Sponsored by The Tire Rack

[Epacy]

Some light reading while we wait on M3 pricing.

This looks like solid confirmation of Cup + tires being OE.

The recently introduced Michelin Pilot Sport Cup + has been approved as original equipment on the latest version of the BMW M3, launched in the second half of 2007. Already OE for the coupe version of the M3, the Pilot Sport Cup + is the French tyremaker’s top-of-the-line sports tyre. Developed for high speed track racing, it also meets all the requirements of public highway driving, as evidenced by the “DOT” marking on the sidewall.

Description of the compounds used.

The technology ensconced within the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup + enables the tyre to handle extreme track conditions while delivering optimal grip for safe everyday driving. To achieve this dual objective, Michelin implemented a two-compound design. Because wet-road driving makes considerable demands on the inside shoulder, silica has been included in this section of the tread, thus guaranteeing superior traction on slippery surfaces. Inversely, carbon black is used on the outer shoulder for maximum grip on dry surfaces. These two different blends, each of which is adapted to a specific type of use, are rarely seen together on the same tyre. Michelin claims that its ability to combine technologies that are normally incompatible is what makes the Pilot Sport Cup + a truly innovative product.

[southlight]

Thanks, E
Now nobody can say that BMW cheated using these on several tests...

Best regards, south

[Just_me]

is this information from bmw or Michelin?

[southlight]

from Michelin

source: http://www.reifenpresse.de/CDML007/e...97&RecID=14471
and here for the German speaking: http://www.reifenpresse.de/CDML007/d...85&RecID=40500

Best regards, south

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by southlight

Thanks, E
Now nobody can say that BMW cheated using these on several tests...

Best regards, south

Exactly.

[footie]

Does this mean that these will be the tyres that will come on your car if you spec the 19" alloys or do you have to require them on placing your order?

[devo]

Originally Posted by southlight

Thanks, E
Now nobody can say that BMW cheated using these on several tests...

Best regards, south

Agreed that nobody can say BMW cheated, but it still gives the M an unfair track advantage. Flame away!

[southlight]

Originally Posted by footie

Does this mean that these will be the tyres that will come on your car if you spec the 19" alloys or do you have to require them on placing your order?

Not really sure yet. The german article indicates the former though...


Best regards, south

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by devo

Agreed that nobody can say BMW cheated, but it still gives the M an unfair track advantage. Flame away!

Don't try and ruin another thread by going off-topic AGAIN.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by devo

Agreed that nobody can say BMW cheated, but it still gives the M an unfair track advantage. Flame away!

Most cars are being tested on Cup tires either (R8, RS4, BS), so we're just talking about 997S, again...


Best regards, south

[Epacy]

Why was this moved? This is M3 news not discussion about what wheels to buy and what size will fit.

[southlight]

Seems like all tire related topics "come" to this section!?


Best regards, south

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by devo

Agreed that nobody can say BMW cheated, but it still gives the M an unfair track advantage. Flame away!

I think I more or less side with you on this one. Tires are the least expensive and easiest way to drastically change the handling/track performance of a car. One reasonable defintion of an apples to apples comparison is indeed 100% stock vs. 100% stock. However another very interesting apples to apples comparison is stock vs. stock with as similar type of tires as possible, meaning UHP vs. UHP or UHP+ vs. UHP+.

If the E92 M3 ends up besting the 911S on the Ring you may be able to argue that without the tires it would not, or vice versa, if you put equivalent tires on the 911S it would come right back and best the M3.

[chitown08]

Whats going on? Is this for real? Cups? OE?

http://www.automotiveworld.com/ACM/c...ontentid=64798
http://www.reifenpresse.de/CDML007/e...97&RecID=14471

[devo]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Don't try and ruin another thread by going off-topic AGAIN.

That's really unnecessary. There is nothing OT about my post nor did I post anything unreasonable. In the future I'll try not to ruin a good thread with facts. You should consider dismounting that high horse.

Best wishes,
Devo

[Just_me]

I can't believe all the talk about R-tires. Sportauto has tested several cars on streetlegal R-tires so the new M3 isn't alone. Audis, Benzes, porsches, ferrari to name a few are cars being tested with streetlegal R-tires.
Why is this a problem now?

If others can "cheat" then so can bmw. And I dont get the fear that M3 is going to be faster than a 911 around N-ring. Noone is going to cancel or sell their 911's becuase of this.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Just_me

I can't believe all the talk about R-tires. Sportauto has tested several cars on streetlegal R-tires so the new M3 isn't alone. Audis, Benzes, porsches, ferrari to name a few are cars being tested with streetlegal R-tires.
Why is this a problem now?

If others can "cheat" then so can bmw. And I dont get the fear that M3 is going to be faster than a 911 around N-ring. Noone is going to cancel or sell their 911's becuase of this.

I don't believe that BMW is cheating either. Comparative tests should be conducted on the same type tire; that's all. Any other test is unfair.

You are right, most late model cars have run the Ring on CUP tires. The 911S has not.

[13eastie]

I haven't read the articles.

My 19" rims came with Michelins, but they are NOT Cups.

[Just_me]

Originally Posted by devo

I don't believe that BMW is cheating either. Comparative tests should be conducted on the same type tire; that's all. Any other test is unfair.

You are right, most late model cars have run the Ring on CUP tires. The 911S has not.

To me its not the cheating part that seem to be the problem for you. It seem to be the possible beating on the 997S on the N-ring. Do you own a 911 ?
It's the RS4 the M3 need to beat, not the Porsche.

[footie]

Originally Posted by devo

I don't believe that BMW is cheating either. Comparative tests should be conducted on the same type tire; that's all. Any other test is unfair.

You are right, most late model cars have run the Ring on CUP tires. The 911S has not.

The 997S might not have been running CUP tyres but I believe it was using Ceramic brakes.

In any case I feel all tests should be conducted with a few choices, in the case of the M3 we should be able to see the difference in times with 18" and 19" options and what ever tyre options are available, same goes for the other manufacturers.

The only think I do know is that different tyres options like the difference between 18" and 19" or UHP and UHP+ will effect the way the car behaves and it's not necessarily the quickest option that is the most enjoyable one to own and live with.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Just_me

To me its not the cheating part that seem to be the problem for you. It seem to be the possible beating on the 997S on the N-ring. Do you own a 911 ?
It's the RS4 the M3 need to beat, not the Porsche.

I have owned three 911's, too include the turbo and two E46 M3's. If you need more help, look over at the left at "drives". Does that help you?

I doubt the M will beat the 911S on the ring without the aid of CUP tires, but we've already been there way too many times. I hope that it does, however, for two reasons: 1) I am very likely buying the M (Price?) and want it to perform as goood as it can. 2) Better competition yields better competing products; i.e. Porsche may step up the performance of the fl 911 and subsequent year 911's.

Enough of rehashing this BS again. Do a search if you need more banter. Get a grip on reality. A fair test is a fair test. What I drive, drove or want to drive isn't the motivating factor. Truth in testing is. Porsche 911's and BMW M's are cars that inspire me, period.

To me it seems that it is the arguement for you. Do you like to argue?

[footie]

Originally Posted by Just_me

To me its not the cheating part that seem to be the problem for you. It seem to be the possible beating on the 997S on the N-ring. Do you own a 911 ?
It's the RS4 the M3 need to beat, not the Porsche.

In all honesty who is really that concerned whether it's the RS4, C63 or M3 which is the quicker.

I believe you buy the car not so much on the lap times it does but the way it feels while driving it, if I was so concerned as to how quick the M3 was I probably would be keeping the S5 as where I live most of the year it's raining and there would be no doubt that the Audi would be the quicker in these conditions, but it's the pleasure that the M3 gives over the S5 that is important to me and the reason why I am so looking forward to owning it.

Always remember the real reason why you are driving what it is you are driving.