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      07-23-2014, 06:24 PM   #1
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Stoptechs

Has anyone bought Stoptechs and not been happy with their performance on the track? If so, which company would you have gone with?
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      07-23-2014, 07:36 PM   #2
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They are great on track. only complaint is that you sometimes have to file down the pad backing plate to fit correctly. no big deal if you have a belt sander.
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      07-23-2014, 07:38 PM   #3
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Are you talking about their street pads, race pads, or BBKs? I used their Street Perf pads on the track when I was in the intermediate group (and still use them in the rear with race pads in the front now that I'm in the advanced groups), and I still use them on the road. No complaints.

I also have their ST-60 BBK on my front axle and love it. Fade isn't an issue anymore, the pedal feels more solid, and the easy pad swaps are awesome. The only thing I've found is that the pads are an EXTREMELY tight fit into the caliper top to bottom, so I now have my shop grind down those edges of the backing plate a tiny bit. StopTech said this shouldn't be necessary and sent me new calipers, but they had the same issue with both their own pads and my PFC 08 race pads. Someone else I met at the track had the same experience but decided to hammer the pads in, which to me seemed like a recipe for very difficult removal and possibly having your brakes bind in the caliper. I told him about the grinding, and after he switched to that, he said he was getting a much better transfer layer on his rotors.

No experience with StopTech's race pads, but from what I've read here, they seem ok, particularly considering their cost, but not amazing.
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      07-23-2014, 08:18 PM   #4
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I don't think there is anything wrong with StopTechs, but if I did it again I would strongly consider AP Racing. I would just check pad availability for my purposes.
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      07-23-2014, 08:22 PM   #5
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It is not the pads that are the problem for the tight fit issue on the ST60. It is bottom abutment plate. To satisfy the posers that put these on their cars but whined about noise and rattle, they modified that abutment plate to make the pads a tighter fit. They screwed it up for a batch of them and made it too tight. They will fix it but expect you to send the calipers back to do it. What a PITA. The calipers have now supposedly been corrected. Mine pre-date this but my friend's have it and it sucks.
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      07-24-2014, 11:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
It is not the pads that are the problem for the tight fit issue on the ST60. It is bottom abutment plate. To satisfy the posers that put these on their cars but whined about noise and rattle, they modified that abutment plate to make the pads a tighter fit. They screwed it up for a batch of them and made it too tight. They will fix it but expect you to send the calipers back to do it. What a PITA. The calipers have now supposedly been corrected. Mine pre-date this but my friend's have it and it sucks.
Ugh, well it sounds like my original and replacement calipers were both part of the affected batch. Whatever, it's not worth the hassle and labor cost of replacing them at this point; I'll just keep asking the shop to grind down the backing plates slightly when I buy new pads. Although StopTech (despite my contacting them to ask) never sent information for returning my original calipers when they shipped the replacements, so I did get an extra pair of calipers out of this, I guess.
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      07-24-2014, 12:07 PM   #7
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Nice to have an extra set of calipers. Remove the abutment plate and grind it down. Removing calipers is easy. It is the hassle of having to go without a car. They expected my friend to ship his back to get them corrected. That put him out of a car. If they would send out a replacement caliper and then let you send the bad one back, that is not so bad, but I'd want them to comp me something for the headache.
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      07-24-2014, 01:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
Nice to have an extra set of calipers. Remove the abutment plate and grind it down. Removing calipers is easy. It is the hassle of having to go without a car. They expected my friend to ship his back to get them corrected. That put him out of a car. If they would send out a replacement caliper and then let you send the bad one back, that is not so bad, but I'd want them to comp me something for the headache.
Yeah, maybe when I'll next be getting my brake fluid flushed anyway I'll ask the shop to do this. I'll also need an set of pads that hasn't been ground down, which I don't currently have because as soon as I buy new pads I get them ground down so that they're ready to go whenever I need them.
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      07-24-2014, 03:08 PM   #9
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I have the ST 380 F / 365 R drilled rotors with ST street pads and it is more than enough for any track, including brutal pull downs from 150+mph at Big Willow in the 90+ degree desert summertime heat with my blown 650 M3. Stock brakes couldn't do that for more than 2 laps.
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      07-24-2014, 03:14 PM   #10
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Thanks for the input. I am leaning towards the Essex AP kit, I like the functional look.
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      07-24-2014, 03:38 PM   #11
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Bought my kit brand new 60-40's not one issue with swapping pads, very easy and braking power on the track is just awesome. I run track pads on the track.
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      07-25-2014, 07:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder
I have the ST 380 F / 365 R drilled rotors with ST street pads and it is more than enough for any track, including brutal pull downs from 150+mph at Big Willow in the 90+ degree desert summertime heat with my blown 650 M3. Stock brakes couldn't do that for more than 2 laps.
Why drilled?
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      07-25-2014, 06:43 PM   #13
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I love my Trophy Kit. Would recommend it. Running their stock street pads at the track with good performance.
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      07-25-2014, 11:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Why drilled?
Cause it looks sick!

I've heard other says drilling the rotors degrades their integrity but I've had no issues and put them through some brutal track conditions.
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      07-25-2014, 11:40 PM   #15
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Junior Strauss got StopTech after he FRIED his stock brakes... like LITERALLY cooked them.

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      07-26-2014, 07:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Why drilled?
Cause it looks sick!

I've heard other says drilling the rotors degrades their integrity but I've had no issues and put them through some brutal track conditions.
Just make sure you replace those rotors when you see a lot of cracks that start at the drill holes, and especially if you see cracks connecting drill holes. Cracks throughout the rotor that aren't connected to holes are normal though.
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      07-26-2014, 09:50 AM   #17
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Longboarder - I can show you what brutal treatment does to drilled rotors. My GT3 is full of crack all starting at the holes. Those OEM rotors are coming off for slotted Girodisc. Unless you have something like cup car rotors, slotted is the way to go.
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      07-27-2014, 01:34 PM   #18
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If I had to do it again, I'd get an ST40 kit front and rear. There's no real advantage with the ST60s, just disadvantages to include more expensive and harder to find pads. Although the ST60 pads are slightly larger they are 2mm thinner than the ST40 pads. You can always find track pads for an ST40. Might take some grinding and sanding...but you'll find pads that work.

If you have ST40s on both axles, you can rotate pads. Move the thin pads to the rear and keep fresh ones up front.

The pad changes are quick on the ST40s. I can do all 4 corners (remove tires, swap pads, install tires) in less than 10 minutes in a pinch with a Lisle pad spreader and a good battery impact.

You may get some pad knockback if you drive over curbs with the suspension loaded up. I think the results are mixed but I've gotten knockback a couple of times when the pads were about 3mm.

The AP Racing kit is probably an upgrade in performance and cost. I think that AP kit uses the same pads at the ST60 caliper.

For me, the ST40s are all the brakes I've needed.
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      07-27-2014, 02:30 PM   #19
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thread jack! what is the real advantage of running BBKs?

I've been running track pads and from what I experienced is no different from people with bbks say: no fade, consistency, and better ABS communication.

The advantages of BBKs from what I see are:
1. Swap pads front and back ( if you get same size bbks)
2. Possibly slightly longer pad life due to the larger contact area with the larger more heat absorbent rotors.
3. Easier pad and rotor change, and easier fluid flush because the nipple is on the outside.
4. lighter in some cases

cons:
1. higher entry cost, $4000 atleast
2. less pad selection
3. more expensive pads
4. heavier in some cases
5. colder climates will require more brake rebuilds.
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      07-27-2014, 02:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunman
thread jack! what is the real advantage of running BBKs?

I've been running track pads and from what I experienced is no different from people with bbks say: no fade, consistency, and better ABS communication.

The advantages of BBKs from what I see are:
1. Swap pads front and back ( if you get same size bbks)
2. Possibly slightly longer pad life due to the larger contact area with the larger more heat absorbent rotors.
3. Easier pad and rotor change, and easier fluid flush because the nipple is on the outside.
4. lighter in some cases

cons:
1. higher entry cost, $4000 atleast
2. less pad selection
3. more expensive pads
4. heavier in some cases
5. colder climates will require more brake rebuilds.
I'm not sure I'd agree with this breakdown. Why is the colder climate drawback unique to BBKs? For pad choices, sure BBKs aren't OEM, but a given BBK is often adapted to several car models (particularly StopTech) and some different BBKs use common pad shapes, so pad vendors can produce one pad shape to serve people running a given BBK (or multiple BBKs) in multiple cars. For pad cost, yes BBK pads cost more, but having a larger pad often means they last longer (more pad material volume), so the per-mile/event cost difference probably isn't much -- in fact it may even favor the BBK. Lastly, looking at your list of pros, the easier fluid flush isn't actually a pro for BBKs since fixed caliper designs have bleed screws on BOTH sides.

In terms of points you didn't add, BBKs usually offer better pedal feel and modulation compared to stock setups, particularly in the case of the E9x M3 where the stock setup uses a sliding caliper and rubber lines, whereas BBKs use fixed calipers and stainless steel lines. A sliding caliper also often causes your inside pad to wear MUCH faster than the outside, FYI. BBK rotors also dissipate heat better than a given stock setup thanks to a larger swept area and better overall design, which increases fade resistance. Additionally, having a 2-piece floating design and going slotted rather than drilled like OEM means they're less likely to require early replacement due to warping or cracking, which combined with the ability to replace just the ring rather than the entire assembly like OEM can also decrease your running costs over time -- perhaps not enough to recover the upfront cost of the BBK, but nobody is arguing that BBKs are purely a cost-saving measure.

But if you're happy with the performance of your stock brakes with race pads, then by all means avoid a BBK. I only upgraded because I found fade to be an issue out here in Texas summers and with brake-intensive tracks like CotA, plus I wanted the easy pad swaps. I also kept my cost of entry lower by only upgrading the front axle, so I only spent $2700 before installation. An ST-40 would have been even less.
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      07-27-2014, 04:14 PM   #21
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Haven't really looked at other BBKs but your long term running costs are lower with a ST BBK. Not saying you'll quickly recoup the $5k up front investment but your chances of having a weekend end early because you ran out of brakes is much lower. You're not tossing pads with 5mm of pad left...you're using them with a BBK in some cases. Count those people up that leave early every weekend. If anything, you're not managing brakes all weekend...you're driving and then relaxing.

In the E9X M3, a BBK is a massive handling upgrade. As jphughan said, the pedal feel is vastly improved unless you enjoy the grabbiness of the OEM brakes.

I think track pads, SS lines and good fluid is a good option. But all of this brake ducts, PFC DD rotors, brass guide pins, etc...that is, IMO, throwing money at what is clearly an inadequate system to begin with. I think ducts will help a lot but those have proven to not be reliable on a dual purpose car in general. While I am sure some people make it work but I have seen too many cases where it becomes another frequent maintenance item. That stuff will help but you'll run into a situation where if you beat the brakes down enough...they'll lose their performance. So if you spend $1500-$2000 on band aids...just spend the money to get the BBK.

After all...its not my money!
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