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      06-08-2014, 05:22 AM   #23
filinm3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpico View Post
So, what are your personal beliefs of 10.0 Vs 10.5 Vs 11.0?

I have no idea what this all means and what is theory vs reality, but:

When I see ECR for stock motor limits (available s/c kits) running we will say 8psi, at the 12.0, ECR is 18.5 (correct?) and some kits run to 8.5psi=18.9 ECR (correct?)

and then using the VT3 setup of 650hp/12 psi (4.6l 10.0 cr) running 18.1 ECR

for a 4.0L, 12psi 11.0CR= 19.9ECR (too high?)

12psi 10.5:1= 19.0 (still to high?)

What i fear is that by not going to 4.6L and dropping to 10.0CR that one would lose more off boost power than desired. Not such a big deal when going to to larger CC.

Where do you think the safe middle ground would be?
My engine is built using 10,5:1 Mahle pistons and thicker Cometic head gasket. That combination ultimately resulted into 10,1-10,2 CR.

I am running now 14 psi setup at 98 RON. AWRON gauge always shows 14,3 -14,5 psi at full throttle and 8300-8500 rpms.

All is perfect and scary fast

Fuel pressure is 6,0-6,2 bar at max boost
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      06-08-2014, 05:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filinm3 View Post
My engine is built using 10,5:1 Mahle pistons and thicker Cometic head gasket. That combination ultimately resulted into 10,1-10,2 CR.

I am running now 14 psi setup at 98 RON. AWRON gauge always shows 14,3 -14,5 psi at full throttle and 8300-8500 rpms.

All is perfect and scary fast

Fuel pressure is 6,0-6,2 bar at max boost
Ah, perfect man to ask.

So what is your current fuel system? Care to share details on all the pieces you had to get, regardless of from before or after your mishap?

are you still 4.0 or 4.4, 4.6L?

You say 98 RON, any ethanol content?
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      06-08-2014, 07:04 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpico View Post
Ah, perfect man to ask.

So what is your current fuel system? Care to share details on all the pieces you had to get, regardless of from before or after your mishap?

are you still 4.0 or 4.4, 4.6L?

You say 98 RON, any ethanol content?
ESS fuel system went to the garbage box

I have M3 OEM fuel pump working together with 335 N54 pump. Modified sending unit, modified fuel rails, Fuelab FPR and metal lines from the tank to the engine bay. Plus 550-650cc injectors from Audi 2.7tt engine.

All that costs around 3,000$ with labor.

Engine is still 4.0l.

Fuel is 93 US, 98 RON. No meth yet.
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      06-08-2014, 03:57 PM   #26
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why would you have a 335 pump? those things are horrible for flow.
550-650cc injectors? arent they just the normal bosch ones all the s/c companies include?
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      06-08-2014, 06:24 PM   #27
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I am curious as to why one Walbro DCS 39/55 400 LPH fuel pump cannot be used with a set of fuel lines and FPR?

A few old projects I had ran dual 255 units back when no larger options where out there...

Fuel system upgrade is next on my list, ESS or another expert please chime in or PM me
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      06-09-2014, 11:56 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpico View Post
why would you have a 335 pump? those things are horrible for flow.
550-650cc injectors? arent they just the normal bosch ones all the s/c companies include?
335 and M3 pumps are working together and produce and support 6.2 bar of fuel pressure.

All is just perfect!

As for injectors, they are Bosch, yes, but so much bigger than the ones from VT-650
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      06-09-2014, 12:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cidle323 View Post
I am curious as to why one Walbro DCS 39/55 400 LPH fuel pump cannot be used with a set of fuel lines and FPR?

A few old projects I had ran dual 255 units back when no larger options where out there...

Fuel system upgrade is next on my list, ESS or another expert please chime in or PM me
You can. I would even opt for some of the nice Fuel Lab pumps or the Aeromotive A100 with the scaled pump controller that will allow you to tailor the pump to not overrun the regulator.

Doing the lines from the tank to the rail and using a bigger pump and injectors should be fine for alot of HP. Maybe then look at the rails, but the main thing is the pump and injectors/regulator.
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      06-09-2014, 01:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpico View Post
why would you have a 335 pump? those things are horrible for flow.
550-650cc injectors? arent they just the normal bosch ones all the s/c companies include?
With the VT3, I've used twin Walbro's, Bosch 044's, etc. I had 2 Walbro 255's fail on me. The problem with using those pumps is you can have pickup issues, starvation issues, unless you use a serge tank, and you can't run your car below 1/4 of a tank or you will starve for fuel.

The OEM M3 pump coupled with a 335I pump is good for 850+WHP, plenty of fuel for his application. It's not as easy as dropping in a pump, or two pumps into the stock M3 tank, it's about proper pick up, transfer of fuel from the saddle type tank, and working transfer / siphon jets. The OEM M3 and 335I pumps, have mini surge tanks, "buckets", that keep the pumps submerged in fuel at all times, even when the fuel is almost on empty. Besides the pump differences and few other things at the top mounting points for lines, etc., the buckets are identical in size, and share the exact same shell and the sending units on the drivers side share identical parts, siphon jet, etc.

Both pumps have a venturi valve at the bottom of the bucket that constantly keeps it full of fuel, to make that work with an aftermarket pump is a lot of work and more apt for failure, leaks or issues. The M3 pump has an additional siphon jet on the side to keep the bucket full, then the return line goes to both pumps to keep the buckets over flowing with even more fuel.

The "transfer" siphon jet on the other side of the tank is now operated by the return fuel so you don't lose volume by using the feed pumps to activate it, the stock FPR, filter and smaller lines are bypassed as well and the stock feed line is used now as a return. All of this prevents starvation, overheating the pumps, and they both operate at 5bar which is what you need for the S65. Along with larger lines, modified fuel rails, 1:1 fpr it works quite well.
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      06-09-2014, 01:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
With the VT3, I've used twin Walbro's, Bosch 044's, etc. I had 2 Walbro 255's fail on me. The problem with using those pumps is you can have pickup issues, starvation issues, unless you use a serge tank, and you can't run your car below 1/4 of a tank or you will starve for fuel.

The OEM M3 pump coupled with a 335I pump is good for 850+WHP, plenty of fuel for his application. It's not as easy as dropping in a pump, or two pumps into the stock M3 tank, it's about proper pick up, transfer of fuel from the saddle type tank, and working transfer / siphon jets. The OEM M3 and 335I pumps, have mini surge tanks, "buckets", that keep the pumps submerged in fuel at all times, even when the fuel is almost on empty. Besides the pump differences and few other things at the top mounting points for lines, etc., the buckets are identical in size, and share the exact same shell and the sending units on the drivers side share identical parts, siphon jet, etc.

Both pumps have a venturi valve at the bottom of the bucket that constantly keeps it full of fuel, to make that work with an aftermarket pump is a lot of work and more apt for failure, leaks or issues. The M3 pump has an additional siphon jet on the side to keep the bucket full, then the return line goes to both pumps to keep the buckets over flowing with even more fuel.

The "transfer" siphon jet on the other side of the tank is now operated by the return fuel so you don't lose volume by using the feed pumps to activate it, the stock FPR, filter and smaller lines are bypassed as well and the stock feed line is used now as a return. All of this prevents starvation, overheating the pumps, and they both operate at 5bar which is what you need for the S65. Along with larger lines, modified fuel rails, 1:1 fpr it works quite well.
Just YES to all this!
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      06-09-2014, 02:34 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
With the VT3, I've used twin Walbro's, Bosch 044's, etc. I had 2 Walbro 255's fail on me. The problem with using those pumps is you can have pickup issues, starvation issues, unless you use a serge tank, and you can't run your car below 1/4 of a tank or you will starve for fuel.

The OEM M3 pump coupled with a 335I pump is good for 850+WHP, plenty of fuel for his application. It's not as easy as dropping in a pump, or two pumps into the stock M3 tank, it's about proper pick up, transfer of fuel from the saddle type tank, and working transfer / siphon jets. The OEM M3 and 335I pumps, have mini surge tanks, "buckets", that keep the pumps submerged in fuel at all times, even when the fuel is almost on empty. Besides the pump differences and few other things at the top mounting points for lines, etc., the buckets are identical in size, and share the exact same shell and the sending units on the drivers side share identical parts, siphon jet, etc.

Both pumps have a venturi valve at the bottom of the bucket that constantly keeps it full of fuel, to make that work with an aftermarket pump is a lot of work and more apt for failure, leaks or issues. The M3 pump has an additional siphon jet on the side to keep the bucket full, then the return line goes to both pumps to keep the buckets over flowing with even more fuel.

The "transfer" siphon jet on the other side of the tank is now operated by the return fuel so you don't lose volume by using the feed pumps to activate it, the stock FPR, filter and smaller lines are bypassed as well and the stock feed line is used now as a return. All of this prevents starvation, overheating the pumps, and they both operate at 5bar which is what you need for the S65. Along with larger lines, modified fuel rails, 1:1 fpr it works quite well.
Quote:
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Just YES to all this!
Straight from the horse right there.
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      06-09-2014, 06:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filinm3 View Post
My engine is built using 10,5:1 Mahle pistons and thicker Cometic head gasket. That combination ultimately resulted into 10,1-10,2 CR.

I am running now 14 psi setup at 98 RON. AWRON gauge always shows 14,3 -14,5 psi at full throttle and 8300-8500 rpms.

All is perfect and scary fast

Fuel pressure is 6,0-6,2 bar at max boost
Cometic makes a hg set? Any links? I've been curious if anyone was going try the thicker headgasket route to drop the CR down some. The stock pistons/rods seem beefy enough already to go past 600whp, the CR is just too damn high to make it reliable.
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      06-09-2014, 06:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Cometic makes a hg set? Any links? I've been curious if anyone was going try the thicker headgasket route to drop the CR down some. The stock pistons/rods seem beefy enough already to go past 600whp, the CR is just too damn high to make it reliable.
I believe Cometic has the S65 gasket listed right on their web site. Yes you can order Cometic S65 head gaskets in various thicknesses also. That's what I did for Sergei, and another build I've been helping with. A few months ago, I posted a chart of different gasket thicknesses and how they affected the compression ratio. It was based on real S65 numbers and wasn't just hypothetical. Maybe if I can get some time, I'll generate the same data again.

Last edited by regular guy; 06-09-2014 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Corrected grammar.
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      06-10-2014, 07:26 AM   #35
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Quote:
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I believe Cometic has the S65 gasket listed right on their web site. Yes you can order Cometic S65 head gaskets in various thicknesses also. That's what I did for Sergei, and another build I've been helping with. A few months ago, I posted a chart of different gasket thicknesses and how they affected the compression ratio. It was based on real S65 numbers and wasn't just hypothetical. Maybe if I can get some time, I'll generate the same data again.
I wish I had seen that post. Was it on m3post?
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      06-28-2014, 09:02 PM   #36
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Quote:
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I believe Cometic has the S65 gasket listed right on their web site. Yes you can order Cometic S65 head gaskets in various thicknesses also. That's what I did for Sergei, and another build I've been helping with. A few months ago, I posted a chart of different gasket thicknesses and how they affected the compression ratio. It was based on real S65 numbers and wasn't just hypothetical. Maybe if I can get some time, I'll generate the same data again.
If you could, that would be great
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      06-29-2014, 04:50 AM   #37
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Great thread guys, keep it up, reading and learning....
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      07-20-2014, 06:26 AM   #38
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Hi All,

About to build myself after an engine issue.

Currently run a Gintani SC at 8psi, would like to at least get a little more power out of it while I'm at it to turn the situation around into at least something good.

Looking at

Pistons - CP $1,500
Rods - Carrillo $2,300
Rod Bearings - VAC
Main Studs - VAC
Gasket Kit - OEM

Putting in an Oil Pan baffle and will likly inspec the clutch while I'm at it.

Questions,

1# For those that have lowered compression, any issues with engine managment? I currently just run a Gintani flash.

2# Thanks drew for the details on the fuel setup. Do you gents have a diagram or details on how I could get a mechanic who hasn't done this before to set it up. Tips/Tricks.. that sort of stuff? Sounds like a good investment.
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      07-20-2014, 10:15 AM   #39
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CP doesn't make Alusil friendly pistons. You either need to go to Mahle or sleeve your block.
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      07-20-2014, 05:11 PM   #40
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One question no one asks: for those who want a SC on their LC build or their stroked motor who's going to tune it? Everyone seems to think that ESS (or whoever) will just do it for them. I'm not so sure. It really is not their business model. Hell, ESS's VT3 is not for the general public. Build a 4.4 LC engine? Want a supercharger? Who will tune it? If you don't know somebody good luck! If the SC manufacture does not build your LC motor then good luck.
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      07-20-2014, 05:38 PM   #41
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Gintani did all mine

Supercharged high compression stroker
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      07-20-2014, 09:31 PM   #42
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Gintani did all mine

Supercharged high compression stroker
Exactly! I'm doing the same. All in one.
Otherwise, as I said, good luck!
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      07-20-2014, 09:48 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Gintani did all mine

Supercharged high compression stroker
Hey Jarrod, do you have an aftermarket ECU or still just a flash tune?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
CP doesn't make Alusil friendly pistons. You either need to go to Mahle or sleeve your block.
Thanks.. what does Alusil mean btw?
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      07-21-2014, 12:06 AM   #44
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It's all flash/stock fuel system, apart from injectors. The stroker component actually worked fine with the original s/c flash, but Gintani updated it to include some extra parameters. My setup runs a bit rich, mostly at the track, which is ok with me. I do get some burnt fuel I have to clean off rear bumper after track days though. Pretty typical for this setup.

Torque is intense with 12.0:1 compression, it's very bouncy, especially down low, almost twitchy. It's great on semi slicks but hopeless on my old street tyres and would spin in first 3 gears. I am getting new streets tomorrow, so keen to hopefully get some traction back. The other night on the hwy in 3rd gear I was doing 70 and put my foot down and the f*cking rear end stepped out sideways.

At the track, I find I often short shift (6MT), rather than rev it out, because the torque is always there. I can also stay in 4th through turns where everyone else drops to 3rd.
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