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      07-06-2014, 03:10 AM   #221
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yep, changed those. that was the first thing i did btw.

i have actually mailed mose (the poster of that post).

he said the noise i am describing / video taped is NOT the noise he was talking about in that post.

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Originally Posted by psu.m3 View Post
After I reading this i thought this noise issue was easy fix, but i'm really confused now...
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      07-06-2014, 06:52 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anom3 View Post
fired up the car after it sat for 16 hours this morning...

noise was there. maybe a bit quieter but it was still there.

fuck :/

0w40 is not the solution.
"VANOS GEARS !"
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      07-06-2014, 08:54 AM   #223
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I'm hearing the same noise from my car about 50%of the time

but the noise is lot less apparent after i made the switch to 0w40

have you thought about maybe noise is coming from second chain

linked to the oil pump? upper chain guide is held by tensioner, idk

if tension is created by oil pressure or just spring by it self.

its just a theory but i think its worth checkin before going into

vanos gears.
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      07-06-2014, 01:49 PM   #224
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worth checking out.

i will look into all of this once i return from vacation, leaving in 2 days.

so all of this has to take a pause. during that time dont take my absence from the topic as a sign that i have given up

i'll be back at it sometime near the end of july. simply not much i can do while on vacation

Quote:
Originally Posted by psu.m3 View Post
I'm hearing the same noise from my car about 50%of the time

but the noise is lot less apparent after i made the switch to 0w40

have you thought about maybe noise is coming from second chain

linked to the oil pump? upper chain guide is held by tensioner, idk

if tension is created by oil pressure or just spring by it self.

its just a theory but i think its worth checkin before going into

vanos gears.
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      07-19-2014, 08:25 PM   #225
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Metallic knock.

M3PO has provided the solution.

My car is experiencing the same thing.
My post.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1012547

It's still under original warranty.. So I'm taking it in about 1.5 weeks so that it can be documented (if they refuse.) and/or repair.
This is preventive measure.....just like preventive medicine. A clog artery may function fine....but overtime function will decrease....eventually....leading to complete obstruction and failure (heart attack).....or in this case....a BLOWN engine.. lol


PLan to to provide M3PO invoice...... I may even take it to Irvine BMW.
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      07-19-2014, 09:02 PM   #226
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please let everyone know how it goes.

i am currently on vacation, although peeking in here every few days to see if anything new develops on this subject.

once i return home im going to have the vanos done, but would REALLY like to see 2 people use the same solution before i jump in on a multi-$$$$ repair.

thanks for the notify!

Quote:
Originally Posted by usctrojansdent View Post
M3PO has provided the solution.

My car is experiencing the same thing.
My post.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1012547

It's still under original warranty.. So I'm taking it in about 1.5 weeks so that it can be documented (if they refuse.) and/or repair.
This is preventive measure.....just like preventive medicine. A clog artery may function fine....but overtime function will decrease....eventually....leading to complete obstruction and failure (heart attack).....or in this case....a BLOWN engine.. lol


PLan to to provide M3PO invoice...... I may even take it to Irvine BMW.
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      07-19-2014, 11:22 PM   #227
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i'm tired of hearing this clank noise and planning to replace the vanos gears

but how do you know which one is bad vanos gear out of 4

should i just replace all 4 of them at once?
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      07-20-2014, 11:56 AM   #228
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I could have sworn that I heard my car make the valve clack noise the other day, but I just did a recording (with a good quality 25mm diaphragm condenser mic) and didn't hear it at all. I figured I'd provide the recording for you guys, so you have a point of reference (a baseline, really) for an M3 startup without the sound. Just in case anyone tries to tell you "it's perfectly normal".

The MP3 file is compressed at 192 kbps fixed bitrate, but I only have the (pretty crappy) LAME MP3 encoder, so I provided uncompressed formats if someone needs to do in-depth analysis. The WAV file should play on just about anything. The FLAC file is a "lossless" compressed format.

2013 M3 Startup MP3 format (433 KB)

2013 M3 Startup WAV format (1.6 MB)

2013 M3 Startup FLAC format (1.2 MB)
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      07-20-2014, 12:57 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I could have sworn that I heard my car make the valve clack noise the other day, but I just did a recording (with a good quality 25mm diaphragm condenser mic) and didn't hear it at all. I figured I'd provide the recording for you guys, so you have a point of reference (a baseline, really) for an M3 startup without the sound. Just in case anyone tries to tell you "it's perfectly normal".

The MP3 file is compressed at 192 kbps fixed bitrate, but I only have the (pretty crappy) LAME MP3 encoder, so I provided uncompressed formats if someone needs to do in-depth analysis. The WAV file should play on just about anything. The FLAC file is a "lossless" compressed format.

2013 M3 Startup MP3 format (433 KB)

2013 M3 Startup WAV format (1.6 MB)

2013 M3 Startup FLAC format (1.2 MB)
Like you said,in your sound recording (startup format) is "no" clunk noise ! Sounds perfect like it should be !
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      07-20-2014, 03:44 PM   #230
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hi bradley.

thank you kindly. im sure this will help those going to warranty with this issue.

how many km on your motor btw? production year?

id like to see the response from those who say this noise is normal after listening to your recording and mine / all the others side by side

clearly there is something on motors that exhibit this noise that is maladjusted / misshaped / broken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I could have sworn that I heard my car make the valve clack noise the other day, but I just did a recording (with a good quality 25mm diaphragm condenser mic) and didn't hear it at all. I figured I'd provide the recording for you guys, so you have a point of reference (a baseline, really) for an M3 startup without the sound. Just in case anyone tries to tell you "it's perfectly normal".

The MP3 file is compressed at 192 kbps fixed bitrate, but I only have the (pretty crappy) LAME MP3 encoder, so I provided uncompressed formats if someone needs to do in-depth analysis. The WAV file should play on just about anything. The FLAC file is a "lossless" compressed format.

2013 M3 Startup MP3 format (433 KB)

2013 M3 Startup WAV format (1.6 MB)

2013 M3 Startup FLAC format (1.2 MB)
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      07-20-2014, 03:58 PM   #231
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Sounds perfect

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I could have sworn that I heard my car make the valve clack noise the other day, but I just did a recording (with a good quality 25mm diaphragm condenser mic) and didn't hear it at all. I figured I'd provide the recording for you guys, so you have a point of reference (a baseline, really) for an M3 startup without the sound. Just in case anyone tries to tell you "it's perfectly normal".

The MP3 file is compressed at 192 kbps fixed bitrate, but I only have the (pretty crappy) LAME MP3 encoder, so I provided uncompressed formats if someone needs to do in-depth analysis. The WAV file should play on just about anything. The FLAC file is a "lossless" compressed format.

2013 M3 Startup MP3 format (433 KB)




2013 M3 Startup WAV format (1.6 MB)

2013 M3 Startup FLAC format (1.2 MB)



Sounds normal.
Look at my post. You can hear the clunk sound perfectly.
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      07-20-2014, 04:00 PM   #232
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thats the thousand dollar question

i have to be honest, to this date, i have no idea which side its coming.

i bought 2 stethoscopes so i could left ear = passenger side vanos, right ear = drivers side vanos the startup sequence but got in an argument with my gf both nights i had everything ready (remember, gotta wait 6+ hours at least to hear the noise etc etc etc) so i have yet to do this.

the one time i had my head under the hood, with the intake manifold removed, the noise sounded like it was coming from the drivers side valve area. although, there were so many noises at once, i would take that with a serious grain of salt.

if you (or anyone else for that matter) get this done via warranty or on their own, let me know the procedure they used to diagnose what side it was coming from

Quote:
Originally Posted by psu.m3 View Post
i'm tired of hearing this clank noise and planning to replace the vanos gears

but how do you know which one is bad vanos gear out of 4

should i just replace all 4 of them at once?
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      07-20-2014, 04:39 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anom3 View Post
thats the thousand dollar question

i have to be honest, to this date, i have no idea which side its coming.

i bought 2 stethoscopes so i could left ear = passenger side vanos, right ear = drivers side vanos the startup sequence but got in an argument with my gf both nights i had everything ready (remember, gotta wait 6+ hours at least to hear the noise etc etc etc) so i have yet to do this.

the one time i had my head under the hood, with the intake manifold removed, the noise sounded like it was coming from the drivers side valve area. although, there were so many noises at once, i would take that with a serious grain of salt.

if you (or anyone else for that matter) get this done via warranty or on their own, let me know the procedure they used to diagnose what side it was coming from
It's the "Right side Bank 1-4 Vanos Gears !"
Copy of M3PO....
Hope this will help .
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      07-20-2014, 05:37 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anom3 View Post
hi bradley.

thank you kindly. im sure this will help those going to warranty with this issue.

how many km on your motor btw? production year?

id like to see the response from those who say this noise is normal after listening to your recording and mine / all the others side by side

clearly there is something on motors that exhibit this noise that is maladjusted / misshaped / broken.
Odometer: 24,197 miles (38,941 km)
Last 7 of VIN: J593425
Model year: 2013
Production date: 28.09.2012

All oil changes performed at the dealer, so it's running whatever they'd put in it.
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      07-20-2014, 05:39 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usctrojansdent View Post
Sounds normal.
Look at my post. You can hear the clunk sound perfectly.
Yeah, I know I thought I heard my car make the sound, so I grabbed my condenser mic and laptop, then headed out to the garage. I had someone else start the car and clearly it didn't make the noise. I figured the recording still had value as a "baseline".

Basically, if anyone tries to tell you that the clunk sounds normal, they're full of it, and this audio is the proof.
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      07-20-2014, 09:21 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I could have sworn that I heard my car make the valve clack noise the other day, but I just did a recording (with a good quality 25mm diaphragm condenser mic) and didn't hear it at all. I figured I'd provide the recording for you guys, so you have a point of reference (a baseline, really) for an M3 startup without the sound. Just in case anyone tries to tell you "it's perfectly normal".

The MP3 file is compressed at 192 kbps fixed bitrate, but I only have the (pretty crappy) LAME MP3 encoder, so I provided uncompressed formats if someone needs to do in-depth analysis. The WAV file should play on just about anything. The FLAC file is a "lossless" compressed format.

2013 M3 Startup MP3 format (433 KB)

2013 M3 Startup WAV format (1.6 MB)

2013 M3 Startup FLAC format (1.2 MB)
Thing is, you may very well have heard it. It's intermittent for many, including me with both of my E90s. Absolutely does not happen on 100% of starts. OP in this thread has had numerous perfect cold starts while in the process of trying to resolve the issue. Next time yours sits for a chunk of time, take a close listen again.

Based upon all of the forum discussion on this topic, and all who have chimed in to say they've experienced, it can be reasonably concluded that it's not outside of the norm to have the noise. "Normal" as in what M expected? Can't say. Both of my E90s (separated by 2 model years and 25k miles) have it. If it was truly a rare issue, the chances of that I'd acquire 2 of the uniquely afflicted are slim to none. Others have also had two E9Xs with the issue.

Also can be reasonably concluded based upon the available data that it is not indicative of a near term or long term serious (or even minor) engine issue.

All of that said, I certainly hope we get confirmation on the Vanos cause. If so, what characteristics of the used Vanos are creating the noise, and are they in some way compromised?

Considering this occurs on cold starts, and most commonly after the vehicle sits for a while, I have a suspicion this is much to do about a lubrication issue...
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      07-21-2014, 08:04 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Thing is, you may very well have heard it. It's intermittent for many, including me with both of my E90s. Absolutely does not happen on 100% of starts. OP in this thread has had numerous perfect cold starts while in the process of trying to resolve the issue. Next time yours sits for a chunk of time, take a close listen again.

Based upon all of the forum discussion on this topic, and all who have chimed in to say they've experienced, it can be reasonably concluded that it's not outside of the norm to have the noise. "Normal" as in what M expected? Can't say. Both of my E90s (separated by 2 model years and 25k miles) have it. If it was truly a rare issue, the chances of that I'd acquire 2 of the uniquely afflicted are slim to none. Others have also had two E9Xs with the issue.

Also can be reasonably concluded based upon the available data that it is not indicative of a near term or long term serious (or even minor) engine issue.

All of that said, I certainly hope we get confirmation on the Vanos cause. If so, what characteristics of the used Vanos are creating the noise, and are they in some way compromised?

Considering this occurs on cold starts, and most commonly after the vehicle sits for a while, I have a suspicion this is much to do about a lubrication issue...
What's even stranger is the fact that M3PO's Vanos Gears Bank 1-4 was replaced and fixed the problem,so the clunck noise was history !
Ok good to know...But now,and i've said it before...
So pulling the Vanos Gears Bank 1-4 out ,and put the same of the factory Vanos Gears back in ,and this is the fix with the same Vanos Gears of the factory ?
It's almost like pulling a problem out and put the same problem back in ?!?!
Something is just not right ...and personal i'm thinking it's more like backlash of the Vanos Gears and creates the clunck noise during the start up !
And it's just that i don't get ???
Same thing is with the brake procedure for DCT's each time when i'm doing this i've no clunck noise ? And maybe it's a sign that the Vanos Gears have the necessary time to tension (during the 30 sec.brake procedure) and so there is no clunck noise ?
Not sure about this and so maybe i'm wrong.....but it seems that way !
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      07-21-2014, 09:09 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Same thing is with the brake procedure for DCT's each time when i'm doing this i've no clunck noise ? And maybe it's a sign that the Vanos Gears have the necessary time to tension (during the 30 sec.brake procedure) and so there is no clunck noise ?
Not sure about this and so maybe i'm wrong.....but it seems that way !
Vanos operates on oil pressure, no? If it's Vanos related, then the brake procedure can't possibly have any actual effect on Vanos. The only engine related change caused by depressing the brake pedal is vacuum related. When you press the brake pedal, you open the check valve on the brake booster, which (during normal operation) uses vacuum from the intake. When the engine is off, this vacuum isn't even present. There may be, however, some residual vacuum in the system (because it is maintained by a series of check valves. Likewise with oil pressure. There's no way that Vanos is tensioning while holding the brake pedal with the engine off, because there is no oil pressure to actuate the system.

Does anyone know if Vanos relies on the vacuum system at all?
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      07-21-2014, 10:51 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
Vanos operates on oil pressure, no? If it's Vanos related, then the brake procedure can't possibly have any actual effect on Vanos. The only engine related change caused by depressing the brake pedal is vacuum related. When you press the brake pedal, you open the check valve on the brake booster, which (during normal operation) uses vacuum from the intake. When the engine is off, this vacuum isn't even present. There may be, however, some residual vacuum in the system (because it is maintained by a series of check valves. Likewise with oil pressure. There's no way that Vanos is tensioning while holding the brake pedal with the engine off, because there is no oil pressure to actuate the system.

Does anyone know if Vanos relies on the vacuum system at all?
I said....so i repait, that "during" the brake procedure (about 30 secondes) it gives maybe the necessary time to tension the Vanos Gears .
Note ; i've done this only with the keyfob in !
That being said i'll will try to start the car ,but first i'll wait 30 secondes to pusch the start button without the brake procedure, only then we should know that brake procedure is involved or not .
I've had the clunck noise for time period of 2 years and now i've start with the brake procedure it's gone.... ,i've don't heard it anymore ?!?!
I'm continue to dig about this mystery....
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      07-21-2014, 01:00 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I said....so i repait, that "during" the brake procedure (about 30 secondes) it gives maybe the necessary time to tension the Vanos Gears .
Note ; i've done this only with the keyfob in !
That being said i'll will try to start the car ,but first i'll wait 30 secondes to pusch the start button without the brake procedure, only then we should know that brake procedure is involved or not .
I've had the clunck noise for time period of 2 years and now i've start with the brake procedure it's gone.... ,i've don't heard it anymore ?!?!
I'm continue to dig about this mystery....
When the engine is not running there is no oil pressure generated, thus Vanos cannot be affected by anything you do. Likewise, there is no vacuum generated while the engine is not running.

I am not claiming that your brake pedal procedure has no effect on the noise, I'm only claiming that it can have no effect on Vanos. The brakes in your car simply aren't connected to anything that affects Vanos. The caveat being vacuum systems. Brake actuation absolutely has an effect on vacuum. I just don't know whether Vanos relies on vacuum. Most variable valve technology operates from oil pressure, because vacuum is too weak to reliably actuate the mechanisms.
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      07-21-2014, 03:45 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I said....so i repait, that "during" the brake procedure (about 30 secondes) it gives maybe the necessary time to tension the Vanos Gears .
Note ; i've done this only with the keyfob in !
That being said i'll will try to start the car ,but first i'll wait 30 secondes to pusch the start button without the brake procedure, only then we should know that brake procedure is involved or not .
I've had the clunck noise for time period of 2 years and now i've start with the brake procedure it's gone.... ,i've don't heard it anymore ?!?!
I'm continue to dig about this mystery....
So I hate to potentially add to the misguidance on this issue, but I have to report that the brake procedure did work for me last week.

My 6MT sits for about 1 week at a time or slightly more right now, so every time I start it it's a prime opportunity for the infamous clunk/grind. And indeed for each of the prior 4-5 weeks I experienced it on the cold start. Tried the brake routine last week and perfect cold start, no clunk. I'll try again this week to verify. I have no idea what the possible interaction is between the brake system and this noise!

Comfort access for me, btw. Key fob not in.
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      07-21-2014, 06:17 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
So I hate to potentially add to the misguidance on this issue, but I have to report that the brake procedure did work for me last week.

My 6MT sits for about 1 week at a time or slightly more right now, so every time I start it it's a prime opportunity for the infamous clunk/grind. And indeed for each of the prior 4-5 weeks I experienced it on the cold start. Tried the brake routine last week and perfect cold start, no clunk. I'll try again this week to verify. I have no idea what the possible interaction is between the brake system and this noise!

Comfort access for me, btw. Key fob not in.
Maybe we should post a new thread with the name...."The mystery of the brake procedure "
BTW...about the "misguidance" of the brake procedure , it was the same here !
But thought...why not... i'll try it !
Thought also that it only works for DCT , but see now your car is 6MT ?
The result you know by now....
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BPM DEV-Tune & DCT software update & Servotronic & coding///Alpine HID Angeleyes///Oem.exhaust mod.

Last edited by ///M Power-Belgium; 07-21-2014 at 06:25 PM.
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