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      11-12-2007, 05:24 PM   #1
Davo2003
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Question M3 slated for X6 4.4L Twin Turbo

Just saw this in the X6 thread...

"According to my local dealer, the U.S. WILL get the 3 liter tt engine for the X6 3.0si. This is the same award winning inline 6 cylinder as in the 335 and the 535. Additionally, the V8 tt will be a new 4.4L tt engine. The car is totally designed for intercoolers, so it's nice to get two variants with turbos."

If the X6 gets a 4.4L Twin Turbo, what exactly will stop BMW from dropping it into a 2009/2010 MY M3?

Yes, I know I have brought up a similar thread previously, but sounds like more fact than fiction day by day. As the horsepower and sales wars heat up, BMW may have their hand forced on this one.
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      11-12-2007, 05:36 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo2003 View Post
Just saw this in the X6 thread...

"According to my local dealer, the U.S. WILL get the 3 liter tt engine for the X6 3.0si. This is the same award winning inline 6 cylinder as in the 335 and the 535. Additionally, the V8 tt will be a new 4.4L tt engine. The car is totally designed for intercoolers, so it's nice to get two variants with turbos."

If the X6 gets a 4.4L Twin Turbo, what exactly will stop BMW from dropping it into a 2009/2010 MY M3?

Yes, I know I have brought up a similar thread previously, but sounds like more fact than fiction day by day. As the horsepower and sales wars heat up, BMW may have their hand forced on this one.
Because its supposed to have a lower output (~400hp) than the M3 V8 aswell as a redline that's at least 1k lower.

Best regards, south
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      11-12-2007, 05:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
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Because its supposed to have a lower output (~400hp) than the M3 V8 aswell as a redline that's at least 1k lower.

Best regards, south
Thanks for that info...I am sure they could easily tweak the proper amount of torque and HP out of it for an M3, especially in light of the fact aftermarket companies can get, what was it, 400HP out of a 335?
Sounds like something brewing to me especially with M3's now reportedly sitting on some lots?
We will see, hope I am wrong and this engine lasts many years.
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      11-12-2007, 06:01 PM   #4
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BMW likes their M dynasties, roughly a new version of each car every 7 years. When they release a version I don't think they have ever gone back and performed a major overhaul on a engine (I would consider changing the car from a NA to a DI a major overhaul, at least in philosophy if not mechanically).

That being said unless M3 sales are just not happening at all then there is no reasonable chance that BMW will add a turbo to the e9X M3. You'll have to wait 7 years for the next-gen 3 series model for that little gem.
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      11-12-2007, 07:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Because its supposed to have a lower output (~400hp) than the M3 V8 aswell as a redline that's at least 1k lower.

Best regards, south


...and because it's slated for X5 duty.
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      11-12-2007, 07:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo2003 View Post
Yes, I know I have brought up a similar thread previously, but sounds like more fact than fiction day by day. As the horsepower and sales wars heat up, BMW may have their hand forced on this one.
How so? Because you came up with the idea, now it sounds like fact?
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      11-12-2007, 07:48 PM   #7
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It's not that simple. You don't simply take an engine which has significantly more power and drop it into existing car unless you have planned for it in advance and designed your drivetrain to accomodate the increase in torque. In other words, with a lower revving torque monster, the entire drivetrain would have to be redesigned and gain weight in the process--not to mention the engine you are referring to would most likely weigh more than the E92 M3 engine to begin with. Who wants all that extra weight? I don't. The M3 is already getting porky like the Audis. Then there is the issue of what one can realistically achieve with all the extra torque in a RWD car unless you live in Germany. The corvette has 600hp. I personally don't see that I can ever put that to some kind of meaningful use on the road without I or someone else ending up in the ditch. I'll take my M3 to the track once a month, but even then, I don't know that an additional 150hp (with the additional weight) would make it more enjoyable or not.
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      11-12-2007, 08:07 PM   #8
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I like the idea of a twin turbo V8 for higher elevations, but I doubt that I would need the power on a day to day basis. At 4,000 to 6,500 feet above sea level, a NGA V8 loses some of the punch.
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      11-13-2007, 01:05 AM   #9
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I am a supporter of FI but lucid is right, such an engine would have to have been in their plans for the M3 all a long, there would be too much modifing needed to keep the overall package competitive, no only acceleration.

The whole point of FI is to lower the capacity not increase it, if any M cars would receive this engine then it would be the M5/6. But even them would require a new heavier gearbox because the V10 isn't what you would call a torque monster now is it.
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      11-13-2007, 01:50 AM   #10
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It goes against M philosophy in so many different ways. This issue has been hammered to death on this forum.

1) BMW doesn't touch their precious M engines until the 7 year recycle
2) The redline won't be high enough
3) As of now (lots of talk about M turning to DI), M cars are only high revving, low displacement naturally aspirated engines
*Not to mention that BMW will never, never share an engine between it's consumer line and M line, never.


Those are the main points I can think of. Lots of technicians on the forum can go into major detail explaining why a consumer DI engine simply can't meet M standards.

Last edited by x5love; 11-15-2007 at 02:34 AM.
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      11-13-2007, 05:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x5love View Post
It goes against M philosophy in so many different ways. This issue has been hammered to death on this forum.

1) BMW doesn't touch their precious M engines until the 7 year recycle
2) The redline won't be high enough
3) As of now (lots of talk about M turning to DI), M cars are only high revving naturally aspirated engines
*Not to mention that BMW will never, never share an engine between it's consumer line and M line, never.


Those are the main points I can think of. Lots of technicians on the forum can go into major detail explaining why a consumer DI engine simply can't meet M standards.
Corrected that for you.

Best regards, south
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      11-13-2007, 02:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
How so? Because you came up with the idea, now it sounds like fact?
As stated in my previous thread, I was concerned due to my experience with the 330i in 06. The all new body style with the "all new" and revolutionary 255hp engine which lasted one model year run. The following year 330i was dropped permanently for the 335 Twin Turbo as we all know. So, to answer your question, now I read of a twin turbo 4.4L engine debuting...just seems more fuel for the fire of a possible sooner than later M3 engine tweak or upgrade. MY OP was to bring out opinions from members that were helpful and would lend to the debate or debunk the notion of an engine change.
So that is my answer to your question.
As for the rest of your comments, members here are all too familiar with the Epacy banter...a better use of your time would be to wax your Maxima.
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      11-13-2007, 02:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo2003 View Post
As stated in my previous thread, I was concerned due to my experience with the 330i in 06. The all new body style with the "all new" and revolutionary 255hp engine which lasted one model year run. The following year 330i was dropped permanently for the 335 Twin Turbo as we all know. So, to answer your question, now I read of a twin turbo 4.4L engine debuting...just seems more fuel for the fire of a possible sooner than later M3 engine tweak or upgrade. MY OP was to bring out opinions from members that were helpful and would lend to the debate or debunk the notion of an engine change.
So that is my answer to your question.
As for the rest of your comments, members here are all too familiar with the Epacy banter...a better use of your time would be to wax your Maxima.
there is no way in hell they are going to discontinue use of the brand new m v8 in the next few years. no chance.
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      11-13-2007, 02:59 PM   #14
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there is no way in hell they are going to discontinue use of the brand new m v8 in the next few years. no chance.
I wasn't proposing they would discontinue the engine, just tweak it for an edge on the competiton.
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      11-13-2007, 06:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo2003 View Post
As for the rest of your comments, members here are all too familiar with the Epacy banter...a better use of your time would be to wax your Maxima.
Epacy banter? You mean logic and sound reasoning? Thank you!

You continue to emit class and show your maturity.
You've obviously proven that you aren't a materialistic snob.

This board has come to expect nothing less from you. We only expect you to continue in your next reply.
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      11-13-2007, 06:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo2003 View Post
I wasn't proposing they would discontinue the engine, just tweak it for an edge on the competiton.
This is what you said in your first post....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo2003 View Post
If the X6 gets a 4.4L Twin Turbo, what exactly will stop BMW from dropping it into a 2009/2010 MY M3?
From that bolded statement you mean to tell us that you weren't proposing that BMW "drop" the X6 engine in the M3? You were clearly stating to put the X6 engine in the M3, not tweak the current M3 engine.
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      11-13-2007, 06:48 PM   #17
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Bottom line... There will be no engine change for the next 7 years.

Also, if trend is any indication, expect the Z5 M Roadster/Coupe to run this exact same engine with little to no modification.
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      11-13-2007, 07:29 PM   #18
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Really really really doubt we will see FI engines in M cars......

Jason
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      11-13-2007, 08:17 PM   #19
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a 7k redline. Thats what.
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      11-13-2007, 09:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo2003 View Post
Just saw this in the X6 thread...

"According to my local dealer, the U.S. WILL get the 3 liter tt engine for the X6 3.0si. This is the same award winning inline 6 cylinder as in the 335 and the 535. Additionally, the V8 tt will be a new 4.4L tt engine. The car is totally designed for intercoolers, so it's nice to get two variants with turbos."

If the X6 gets a 4.4L Twin Turbo, what exactly will stop BMW from dropping it into a 2009/2010 MY M3?

Yes, I know I have brought up a similar thread previously, but sounds like more fact than fiction day by day. As the horsepower and sales wars heat up, BMW may have their hand forced on this one.

You need to understand BMW's motivations for the M engines. You will only see a turbo motor in a M car if the F1A adopts turbos in Formula 1 otherwise the M cars will continue to focus on high revs and naturally aspirated engines (and reducing the weight of the cars).

That V8TT is a total mismatch of the M philosophy today.....and you won't see it in an M3 anytime soon. I will put money behind my words.
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      11-13-2007, 09:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
This is what you said in your first post....



From that bolded statement you mean to tell us that you weren't proposing that BMW "drop" the X6 engine in the M3? You were clearly stating to put the X6 engine in the M3, not tweak the current M3 engine.
Pretty sad...you haven't even read my OP correctly so your response is way off target...
Wax on wax off...
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      11-13-2007, 09:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
You need to understand BMW's motivations for the M engines. You will only see a turbo motor in a M car if the F1A adopts turbos in Formula 1 otherwise the M cars will continue to focus on high revs and naturally aspirated engines (and reducing the weight of the cars).

That V8TT is a total mismatch of the M philosophy today.....and you won't see it in an M3 anytime soon. I will put money behind my words.
Thank you for this post and others like it. Informative...that is one reason this board exists I would guess...
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