even know it was there.
Look, the car interferes with the braking system as you brake, one way or another, "noticable" to various degrees--probably depends on who you ask. It is not safety related and therefore not necessary. I personally don't like the idea/concept/principle. I am, in principle, opposed to any such intervention when it comes to handling unless it makes things safer. I want to be able to make jerky stops if I feel like it. There is nothing you need to or can prove. It's subjective. Your original post merely reflects your own preference/opinion.
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      06-05-2007, 01:24 AM   #26
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Look, the car interferes with the braking system as you brake, one way or another, "noticable" to various degrees--probably depends on who you ask. It is not safety related and therefore not necessary. I personally don't like the idea/concept/principle. I am, in principle, opposed to any such intervention when it comes to handling unless it makes things safer. I want to be able to make jerky stops if I feel like it. There is nothing you need to or can prove. It's subjective. Your original post merely reflects your own preference/opinion.
Maybe experience the system for yourself, then you might be in a position to comment.
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      06-05-2007, 01:54 AM   #27
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Maybe experience the system for yourself, then you might be in a position to comment.
You just don't get it do you? You've been arguing in circles about something that is inherently subjective (you are making the same mistake in the other thread about people making modifications to their cars, and how that should be for Japanese cars only). First, you said it wasn't noticable, then you said it was, and then you again said it wasn't. Which one is it? I am against it in principle, and do not need to experience it to comment on it. It's like saying I don't like red. Do I need to buy a red car to be able to say that? It's like the nonsense active steering system BMW created. I didn't need to experience that to know that I wouldn't like it either. Whatever...
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      06-05-2007, 04:43 AM   #28
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You just don't get it do you? You've been arguing in circles about something that is inherently subjective (you are making the same mistake in the other thread about people making modifications to their cars, and how that should be for Japanese cars only). First, you said it wasn't noticable, then you said it was, and then you again said it wasn't. Which one is it? I am against it in principle, and do not need to experience it to comment on it. It's like saying I don't like red. Do I need to buy a red car to be able to say that? It's like the nonsense active steering system BMW created. I didn't need to experience that to know that I wouldn't like it either. Whatever...
Against my better judgement I'm going to respond to this. I suggest you keep quiet unless you want to make an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have.

The point is that soft-stop has such a minor affect on the driving experience that you could quite happily drive the car and not even know it's there. Only if you CHOOSE to let it intervene by the way you bring the car to a stop does it ever become noticeable.

Not sure I understand the relevance of liking red, modding your car, or the active steering. These are things which are impossible to hide on your car. If you had no choice but to buy the E92 M3, in red, modded and with active steering (if it was even an option) then quite rightly you'd better like these things because they are impossible to ignore on the car.

However, soft-stop is very easy to ignore on the cars which are so equipped. If you think soft-stop has the same impact on the driving experience as active steering (which I don't like), then you are very much mistaken.

Once again, I wouldn't comment on something which you quite clearly know nothing about.
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      06-05-2007, 05:48 AM   #29
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Against my better judgement I'm going to respond to this. I suggest you keep quiet unless you want to make an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have.

The point is that soft-stop has such a minor affect on the driving experience that you could quite happily drive the car and not even know it's there. Only if you CHOOSE to let it intervene by the way you bring the car to a stop does it ever become noticeable.

Not sure I understand the relevance of liking red, modding your car, or the active steering. These are things which are impossible to hide on your car. If you had no choice but to buy the E92 M3, in red, modded and with active steering (if it was even an option) then quite rightly you'd better like these things because they are impossible to ignore on the car.

However, soft-stop is very easy to ignore on the cars which are so equipped. If you think soft-stop has the same impact on the driving experience as active steering (which I don't like), then you are very much mistaken.

Once again, I wouldn't comment on something which you quite clearly know nothing about.
You are in no position to tell anyone to keep quiet on this forum, so use whatever little judgement you have before responding to posts. Such language simply reflects on your person.

You just can't get it, can you? The magnitude of the effect does not matter; I just don't want a semi-intelligent intervention as a part of the breaking system unless it is safety related (even then I'd like to have the option of turning it completely off), and that is my personal attitude toward technology and handling. The system is there to make a difference—no matter how small and even if it is under certain conditions. And as I've said several times, maybe I do like coming to abrupt jerky stops. You simply don't understand how some people relate to their cars, and what their personal philosophy dictates as to what is appropriate in the design of a car and what is not (for themselves). You clearly are not sophisticated enough in these matters to have formed a philosophy of your own, not to mention to respect the principles of others. Go to some custom made car shows, talk to the creators, learn about the different philosophies, and maybe then, you'll have some perspective and clue as to what I am talking about. Oh, reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance might help as well. Good luck man!
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      06-05-2007, 07:18 AM   #30
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You are in no position to tell anyone to keep quiet on this forum, so use whatever little judgement you have before responding to posts. Such language simply reflects on your person.

You just can't get it, can you? The magnitude of the effect does not matter; I just don't want a semi-intelligent intervention as a part of the breaking system unless it is safety related (even then I'd like to have the option of turning it completely off), and that is my personal attitude toward technology and handling. The system is there to make a difference—no matter how small and even if it is under certain conditions. And as I've said several times, maybe I do like coming to abrupt jerky stops. You simply don't understand how some people relate to their cars, and what their personal philosophy dictates as to what is appropriate in the design of a car and what is not (for themselves). You clearly are not sophisticated enough in these matters to have formed a philosophy of your own, not to mention to respect the principles of others. Go to some custom made car shows, talk to the creators, learn about the different philosophies, and maybe then, you'll have some perspective and clue as to what I am talking about. Oh, reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance might help as well. Good luck man!


What's the saying? "Give someone enough rope......."

I've said all I have to say on this matter.
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      06-05-2007, 08:16 AM   #31
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What's the saying? "Give someone enough rope......."

I've said all I have to say on this matter.
Kind of interesting how you found yourself in exactly the same spot on two independent threads at the same time, so indeed there is not much more to be said. Regards,
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      06-05-2007, 08:25 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
You are in no position to tell anyone to keep quiet on this forum, so use whatever little judgement you have before responding to posts. Such language simply reflects on your person.

You just can't get it, can you? The magnitude of the effect does not matter; I just don't want a semi-intelligent intervention as a part of the breaking system unless it is safety related (even then I'd like to have the option of turning it completely off), and that is my personal attitude toward technology and handling. The system is there to make a difference—no matter how small and even if it is under certain conditions. And as I've said several times, maybe I do like coming to abrupt jerky stops. You simply don't understand how some people relate to their cars, and what their personal philosophy dictates as to what is appropriate in the design of a car and what is not (for themselves). You clearly are not sophisticated enough in these matters to have formed a philosophy of your own, not to mention to respect the principles of others. Go to some custom made car shows, talk to the creators, learn about the different philosophies, and maybe then, you'll have some perspective and clue as to what I am talking about. Oh, reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance might help as well. Good luck man!
LOL how the absence of any real news from this forum has elevated a predilection for "abrupt, jerky stops" to a "philosophy"!

If Aristotle were still alive...
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      06-05-2007, 08:49 AM   #33
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LOL how the absence of any real news from this forum has elevated a predilection for "abrupt, jerky stops" to a "philosophy"!

If Aristotle were still alive...


And something which may be above the head of some people.
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      06-05-2007, 09:39 AM   #34
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LOL how the absence of any real news from this forum has elevated a predilection for "abrupt, jerky stops" to a "philosophy"!

If Aristotle were still alive...
i would be happy to continue this discussion if the two of you:

1) visit at least 5 custom car shows (please post your admission stubs as proof)
2) read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (we can do a little reading quiz)

regards,
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      06-05-2007, 09:42 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by lucid View Post
i would be happy to continue this discussion if the two of you:

1) visit at least 5 custom car shows (please post your admission stubs as proof)
2) read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (we can do a little reading quiz)

regards,
I would rather boil my plums.
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      06-05-2007, 10:24 AM   #36
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I would rather boil my plums.


You crack me up.
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      06-05-2007, 10:29 AM   #37
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i would be happy to continue this discussion if the two of you:

1) visit at least 5 custom car shows (please post your admission stubs as proof)
2) read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (we can do a little reading quiz)

regards,
Look, I'm sure you're a nice person so lets just accept that people are different and they have different view points. I have nothing against you personally, I just cannot accept what you are saying about the soft-stop thing as it is a minor part of the driving experience, and you haven't even tried it yet.

Bugger. I said I wasn't going to continue this discussion.
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      06-05-2007, 10:46 AM   #38
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Look, I'm sure you're a nice person so lets just accept that people are different and they have different view points. I have nothing against you personally, I just cannot accept what you are saying about the soft-stop thing as it is a minor part of the driving experience, and you haven't even tried it yet.

Bugger. I said I wasn't going to continue this discussion.
Fine. I don't expect you to accept anything. This was fun.
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      11-15-2007, 03:53 PM   #39
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So what happened to "soft stop"?

There is no evidence in this from any of:
  • My sales brochure
  • My handbook
  • iDrive
  • subjectively from driving the car

I guess it went away?
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      11-15-2007, 04:00 PM   #40
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There is no evidence in this from any of:
  • My sales brochure
  • My handbook
  • iDrive
  • subjectively from driving the car
I guess it went away?
Yes, SoftStop went away. The other DSC+ features should be there, though.

Best regards, south
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