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View Poll Results: Are you staying or leaving?
Going with the F8X M3 or I already have one 76 14.29%
Staying in my E9X M3 456 85.71%
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      06-16-2014, 02:08 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
Hey W///, hope you're doing well, congrats on the E36, it looks mint for a car that age, and the color is f*cking awsome!!

Now to the more serious things , I think you're being a bit unfair to the OP by saying "what did he think was gonna happen!" OP did'nt said(at least in is original post) anything about the size of both cars or the way they handle, he was only speaking about the engines and how he think that the turbo V8 is not fun compared to the S65. I'm sure he did'nt expected the M5 to be as nimble or as fun as the M3 on curvy roads but what he said about the S63 lacking in soul seems legit IMO. From a costumer point of view, you would think that the biggest and badest engine that the M division produce would be at least as fun as the engine found in the older M3 model!

Also, if we're only speaking engine wise(like OP meant too), the F10 M5 is very comparable to the F8x Ms, thus why i think OPs thread and opinions are legitimate! That said, can't wait to see and ear an M3/M4 in flesh to finalize my opinion but till now I'm really not impress, specially after earing that the big weight reduction of the new platform does'nt seem to be a reality!!

Hey Alex! Good to hear from you buddy. Thanks for the compliments, yea the E36 is in really good shape for its age. Are you planning on sticking the E92?

You are right about what the OP said. I must apologize because he did mention the handling but I just interpreted the wrong way. It's just that there has been so many of these threads everywhere, and most of them come from people that have never seen the F80/2.

I think an interesting video is the review Carlos Lagos did with all the M3's at the same time. He mentions that the M3 has evolved every single generation. Look at how far we've come since the E30 days. But the one thing that has remained constant was that every generation has been a benchmark. I certainly hope the F80/2 can still achieve the same goal.

Regardless, when I drove the M6 coupe at the Performance Center, the engine was never a problem for me. It was the size and the weight. I'd also like the point out that the 1M is universally loved by everyone apart from E9x owners, yet it has a run of the mill N55. True, the S65 has so much character that it'll probably never be beaten, but things change guys.

I would absolutely love to get my hands on this
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      06-16-2014, 02:22 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Hey Alex! Good to hear from you buddy. Thanks for the compliments, yea the E36 is in really good shape for its age. Are you planning on sticking the E92?You are right about what the OP said. I must apologize because he did mention the handling but I just interpreted the wrong way. It's just that there has been so many of these threads everywhere, and most of them come from people that have never seen the F80/2.

I think an interesting video is the review Carlos Lagos did with all the M3's at the same time. He mentions that the M3 has evolved every single generation. Look at how far we've come since the E30 days. But the one thing that has remained constant was that every generation has been a benchmark. I certainly hope the F80/2 can still achieve the same goal.

Regardless, when I drove the M6 coupe at the Performance Center, the engine was never a problem for me. It was the size and the weight. I'd also like the point out that the 1M is universally loved by everyone apart from E9x owners, yet it has a run of the mill N55. True, the S65 has so much character that it'll probably never be beaten, but things change guys.

I would absolutely love to get my hands on this
You can bet on that, I'll never separate from it, I realise even more now that I also have a 400hp/400lb-ft Evo X MR(that I like A LOT), that nothing can replace the joy of earing the S65 screaming through my test pipes and MPE, turbo cars will come and go but this M3 is staying forever!

I'd also love to get a new M3/M4 in addition to my E9x but in the climat I live in and with my budget, this would make a lore more sense as a second car to one day replace my Evo :

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      06-16-2014, 02:34 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
You can bet on that, I'll never separate from it, I realise even more now that I also have a 400hp/400lb-ft Evo X MR(that I like A LOT), that nothing can replace the joy of earing the S65 screaming through my test pipes and MPE, turbo cars will come and go but this M3 is staying forever!

I'd also love to get a new M3/M4 in addition to my E9x but in the climat I live in and with my budget, this would make a lore more sense as a second car to one day replace my Evo :

Attachment 1044069

Attachment 1044070
I absolutely agree with the bold part of your statement. Like I said, I never want to ever get rid of my V8, but I'd love to add an F80. I'm probably 10 years away though haha. I figure, might as well make it 3 M3's by that point, and never get anything else
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      06-16-2014, 02:41 PM   #312
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Sold my 08 E92 M3 to get the 2012 C63 AMG. Guess what, I sold it and got myself the 2013 E92 M3. The last group of NA V8 that left the plant last year. There is something about this E9x V8 engine that defies logic. I am not that keen in getting in to the new M4 as compared to when the new E92 came out on 2008.
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      06-16-2014, 03:10 PM   #313
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Sold my 08 E92 M3 to get the 2012 C63 AMG. Guess what, I sold it and got myself the 2013 E92 M3.
Welcome back
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      06-16-2014, 03:30 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
Dave Buchko from the company’s product and technology communications department said “some people thought it would just be a modified version of our regular Twin-Power turbo engine,” but that is not the case.
Right, this from the PR guy. I'm shocked, truly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony View Post
Didn't those bosses at M Division step down? It's obvious with all the M Badge branding and M suv's that the direction M Division is taking with the new bosses is about marketing and profit margin rather than making an enthusiast race car for the street.
Any car successful car company has to focus on profit margin, hence the various cost-cutting measures seen throughout the lifetime of the E92 M3 (minor things like removing seat pockets, plastic sun visors, introducing LED lights :P, etc.). That said, pre-2008 economic turn-down, BMW M division was full of crazy guys pushing the envelope like stuffing a V10 into a production sedan, and overall BMW has shifted from being a boutique luxury brand (at least it was in the U.S.) to trying to sell a car to every demographic in every segment and category they can think of. Not necessarily a bad thing, given their recent financial reports, but the final products are perhaps not quite as exciting as they used to be. But that's why they have such nice lease terms; that's the route I'll go, no point in buying outright what is a disposable car (all turbos are disposable cars, and historically BMW's turbos have been far from the best).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOM3 View Post
Regarding exhaust...time will tell. One thing is for sure...stock for stock upon initial release of both E9X and F8X, E9X sounded way better. I heard F8X in person and it sounded weak on start up. It's foregone conclusion that I will be installing some aftermarket exhaust. Now, let's not talk about fart pipes just yet, I think Evolve released an exhaust for BMW four-bangers which sounded very good relatively speaking.
With the current exhaust on the F80 opening up those valves and essentially becoming a straight pipe, I'm not sure there is much to be gained from an aftermarket exhaust beyond introducing drone or undesirable harmonics.

Anyway, who cares about the exhaust? It's all about dat intake noize! If sound was the only criteria, I'd put the E92's intake at half throttle vs. the whole F80 car at WOT.
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      06-16-2014, 03:37 PM   #315
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RS4 is so nice but that build up is serious and needs to be addressed like every 30k miles. I've seen low low mileaged cars opened up and it looks terrible
a good friend of mine has an RS4 and gripes about the carbon buildup issue constantly - it's a hell of a car though and prices are a downright steal for the B7 these days
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      06-16-2014, 03:53 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
Well in all fairness, cars that perform very good are usually also fun. the m4 is a better car in terms of performance. its faster, it handles better, it has more power etc. So in a lot of those reviews, they are saying a faster lighter car is more fun. which makes sense.

for me the sound was a major part of the excitement, unlike a lot of people. For me the E92 with a full exhuast, raised red line etc. was unreal. It seems like a good replacement would be a Ferrari.they cost a lot though lol

To me fair, i have a problem with most cars coming to the market anyways. i could easily see my next car being turbo charged, because they simply no longer makes the engines i want.
Personally I dont care too much about the S65 exhaust note which is a bit raspy. I prefer the very thick throaty sound of an American V8. But the induction sound of the S65 with its giant intake manifold and individual throttle bodies is the real symphony that is hard to find elsewhere. Maybe a Lexus LFA from the youtube videos I have seen
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      06-16-2014, 04:20 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Honestly, some of the responses make me understand why some people think E9x M3 owners are idiots.

Do not for a second get me wrong. I love my E92 and the V8, but at the same time, I'm very excited to see what the F80/2 can do. Most of the people here have yet to hear or see the car in person, but are already passing judgement. Heck, we haven't even heard what the car will sound like with after market exhausts.

With all due respect to the OP, he went from an E9x to an F10 M5. How is that even comparable to an F80/2? The F10 is a freaken boat! What did you think was going to happen. Going from an E46 to an E39 would be the same thing (yes I've driven both). I took my E36 M3 out to the mountains for the first time and had a coworker with an F10 M5 tag along. He managed to cook his brakes going uphill.

It's so funny how everyone is so quick to point out how the M division has lost their way and now stands for marketing. Yet in 2007, people were saying the same thing about how the V8 was a sellout move because BMW were just copying MB and Audi (which went to the V8 first btw), and how the steering wasn't as good as the E46 and how it was much too heavy. Now people are talking about how the E9x is going to be a collectible car? Please...

Does the S55 have the personality of the S65? No, probably not. Does the car at least deserve a chance? Yes, absolutely.

P.S. I had a chance to look up close on all sorts of M3/4's this weekend. I personally think the F80 in Austin Yellow, gunmetal wheels and CF roof is to die for.
So well written. Thank you for some logical and legitimate contribution to the thread.

BREAK

FWIW, my assumptions (and hopes) are proving to be pretty accurate. This popped soon after my previous comments...http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=998857
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      06-16-2014, 04:33 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by ONEOF40 FS M3 View Post
I agree 100% if you like driving instead of riding

I also got an F10 M5 and after a year I replaced it for a 991 C2S, but I never got rid of my E92 M3 just like I never got rid of my S2K over the years.

...

When I drive the E92 M3 right after I get out of the 991, the E92 M3 is a fine piece of engineering with a jewel of an engine. The NA V8 sound is glorious. Overall not at the level of a 991 but not far behind considering the extra weight, thats how good the EXX is!!!

N/A engines and Manual Transmissions are sacred for me

I am all for technology but new and more is not always better for humans
Great stable. Well done.
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      06-16-2014, 04:34 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
Nothing last forever. Many say they won't leave this platform, but wait until the new M computers get opened up and power possibilities become endless... People always want more power.

The new M sounds like ass. Someone better make a good exhaust. please.
Considering the lack of development with cracking the F10 ECU, I remain skeptical about this. All the M5/M6 folks have available are $3500+ piggyback ECUs notorious for limp mode, that don't even work with the newer models that have the electronic wastegate.
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      06-16-2014, 04:42 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by modkrazy View Post
Considering the lack of development with cracking the F10 ECU, I remain skeptical about this. All the M5/M6 folks have available are $3500+ piggyback ECUs notorious for limp mode, that don't even work with the newer models that have the electronic wastegate.
False. http://www.burgertuning.com/N63_Jb_B...nce_Tuner.html
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      06-16-2014, 04:46 PM   #321
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      06-16-2014, 05:36 PM   #322
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The platform is 6 years old I would hope any new
M3/M4 product would have significant chassis and handling improvements (look at Porsches GT3 4 wheel steering for ex).

However, there will be no more high revving V8s in any future BMW M models. CAFE regulations have killed the motor so we are going to see a multitude of turbo and turbo hybrids M cars in the future which will be summarily smaller in displacement. Want to bet the next M5 is a turbo V6? The M3/M4 a turbo V4?

I've owned an 2008 997 GT3 and an 2008 Audi RS4. I think the E92 M3 is somewhere between the 2 cars.

The new M5 has already hit Carmax in large numbers. I see the new M3 showing up shortly.
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      06-16-2014, 06:07 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post
Are you trying to be clever, because you're coming across real dumb. That's a piggyback tune.
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      06-16-2014, 06:15 PM   #324
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I don't know why people are wanting a twin trubo kit for there E92. one of my biggest problems with the F80 is the trubo chargers LOL. They kill sound and feel. I would much rather have a 600+ S/C kit. Keeps a good sounding exhaust, while also keeping the power more like a N/A motor. and 650 HP IS PLENTY of power to beat most cars out there. and most M4 you will run into.
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      06-16-2014, 06:24 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Careful Driver View Post
These comments about F10 being a "whale" and not "handling" is ridiculous.

M5 competition package laps hockhenheim 3 full seconds faster than a E9X M3 and does it same time to the second as a new M3.

In nurburgring, it's 10 seconds quicker than a E9X M3 and 3 seconds slower than the new M3.

That shows you how the car handles and how fast it is. In terms of braking, handling, I can't really complain about this car. I can enter bends doing 100-110 with this car that I couldn't comfortably in my M3 doing only 70. With the M3, I'd feel like the car is going to break apart (just figuratively speaking) whereas M5 gives you too much confidence. There is just way too much wind noise and chassis noise in the M3 and it makes you feel how fast you are going. The tires, suspension, brakes, and the engine in the M5 are massive. It's like comparing a maverick missile to a ICBM. Unbelievable sheer power and handling. I can tell you this M5 handles much, much, MUCH better than my ZCP M3. Braking is identical, but I can take turns much more comfortably.

My beef isn't the handling....

My problem is the fucking sound. I roll my windows down in a tunnel in this car, all I hear is that bass full of throaty exhaust. There is no engine noise. None of it! I hear turbos, it's like a jet engine taking off, but that's about it.

Also the character of the engine. Turbo lag. No lag in these new Ms or minimal? Bullshit. Give me a break. I can produce 1-2 seconds of lag very easily when I have to brake and hit gas abruptly. Car goes completely brain fucked, doesn't understand what I'm trying to do. Yeah if you keep the revs are 4000 rpm and hit the throttle, it's sharp. But who does that? Try downshifting from 5 to 2nd and hitting the throttle at the same time, what was instantaneous with the E9X, takes a lifetime in this car.

Regarding the size of the M5
Are you guys kidding me? M5 is 0.5 inches wider than the new M3 and it's 2.5 inches wider than the old M3. Take a look at bmwusa.com yourselves if you dont believe me. The new M3 by no means is small, it's the same size as a E39 5 series! It has the same width as the new M5 (half an inch is like a centimeter, it's nothing!). So don't kid yourselves.

I guarantee you, with the right brembo brakes, wider 275 tires on stock ZCP wheels (which fit), and a better suspension setup (so a 5-7k job), the old M3 will handle just as good as the new M3.

Turbo lag is very much there and is not going anywhere.
We can play the number game if you want. Good point on the width, but why did you leave the most important one? 3540 lbs vs 4354 lbs (per BMW USA). That's 814 lbs!!!!!! That's unbelievable.

Having driven the M6 Coupe at the PC, I'll agree with you about the lag. But I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the car just cannot put down power.

I've literally never heard anyone ever say an M5 handles better than an M3, but you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.
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      06-16-2014, 06:28 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modkrazy View Post
Are you trying to be clever, because you're coming across real dumb. That's a piggyback tune.
Clearly you don't just come across as dumb but actually ARE dumb claiming all that is available are $3500 piggybacks when there is a perfectly good (and trusted) piggyback available from Terry @ BMS for, oh wait, <$500. Don't speak if you have no idea what you are talking about. Thanks though.

EDIT: He also can control the electronic solenoids on the newer cars N and S engines, too.
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      06-16-2014, 06:37 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
We can play the number game if you want. Good point on the width, but why did you leave the most important one? 3540 lbs vs 4354 lbs (per BMW USA). That's 814 lbs!!!!!! That's unbelievable.

Having driven the M6 Coupe at the PC, I'll agree with you about the lag. But I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the car just cannot put down power.

I've literally never heard anyone ever say an M5 handles better than an M3, but you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.
Truth there. Like 4 fat girls in the back.
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      06-16-2014, 06:40 PM   #328
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You know what? I am that kind of guy who always wanna get the latest model but not on the m3. I still love my m3, the cold start sounds insane and its just a joy to drive it.
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      06-16-2014, 07:09 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Careful Driver View Post
These comments about F10 being a "whale" and not "handling" is ridiculous.

M5 competition package laps hockhenheim 3 full seconds faster than a E9X M3 and does it same time to the second as a new M3.

In nurburgring, it's 10 seconds quicker than a E9X M3 and 3 seconds slower than the new M3.

That shows you how the car handles and how fast it is. In terms of braking, handling, I can't really complain about this car. I can enter bends doing 100-110 with this car that I couldn't comfortably in my M3 doing only 70. With the M3, I'd feel like the car is going to break apart (just figuratively speaking) whereas M5 gives you too much confidence. There is just way too much wind noise and chassis noise in the M3 and it makes you feel how fast you are going. The tires, suspension, brakes, and the engine in the M5 are massive. It's like comparing a maverick missile to a ICBM. Unbelievable sheer power and handling. I can tell you this M5 handles much, much, MUCH better than my ZCP M3. Braking is identical, but I can take turns much more comfortably.

My beef isn't the handling....

My problem is the fucking sound. I roll my windows down in a tunnel in this car, all I hear is that bass full of throaty exhaust. There is no engine noise. None of it! I hear turbos, it's like a jet engine taking off, but that's about it.

Also the character of the engine. Turbo lag. No lag in these new Ms or minimal? Bullshit. Give me a break. I can produce 1-2 seconds of lag very easily when I have to brake and hit gas abruptly. Car goes completely brain fucked, doesn't understand what I'm trying to do. Yeah if you keep the revs are 4000 rpm and hit the throttle, it's sharp. But who does that? Try downshifting from 5 to 2nd and hitting the throttle at the same time, what was instantaneous with the E9X, takes a lifetime in this car.

Regarding the size of the M5
Are you guys kidding me? M5 is 0.5 inches wider than the new M3 and it's 2.5 inches wider than the old M3. Take a look at bmwusa.com yourselves if you dont believe me. The new M3 by no means is small, it's the same size as a E39 5 series! It has the same width as the new M5 (half an inch is like a centimeter, it's nothing!). So don't kid yourselves.

I guarantee you, with the right brembo brakes, wider 275 tires on stock ZCP wheels (which fit), and a better suspension setup (so a 5-7k job), the old M3 will handle just as good as the new M3.

Turbo lag is very much there and is not going anywhere.
i love the M6 inside and out. i know you have a m5. but what stops me from really looking to buy one is the lack of sound. It lacks sound and when it doesn't lack sound, it sounds kind of weird.

thank you for confirming this for me.
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      06-16-2014, 07:32 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Careful Driver View Post
The M5 handles better than the M3. I don't have to say it, it's a factual statement. As I said, M5 laps considerably better around hockenheim and nurburgring than the M3.

But this is a perfect example of how all of this number speaking and factual comparison is meaningless when it comes to sheer driving pleasure. It doesnt matter how much faster the M5 is, it doesnt matter if it weighs 4300 lbs, heck it can weigh only 3500 lbs and still make all that power, its irrelevant. The car is NOT FUN TO DRIVE. PERIOD. There is nothing else to it.

I have a few thousand miles behind the wheel of this beast, which is a lot more than you and I can tell you the turbo lag has got nothing to do with traction or putting that power down. Traction is a problem on 1st gear if you go full throttle beginning 1000 rpm. If you know what you are doing, traction control never lights up. Car has a significant turbo lag. If you drive it in D3 or S3, doesn't matter, its there. DCT is improved, but it cannot hide the turbo lag, nothing can. I dare anyone to come sit with me in this car and I'm more than happy to prove it to you.

The M3 crowd is a smart group of people. Trust me. They will figure this out in a matter of weeks, not months. These cars are nothing like the old ones. Turbo lag is inevitable. In a race track, it may be okay, in city driving when you want to occasionally gun it and have some fun in freeway/highway, it kills the moment. It makes you remember you are driving a car with artificial steroids.

The only way to fix the turbo lag in these cars is working around the problem. You have to constantly give gas to the engine. It could be as little as 10-20% of throttle, but its enough. If you go from no gas to full (or close to it), and do this back to back several times, you feel disgusted. It doesn't matter which gear you are on, it's there.
The M5 does not handle anywhere near as well as the M3. You're drunk. The faster lap times are due to it simply being substantially more powerful. It gains significantly more time in the straights than the M3 does in the twisties. How is that hard to get?

Also, if it did only weigh 3500 lbs, it would be fun to drive. That's a fact.

Last, I find it laughable that everyone comments on the "significant turbo lag". Let's be honest with ourselves. Does it provide the response we truly want? No! Any turbo engine is never going to give the same feedback as a S/C or NA engine. Maybe it's just me, but the lag in any of the BMW FI cars I've driven (or audi) was SIGNIFICANT. Significant to me would be the lag you feel on a T66 Supra, or a GT35R STI. I just think people are finding any excuse to hate the new F8x (or the F1x, for that matter), other than one irrefutable fact- the sound is not ever going to compare to the S65.
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