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      11-12-2007, 04:59 AM   #1
Aija
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Speeding Ticket

Well......I got nailed for speeding..only 2weeks after i got my car.

I was driving on 680North which I think i was going about 75ish mph, car behind was going about the same speed, Escalade flying past me at about 90mph. CHP cuts the car behind me and starts taillgating me for 2minutes (he hasnt turned on the siren). Everytime I switch lanes, he switched lanes rapidely. Finally, im about to take the exit (he is still taillgating me), and finally turns on the siren. Pulls me over, writes up his ticket and says "Nice car.....sign here". I was cited for 80mph on a 65.


So my question to you Santa Clara County people in the bay area, any of u guys did trial of written declaration? If you lose the written declaration, do u still have the option of traffic school?

P.S. The cop said he used "Lidar"..thought they used radar for highways?

Last edited by Aija; 11-12-2007 at 05:22 AM.
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      11-12-2007, 07:07 AM   #2
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If he just came up behind you, he was pace clocking you...
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      11-12-2007, 07:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aija View Post
Well......I got nailed for speeding..only 2weeks after i got my car.

I was driving on 680North which I think i was going about 75ish mph, car behind was going about the same speed, Escalade flying past me at about 90mph. CHP cuts the car behind me and starts taillgating me for 2minutes (he hasnt turned on the siren). Everytime I switch lanes, he switched lanes rapidely. Finally, im about to take the exit (he is still taillgating me), and finally turns on the siren. Pulls me over, writes up his ticket and says "Nice car.....sign here". I was cited for 80mph on a 65.


So my question to you Santa Clara County people in the bay area, any of u guys did trial of written declaration? If you lose the written declaration, do u still have the option of traffic school?

P.S. The cop said he used "Lidar"..thought they used radar for highways?
Lidar is a laser speed measuring system. It is also instant on so a detector only works if someone else is the target before you. Because Lidar reads velocity from a fixed position the spotter could have been parked BEHIND an overpass support and targeted you as you passed his position. Lidar can only be used from a fixed point meaning its useless from a moving vehicle so it is likely you were picked off by a CHP speed enforcement team using one parked vehicle to do the measurement and roving vehicles that actually make the stop. Unless you were the only vehicle matching the general description the spotter used it is likely the guy that stopped you was clocking you when he was "tailgating" you. Did you slow down when you saw him behind you?

Speed enforcement teams are normally assigned to enforce an area where there was a recent accident related to speeding. The main stat that is used to evaluate an officers performance is the accident rate in his patrol area. If the accident rate stays the same or goes down he is considered to be doing his job. If the accident rate goes up it will attract the attention of his supervisor and a speed enforcement team will be called in to cover his bosses butt.

BTW:

The speed teams do not get points for the number of tickets they write, however...
Although this is considered wrong in most jurisdictions on occasion the local watch commander may start a "ticket pool" by putting say $10 or $20 in his hat. The hat is then passed around and those who join in match the amount. At the end of the watch the guy that writes the most tickets wins.
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      11-12-2007, 07:58 AM   #4
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well said!
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      11-12-2007, 11:10 AM   #5
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I believe in CA they they are not allowed to use Radar on the highway. If he use LIDAR, and not sure why he did not just pull you over right away. It sounds a bit suspicious to me. When I lived out there it was very unusually to get a speeding ticket on the highways, they usually got you for lane changing and tailgating since those caused more accidents.

Anyway, I believe you are correct if you do TBD and loose, traffic school is not an option. Buy you can appeal and TBD and go in front of a judge.

If you interested in fighting the ticket check this sit out.

http://www.radardetector.net

There is a guy on there that is very knowledge about CA laws and another guy that knows everything you need to know about fighting LIDAR tickets

Lastly, check this site out about CA laws and fighting tickets.

http://www.helpigotaticket.com/index.html

Last edited by Maestro; 11-12-2007 at 12:07 PM.
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      11-12-2007, 11:21 AM   #6
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you should be able to contest by mail. just wait until your ticket comes home and it'll list your options. i can't remember if you're still allowed to take traffic school it doesn't yield in your favor. i just remember that the process takes forever. last time i did it, i didnt get a respose for about 6 months.
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      11-12-2007, 11:22 AM   #7
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if the chp was pacing you.. then even a radar wont work.
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      11-12-2007, 12:00 PM   #8
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dude I got a ticket last week in the Northridge area driving 75 mph when everyone was doing 80+ and I was in the carpool with my daughter. But the CHP officer decided I was going too fast. I'm thinking he saw me in the carpool and didn't notice my daughter, then when he did notice my daughter he didnt want to seem like the ass that he is and wrote me up for 75 on a 65....he didnt even pace me..
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      11-12-2007, 12:21 PM   #9
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One last point about the LIDAR ticket in California there is no judicial notice on the use of LIDAR. Which means that the LIDAR have not been demonstrated or is generally accepted as a accurate way of making Speed measurement. Using this defense is usually done in front of a judge, you could put this forward in a TBD and argue that the officer did not provide any documentation that is use of LIDAR was correct or accurate.

Last edited by Maestro; 11-12-2007 at 03:09 PM.
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      11-12-2007, 12:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aija View Post
Well......I got nailed for speeding..only 2weeks after i got my car.

I was driving on 680North which I think i was going about 75ish mph, car behind was going about the same speed, Escalade flying past me at about 90mph. CHP cuts the car behind me and starts taillgating me for 2minutes (he hasnt turned on the siren). Everytime I switch lanes, he switched lanes rapidely. Finally, im about to take the exit (he is still taillgating me), and finally turns on the siren. Pulls me over, writes up his ticket and says "Nice car.....sign here". I was cited for 80mph on a 65.


So my question to you Santa Clara County people in the bay area, any of u guys did trial of written declaration? If you lose the written declaration, do u still have the option of traffic school?

P.S. The cop said he used "Lidar"..thought they used radar for highways?
if he said he got you at 80, then you probably were going 80 and not 75"ish". You might have wanted to ask to see the radar/lidar? I rememered watching the news a few months ago about a new system they have where they can pinpoint an individual car to get the speed so he can tag a car that's between two cars. I believe that was for the bay area i think.
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      11-12-2007, 12:31 PM   #11
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I got nailed a few weeks back with a laser trap. I really felt compelled to ask the officer what his favorite beer was...


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      11-12-2007, 12:35 PM   #12
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LIDAR for 80 in a 65 with a possible fine and points... I would just get an attorney. Hopefully you can find one for <$400. Never a guarantee, but if there is a way out, they probably have a better chance of finding it than you.

Although you might get lucky... I got my last ticket dropped because the officer cited an invalid statute (he wrote down the wrong number .
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      11-12-2007, 01:10 PM   #13
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Sounds kind of shotty. But, you were speeding. No reason not to get a lawyer though, can probably get you off on a technicality.
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      11-12-2007, 01:40 PM   #14
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80 on a 65 is only 15 over the limit... the fine will not be that large (less than 150)...if u have the time go to the court and plead guilty in front of the judge and he will reduce the fine by a considerable amnt.... if u plead guilty, u will also be able to take the traffic school.... a cpl of months ago i got one for 61 on a 45... thats 16 over the limit.... my fine was arnd 220( with traffic school option) i went to court and the fine was reduced to arnd 115 iirc..
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      11-12-2007, 01:45 PM   #15
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hmm if I saw a cop I would have slowed down to either 65 or 70, not continue going 75 and switch lanes as this would only give him more reason to notice you. What could have happened was that you got nervous and stepped on the gas without even noticing it (thus he paced you for going 80). I know it's shitty but I that happened to me once. I got pulled over on 680 for going 80 and I was 2 miles from home.

But like others have said, he was probably just pacing you instead of using Lidar. Besides, I thought they're still just testing out the Lidar?? It's not officially been accepted yet and as of now, very few cops have them.
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      11-12-2007, 03:41 PM   #16
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The CHP has never been given the money by the state to buy RADAR or LIDAR but the law does allow them to use it. Most radar units used by the CHP were "donated" by the cities and counties they patrol for enforcement since the cities and counties get to add "enhancements" to the fine. In some counties these add on's are greater than the original fine and because they are added over the fine the judge has no option in reducing them.
The CHP was given a large number of LIDAR units through a LEAA grant from our conservitive friends in DC who always make a big deal out of supporting law enforcement because it increases revenue without raising taxes.
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      11-12-2007, 04:19 PM   #17
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The CHP has never been given the money by the state to buy RADAR or LIDAR but the law does allow them to use it.
I am not sure this is 100% true, the reason most CHP do not use Radar is because it's use is limited to areas where proper surveys were done to allow them to be used. If the radar survey are not done they are by Calif law and definition a Speed Trap which is illegal in Calif.
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      11-12-2007, 05:26 PM   #18
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One last point about the LIDAR ticket in California there is no judicial notice on the use of LIDAR. Which means that the LIDAR have not been demonstrated or is generally accepted as a accurate way of making Speed measurement. Using this defense is usually done in front of a judge, you could put this forward in a TBD and argue that the officer did not provide any documentation that is use of LIDAR was correct or accurate.
Very true..

Also lidar suffers from the "slip" effect. Meaning that unless the laser is pointed in the same spot on the car for the second it takes to get a reading then it could be off..

Basically lidar works by taking several distance measurements, but if he starts on the hood of your car and it moves up almost near the glass its adding that distance measure in, which can add up to 30-40mph onto your speed.

Below videos show slip effect.

Part 1

Part 2



One last thing.. If your speed indicated in your bmw said 80 mph you were only really going 75-76ish, if it said 75ish then you were going 70-72ish.
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      11-12-2007, 07:20 PM   #19
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hmm if I saw a cop I would have slowed down to either 65 or 70, not continue going 75 and switch lanes as this would only give him more reason to notice you. What could have happened was that you got nervous and stepped on the gas without even noticing it (thus he paced you for going 80). I know it's shitty but I that happened to me once. I got pulled over on 680 for going 80 and I was 2 miles from home.

But like others have said, he was probably just pacing you instead of using Lidar. Besides, I thought they're still just testing out the Lidar?? It's not officially been accepted yet and as of now, very few cops have them.
Thats the thing..i was going 75ish (hell could have been 80 at one point)...but i saw the CHP come from 2miles back...he was also in the fast lane with a car infront of him..so i slow down to 65 at this point. I thought he was going to pull over the escalade who was going about 90mph in the third lane but decided to go infront of the car behind me following me.

At this point the escalade freaked out and slammed his brakes going at the same speed as me now. I think i was even going 60 at this point and switched lanes twice (20seconds apart from each other) .. Right when i signal to take the exit, i got the siren...

Oh well... I havent gotten a speeding ticket in 3 years. Usually i just plead guilty and go to traffic school. I just thought this time around I'd fight it. If i was going like 85 or something and he just pulled me over right away, id just plead guilty. But him playing games is what makes me go
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      11-13-2007, 12:10 PM   #20
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Sorry to hear about the tix. It's one of those things in life that happens to everyone..it's inevitable. I'm surprised you get cited for that though because whenever I get on the freeway, I usually have my needle straight up, at 80mph. Granted, I might be lucky, but I did get a speedy last Oct. near Paso Robles, got clocked at 81 in 55 zone. Amount $390, not including traffic school and court fees. Took online traffic school, paid fines, moved on.

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