BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion
 
PYSPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-09-2006, 08:08 AM   #155
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
As one of you pointed out -- no, there is no free healthcare anywhere in the world. However, the money that you give to the Gov't is invested in you -- roads, Medical, schools... The money you give to our Gov't goes into the war. Would I refuse paying taxes if I could -- OF COURSE because the truth is slowly coming out. Would I want to pay extra 10% if I knew my kids are going to have "free" education and healthcare -- IN A HEARTBEAT!

Finally, I lived in this country for 15 years and paid the taxes from the day I moved in. I was unemployed for 3 months, and received $600 check monthly to support two kids (1 & 4) and a non-working wife. I pay about $10k just in federal taxes every year and about the same amout in so-called Medicare stuff. All I got back when I needed is $600/month, and that was taxed (that is the MAX anyone can get). What a SHAME of a SYSTEM!!! Plus, they sent me this great offer for Cobra that would be affordable $1400/month for my family?!@#$$ Yet, I see that scum spending billions every day to fight some rats in the country he can't even pronounce its name!

I'm out of this one, I give you what I saw from my experience you preach what you read somewhere... Enjoy it...
First point, I do not give the government any money. The government takes it.

Point number two, the federal government currently spends about $265B a year on Medicare and that basically covers those over the age of 65. Do you mean to tell me that to cover the other 80%+ of us it would only cost us 10% more? You are delusional. Instead of the gov't taking 10% more of your income, why don't you just save it, invest it, and let it grow into something that you or your children can use as you see fit, rather than allowing a faceless bureaucrat to decide for you.

Now let me tell you about my experience with government provided medical care. I am a disabled veteran. My disability is the direct result of a medical procedure done in the old, cost effective manner. Then as part of my treatment, I was temporarily paralyzed from the neck down and close to death because the doctor did not have the equipment that civilian doctors had had for at least 5 years and he "missed" as he was sticking the needle into my spine. Thankfully, when I got out of the service, my wife had insurance that covered having a civilian doctor mitigate the damage with 21st century medical technology. Government run medicine... you can keep it. It is beyond me why you would want your medicine provided by the same folks who run the DMV.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-09-2006, 09:55 AM   #156
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
First point, I do not give the government any money. The government takes it.

Point number two, the federal government currently spends about $265B a year on Medicare and that basically covers those over the age of 65. Do you mean to tell me that to cover the other 80%+ of us it would only cost us 10% more? You are delusional. Instead of the gov't taking 10% more of your income, why don't you just save it, invest it, and let it grow into something that you or your children can use as you see fit, rather than allowing a faceless bureaucrat to decide for you.

Now let me tell you about my experience with government provided medical care. I am a disabled veteran. My disability is the direct result of a medical procedure done in the old, cost effective manner. Then as part of my treatment, I was temporarily paralyzed from the neck down and close to death because the doctor did not have the equipment that civilian doctors had had for at least 5 years and he "missed" as he was sticking the needle into my spine. Thankfully, when I got out of the service, my wife had insurance that covered having a civilian doctor mitigate the damage with 21st century medical technology. Government run medicine... you can keep it. It is beyond me why you would want your medicine provided by the same folks who run the DMV.
First, sorry to hear about your experience!
Next, just by saying disabled Military Vet, you put yourself in a completely different bucket from the rest of us.

Yes, I am taking extra on the side for my kids, I purchased them those 529 College plans, etc...

Anyway, looks like we're toning this down a little bit

So, what happened with the N Korea in your mind? They claimed having the WMD, they showe they do have it now, they kicked out the inspectors, they openly clame to hate us, they are a Communist (oppressive Gov't), their people suffer, they are DEFINITELY threat to us and our allies, and I can go on and on. How come Bush chose Iraq over them? Is it too late now? Do we just sit and wait (I mean sanctions will never work since they directly border with Russia/China)? Do you still think that Iraq was more important and bigger threat than the N Korea? What is the wait with Iran? We want them to test the nuke next month?

What I'm trying to say is that it seems logical to me that Iraq would have been at least third on my list of threats, yet, we're there now with no way out. Did Bush rush into this war? Did he lie to us to drag us into this war? Is Clintons screwing with the Intern really more grounds for impeachment than this??? Did Bush selfishly use the 9-11 stuff to do all this? Did we creat the 9-11 to allow us to do all this...

These are all questions that bother me... I don't care about some senator hitting on little boys... THat should not sink the shp. However, the Rowe events, Abramov events that we don't hear about any more... are very troublesome! I like to hear the other side thinking...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-09-2006, 12:47 PM   #157
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
So, what happened with the N Korea in your mind? They claimed having the WMD, they showe they do have it now, they kicked out the inspectors, they openly clame to hate us, they are a Communist (oppressive Gov't), their people suffer, they are DEFINITELY threat to us and our allies, and I can go on and on. How come Bush chose Iraq over them? Is it too late now? Do we just sit and wait (I mean sanctions will never work since they directly border with Russia/China)? Do you still think that Iraq was more important and bigger threat than the N Korea? What is the wait with Iran? We want them to test the nuke next month?

What I'm trying to say is that it seems logical to me that Iraq would have been at least third on my list of threats, yet, we're there now with no way out. Did Bush rush into this war? Did he lie to us to drag us into this war? Is Clintons screwing with the Intern really more grounds for impeachment than this??? Did Bush selfishly use the 9-11 stuff to do all this? Did we creat the 9-11 to allow us to do all this...
Why the President decided to act in Iraq and not in either Iran or North Korea is a very good question. I do not have any unique insight into the policy machinations inside the White House but if I had to guess... I would say that there were two related reasons why Iraq was the first target among the Axis of Evil. First, and this is ironic given what the President's critics have accused him of, he believed we needed some sort of "international consensus" to act and with Iraq he already had 12 years worth of UN resolutions condemning the Iraqi regime, imposing very harsh sanctions, and yes, an authorization to use force. Nothing approaching that history of international action existed (exists) concerning Iran or North Korea.

The second reason is is related to the first in that if we were to attain any level of internation sanction for acting against Iran or North Korea, we would have to allow the "international community" the opportunity to deal with these threats first. The President committed us to the Six Party talks for Korea and has followed the EU lead with Iran. (I would argue that both of these multilateral approaches have failed and that they were destined to but no one from the White House called to ask me.) Of course it is unlikely that either Iran or North Korea would have been too concerned with offending the "international community" if that community had allowed Iraq to thumb its nose at it for 12+ years with no repercussions.

So to answer your questions:
We were not rushed into war by any means, 12 years is a long time.

No, the President did not lie about anything to get us into this war.

President Clinton was not impeached for screwing with the intern, he was impeached for lying under oath to a federal judge and having others lie for him.

No, the President did not use 9-11 for any selfish ends.

No, we did not create 9-11 and if you really believe that, you are off your rocker and should seek medical help.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-09-2006, 02:27 PM   #158
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil

So to answer your questions:
We were not rushed into war by any means, 12 years is a long time.

No, the President did not lie about anything to get us into this war.

President Clinton was not impeached for screwing with the intern, he was impeached for lying under oath to a federal judge and having others lie for him.

No, the President did not use 9-11 for any selfish ends.

No, we did not create 9-11 and if you really believe that, you are off your rocker and should seek medical help.

Good deal, I like it...here's more:

1) For 12 years we pushed Iraq on??? and then finaly went in and??? found what??? that was the threat to us??? For 40 years we do the same to Cuba for what??? We tried the same to Russia, succeded somehow, but they are too big. We were late for the games with China...

2) The president CLEARLY stated that the MAIN reason for going over there was the WMD, the end. Yes, there may have been the other things, but the main was the WMD. Now, he's telling us that it is not his problem he had the wrong intel. Is that it??? We all buy that crap??? I don't.

3) The 9-11. As I pointed out before, I do not believe the conspiracy theories much and try to avoid reading/watching them. However, here are a few somple q's for you that triggered my conspiracy concerns over the weekend:
i) The first photo of pentagon "hole" when the 757 hit it shows 16 ft. diameter hole, but the 757 is more than 120 feet wide and 40 ft tall? No skid marks on the ground. I did take numerous Physics classes and that does not add up
ii) THe WTC -- simplest one -- the melting point of any steel is higher than the burning temp of kerosine. SImple as that. The steel in the WTC was special kind with the melting temp increased by almost 200C. Now, the science cannot add up here that the steel melted and crashed the building.
iii) Back to Pentagon -- the burned bodies were taken out of the buildings above mentioned hole right after they put out the fire, but no piece of titanium components were ever found from the 757?
iv) WTC planes black boxes of course never were found, but the passport of a "highjacker" was found in the rubbles...

And so on. Again, not that I am alluding anything, but some science should be involved in all this, not just the video clips and pictures. You accept what you see and hear, I like to question it all. You accept that the Serbs killed this many Bosnians and Albanians and..., I was there and have seen some of it. And that is why I question it.
You see on the TV that the N Korean dwarf is a bad boy and..., I say he just does not want to end up like Hussein. He did not learn that 12 years of isolation would do nothing for you, he learned that if you show your teeth to the USA, they will back off...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-09-2006, 03:13 PM   #159
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
1) For 12 years we pushed Iraq on??? and then finaly went in and??? found what??? that was the threat to us??? For 40 years we do the same to Cuba for what??? We tried the same to Russia, succeded somehow, but they are too big. We were late for the games with China...
For 12 years we pushed Iraq to fulfill its obligations under the ceasefire agreement it made after its forces were removed from Kuwait. You continually attempt to separate the 2003 military action from the 1991 action but they are intrinsically connected. Just as you cannot understand the Second World War without an appreciation for the First World War and the Treaty of Versailles, you cannot remove the 2003 invasion of Iraq from the context of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

Quote:
2) The president CLEARLY stated that the MAIN reason for going over there was the WMD, the end. Yes, there may have been the other things, but the main was the WMD. Now, he's telling us that it is not his problem he had the wrong intel. Is that it??? We all buy that crap??? I don't.
Again, the President was NOT the only one making the case that Saddam had stockpiles of chemical weapons and a bio-weapons program. President Clinton believed it in 1998 (as well as in 2003) when he launched airstrikes on Iraq. The UN Security Council believed it when it unanimously passed UNSCR 1441. I asked you previously to present a single credible person or organization that was saying prior to the invasion that Iraq did not have chem or bio weapons, do you have one?

As for your 9-11 nonsense, all those claims were completely debunked by numerous experts. That leader of the vast, right wing conspiracy, Popular Mechanics has all the facts here.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-09-2006, 03:29 PM   #160
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
For 12 years we pushed Iraq to fulfill its obligations under the ceasefire agreement it made after its forces were removed from Kuwait. You continually attempt to separate the 2003 military action from the 1991 action but they are intrinsically connected. Just as you cannot understand the Second World War without an appreciation for the First World War and the Treaty of Versailles, you cannot remove the 2003 invasion of Iraq from the context of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.



Again, the President was NOT the only one making the case that Saddam had stockpiles of chemical weapons and a bio-weapons program. President Clinton believed it in 1998 (as well as in 2003) when he launched airstrikes on Iraq. The UN Security Council believed it when it unanimously passed UNSCR 1441. I asked you previously to present a single credible person or organization that was saying prior to the invasion that Iraq did not have chem or bio weapons, do you have one?

As for your 9-11 nonsense, all those claims were completely debunked by numerous experts. That leader of the vast, right wing conspiracy, Popular Mechanics has all the facts here.
Thanks for the link, as I stated before, I do not believe in the thories, HOWEVER, all of the "Facts" to the important things were supported by the Gov't employees...I don't buy that side either...
Clearly showing a small hole in the Pentagon wall...then it "quickly" collapsed, no more evidence...
Nonsence, could be. Same as the nonsence that Saddam has ever or would have ever done anything bad to us. But you just don't care about those facts I guess... The "expert" Michael Moore has debunked those too...if you want to look at it that way...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-09-2006, 04:23 PM   #161
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Yeah, I guess you are right. Why didn't I see it before? I guess it is unreasonable to assume that when an airliner hits a building, the hole it makes will collapse. It is much more sensible to believe that the rogue elements in the US government made 4 commercial airliners, their passengers and crew disappear while finding four pilots willing to crash USAF planes (or fire missiles??) into buildings so that ...? Haliburton can build a gas pipeline through Afghanistan? Bush can reward his Texas oil buddies by putting Iraqi oil back on the world market?

Occam's Razor, Occam's Razor!!
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-02-2006, 12:22 AM   #162
kapoo
Lieutenant
 
kapoo's Avatar
 
Drives: WRX STi
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kuwait

Posts: 590
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 Subaru WRX STi  [0.00]
2009 Scion tc  [0.00]
2007 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via MSN to kapoo
I haven't read through this post, but if this is a re-post.. All i have to say is the war thats going on in Iraq, is gonna affect kuwait.. So basically the middle east is going downhill...
__________________
Previous Ride-2007 BMW 335i Coupe (PROcede)
Previous Ride-2007 Grey Chevrolet TrailBlazer (HP Tuner)
Previous Ride- 2009 Metallic Grey Subaru WRX STi
Current Ride- 2012 Yamaha YZF-R6
kapoo is offline   Kuwait
0
Reply With Quote
      11-02-2006, 09:15 PM   #163
Driv3r
Colonel
 
Driv3r's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 E46 M3 ZCP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Miami Beach, FL

Posts: 2,358
iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2006 325i  [0.00]
Everysingle American Should Google "american Media Censorship" And Finally See Some Truth In This Debacle!
__________________
2006 E46 M3 ZCP 6SPD-Interlagos Blue - 6SPD - SSK - AA Headers -AA Tune - Navigation w/ Splashscreen Mod - 3M Crystalline Series 60 - Carbon Splitters - Swissvax Treated - Bridgestone
2012 Yamaha FZ8 - Matte Black/Grey - Michelin Pilot Pure 2CT - Vortex Rear Sets - Yoshimura R-77D & Fender Delete - Spectro Race Oil - GP Reverse Shifting
Driv3r is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-03-2006, 10:48 AM   #164
NFS
Major General
 
NFS's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i m-sport LCI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK

Posts: 9,214
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
ii) THe WTC -- simplest one -- the melting point of any steel is higher than the burning temp of kerosine. SImple as that. The steel in the WTC was special kind with the melting temp increased by almost 200C. Now, the science cannot add up here that the steel melted and crashed the building.

Any reasonably sensible structural engineer could explain this to you.

The impacts themselves damaged large areas of the structure, but buildings are generally designed with a degree of redundancy.

This is to avoid something called progressive collapse. The most famous 'progressive collapse' was at Ronan Point in the UK:

http://www.lalamy.demon.co.uk/ronanpnt.htm

This is the domino effect - at Ronan Point a small gas explosion damaged the structure, which caused all related parts of the structure to also fail.

Unfortunately, the WTC was not just structurally damaged - it was exposed to an incredibly severe fire. Kerosene might burn at lowish temperatures, but in building fires the temperature effects are cumulative. All steel buildings are at risk from fire and a fire fed by jet fuel will reach temperatures of maybe 1500 degrees.

This is not warm enough to melt steel, but steel behaves elastically in fire. Steel structures loose strength at temperatures much lower than melting point. At 1500 degrees the steel would have lost about half it's strength.

Sadly, this reduction in strength ultimately meant the steel could no longer support the required load. This was first felt in the areas where the impact had already stripped out some of the redundancy. Ultimately the structure began to fail and this failure ended in a progressive collapse.

One thing I read which I think explains why the progressive collapse occured so quickly relates to the method of fire protection to the steel structure. This was a 'loose' system, rather than an intumescent coating. Some engineers believe that a large amount of the fire protection material was dislodged in the initial impact leaving the steel in the fire 'zone' only partially protected.

Either way - as conspiracy theories go - this one is pretty easily discredited.
__________________
NFS is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-09-2006, 08:35 PM   #165
Desert Bimmer
Sand lover!
 
Desert Bimmer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006--E90, Graphite
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tucson, Arizona (USA)

Posts: 149
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 325i  [0.00]
All very intelligent responses...

And my response is simply:

Quaere verum (latin)
__________________
'06 E90, SG, Premium/Sport, Steptronic, xenons, black leather w/burl trim, Sirius.
Desert Bimmer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2006, 04:21 PM   #166
SteveMD
Colonel
 
SteveMD's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 X5 50i, '11 GTI DSG
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Raventown!

Posts: 2,386
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2012 X5 50i  [0.00]
All these 9/11 conspiracy theories are amazing to me. There was one conspiracy - that of 19 Arabs who decided to hijack 4 planes.

A few years ago I was involved in the controlled demo of some buildings here in Baltimore - about 18 stories, 5 or 6 buildings, old high rises. I was working for an engineering consulting firm who performed a site utility survey a couple of months prior to the big day.

As a benefit, we got to see how controlled demo is done. Without boring everyone, I fail to see how the twin towers could have been rigged for a controlled demo while they were occupied by 40000 people. What I saw in Baltimore was lots of wires taped to beams and running down corridors, lots of junction boxes, lots of holes drilled in columns, lots of explosives.

And why demo WTC 7 which the conspiracists will tell you was a 'Classic Controlled Demolition'? I mean bringing WTC 1 and 2 down wasn't enough lol.

Here's another - all the jewish people in 1 and 2 were told not to show up that morning. So we will assume then that there are 500-1000 people of jewish faith - maybe more who 'know the secret'. And yet none as in nobody, zip zilch, nada have gone to any media outlet where, for sure they would be paid a small fortune for this info. And none of them are Democrats who hate Bush and would surely aid in his demise if this info was brought forth.

You conspiracy believers need to be dispatched to the loony bin PDQ or at least don your tinfoil hats and resume the search for the black helicopters.
__________________
2006 E90 330i (retired)
2009 E90 335i (retired)
2012 E70 X5 50i M Sport, JB Stage 1, 4.6 secs 0-60.
2011 VW GTI/DSG

Last edited by SteveMD; 12-05-2006 at 11:24 PM.
SteveMD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-01-2007, 05:16 PM   #167
RIP-A4
estudioG design+interiors
 
Drives: 2007 335i coupe
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: whittier, CA

Posts: 403
iTrader: (0)

We should just pull a modern day trojan horse
RIP-A4 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:42 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST