BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > DIY Guides/ Discussions
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-10-2014, 04:32 PM   #89
kenwelch
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3 M-DCT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA

Posts: 378
iTrader: (0)

Short of a Blackstone or other professional testing, the visual appearance and change of smell will often give you lots of information about the fluid. The more transmission rebuilding experience the observer has helps also.

Looking at a picture of used fluid and no observation of what is in the transmission pan and filter is not conclusive either. Smell-o-vision would help, I hear they are working on that.
kenwelch is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2014, 09:40 PM   #90
tinman831
Captain
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: DFW

Posts: 625
iTrader: (0)

Does anyone know how to change the gasket on the pan on the side of the transmission? Seems like the upper bolts are almost impossible to get at without dropping the tranny? or am I overlooking something?
tinman831 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2014, 05:10 PM   #91
S1RC
New Member
 
Drives: 2008 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Canada

Posts: 27
iTrader: (0)

I'm looking at changing the fluid on my DCT soon, I've already purchased some fluid, getting ready to buy the filters when I stumbled on this post.

- Has anyone actually changed the filter (not the suction filter) themselves? It sounds like it's really difficult to get to.
- When changing the suction filter, do you have to replace the DCT oil pan gasket? It looks like the gasket is built into the pan so probably requires a new pan to replace.

I also found this post: http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442369

Sounds like (from that post) BMWNA doesn't suggest changing the DCT fluid and won't do it even on customer request. With my car being almost 100km and I'm unsure if it was changed, I'm debating now if I should even bother. I bought the car back in February and have plans to track it, just don't want to do more damage than good.

Last edited by S1RC; 04-23-2014 at 06:52 AM.
S1RC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2014, 09:03 AM   #92
dparm
Major
 
dparm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

Posts: 1,370
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by S1RC View Post
I'm looking at changing the fluid on my DCT soon, I've already purchased some fluid, getting ready to buy the filters when I stumbled on this post.

- Has anyone actually changed the filter (not the suction filter) themselves? It sounds like it's really difficult to get to.
- When changing the suction filter, do you have to replace the DCT oil pan gasket? It looks like the gasket is built into the pan so probably requires a new pan to replace.

I also found this post: http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442369

Sounds like (from that post) BMWNA doesn't suggest changing the DCT fluid and won't do it even on customer request. With my car being almost 100km and I'm unsure if it was changed, I'm debating now if I should even bother. I bought the car back in February and have plans to track it, just don't want to do more damage than good.

My shop changed the filter. I don't know what they specifically did, but they did have my car for quite a while.

BMW claims it is a lifetime fluid and the DCT is a sealed unit, yes. From what we've seen in some analyses of used fluid, the factory-fill Pentosin FFL-4 (aka BMW DCTF-1) is very stout and the transmission itself doesn't create a ton of particulate matter. Even at 50-75k the fluids looked good.

If you want peace-of-mind, change it. The fluid is $15-20/L and you'll probably pay about 1.0-1.5 hours of labor. Figure around $200 for your total cost.
__________________
2011.5 AW M3 sedan ZCP
dparm is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-03-2014, 01:12 AM   #93
BzsBimmer
2-4-6-8 My car and house depreciate
 
BzsBimmer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Modesto CA

Posts: 1,731
iTrader: (12)

Send a message via Yahoo to BzsBimmer
Posted here
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...64&postcount=9

I'm lost. Are we still using Pentosin or SAF-XJ + FM Booster?
BzsBimmer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2014, 12:26 AM   #94
BzsBimmer
2-4-6-8 My car and house depreciate
 
BzsBimmer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Modesto CA

Posts: 1,731
iTrader: (12)

Send a message via Yahoo to BzsBimmer
Anyone?
BzsBimmer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2014, 02:25 AM   #95
SenorFunkyPants
Colonel
 
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,284
iTrader: (0)

SAF-XJ + FM Booster is the fill for the differential and absolutely should not be used for the DCT.
Pentosin FFL-4 is the only approved First Fill and Service Fill transmission fluid for the new generation of BMW double clutch gear transmissions (DCT). = correct.
__________________
SenorFunkyPants is online now   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2014, 03:10 AM   #96
m45
Private
 
m45's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: LA - South Bay

Posts: 79
iTrader: (6)

Just found this posted on another forum. The recommended torque for the filler plug is 25 Nm (+/- 3Nm).

Quote:
SI B28 03 08
Double-Clutch Transmission with Drivelogic July 2008
Technical Service

SUBJECT
M Double-Clutch Transmission with Drivelogic - Transmission Filling and Fluid Level Checking Procedure
MODEL
E90, E92, E93 M3 with S65 and M DCT transmission
SITUATION
The current version of BMW TIS does not contain the M DCT (GS7D36SG) transmission fluid filling (fluid checking) procedure. Use the following procedure when the M DCT fluid fill (check) is required.
Important:
The M Double-Clutch Transmission (DCT) requires a special lubricant/hydraulic fluid: DCTF-1 Pentosin (P/N 83 22 2 147 477). This fluid is specific to the double-clutch transmission and should not be substituted with any other product.
Substituting the DCTF-1 Pentosin in M Double-Clutch Transmission (GS7D36SG) may cause significant damage to the internal clutches of the transmission assembly, requiring replacement of the complete gearbox, transmission oil cooler, and cooler lines.
The BMW DCTF-1 Pentosin fluid does not require regular service. It is an extended-life type of fluid and should not be replaced. Currently the fluid is in extremely short supply, and can be obtained only after a PuMA case is submitted to TeileClearing (Enhanced Technical Support). Refer to SI B28 02 08 (May 2008) for more information related to M DCT TeileClearing.
1. The vehicle needs to be leveled and secured on the appropriate workshop lift. Connect the vehicle to the DIS/GT1 loaded with the current version of diagnostic software (V53 or higher).

2. Remove the transmission's under-cover to gain access to the refilling plug (1). Make sure that the transmission is at ambient temperature (engine should not be warmed up).
3. Using an Allen M8 wrench, loosen the fluid filling plug (1).
4. For refilling (empty gearbox after repair):
Remove the filling plug from the transmission housing and refill the transmission with approximately 8 liters of DCTF-1 fluid, until it starts to overflow.
5. For checking the fluid level:
Carefully start removing the filler plug until the DCTF-1 fluid starts to flow.
Do not remove the filler plug completely!!!
With the correct fluid level and the gearbox filler plug removed while the engine is NOT running, approximately 1.5 liters of transmission fluid will escape, leaving the gearbox underfilled. (The total capacity of the DCT transmission with oil cooler and cooler lines is approximately 9.5 liters.)

6. Install the filler plug (do not torque it yet).
7. From the DIS/GT1 diagnosis menu, select
Service Functions, Transmission Controls, Calibrations, and Oil calibration.
8. Start the engine with the DCT gearbox in the P position.
9. Follow the "Oil calibration" test plan by running the engine at 2,000 rpm for 1 minute (reaching the maximum cooler line pressure of 5 bars).
10. Using DIS/GT1, observe the transmission fluid temperature. When it reaches approximately 40 C, open the filler plug again (with the engine running), and top off the fluid level until it starts to overflow.
11. Install the filler plug and torque it to 25 +/- 3 Nm.
WARRANTY INFORMATION
For information only
[ Copyright 2008 BMW of North America, LLC ]
m45 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2014, 07:57 PM   #97
BzsBimmer
2-4-6-8 My car and house depreciate
 
BzsBimmer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Modesto CA

Posts: 1,731
iTrader: (12)

Send a message via Yahoo to BzsBimmer
Whaddafluck is wrong with me... hahaha
WHY am I thinking DCT is a rear differential!
DOH

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
SAF-XJ + FM Booster is the fill for the differential and absolutely should not be used for the DCT.
Pentosin FFL-4 is the only approved First Fill and Service Fill transmission fluid for the new generation of BMW double clutch gear transmissions (DCT). = correct.
BzsBimmer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-17-2014, 04:49 AM   #98
3er_Albtraum
e92 ///M3 ZCP
 
3er_Albtraum's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 e92 ///M3
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: S.I NY

Posts: 109
iTrader: (0)

Nice DIY!
3er_Albtraum is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2014, 01:14 PM   #99
SimiM3
New Member
 
SimiM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Simi Valley CA

Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

I am looking into doing this for my E90 M3 and had a question: After running the engine at 2k rpm for a minute, do you leave the engine running while you top off the fluid? One post states that you do, but the TIS (see below) is not clear.

Topping up transmission oil after a repair:
Stand vehicle on a level surface and secure against rolling off.
1. Open fluid adjusting screw (1). If fluid emerges, close screw again immediately
If no fluid emerges, top up until fluid emerges and close fluid adjusting screw (1) again
Note: If fluid has been replenished here, a further refill must be carried out during the actual
fluid adjustment
2. Connect diagnosis system and start service functions (drive).
3. Start engine (drive position N or P)
4. Record transmission temperature using the diagnosis system
5. (Drive position P)
6. Permissible starting temperature ≤ 32 C
7. Idle speed: maintain at approx. 2000 rpm for 1 minute.
8. Open fluid adjusting screw (1)
9. Fill until oil emerges
Max. transmission oil temperature 40 C
10. Insert screw

See this post also:

http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442369

Thanks for the help.

Great write up!
SimiM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-10-2014, 12:06 AM   #100
da jemster
New Member
 
da jemster's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3, E93 M3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: United States

Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)

OP, thanks for the write-up. Here's my new vs. old at 72K. One thing though, I had 5 1/2 liters come out of mine. I placed a level on top of the car, jacked the car up and placed them on jackstands and got close enough to level as when I started. I replaced the suction filter as well. So, the kit that I bought from ECS was insufficient as I needed one more bottle.

As for the cylindrical transmission filter, has anyone gotten to replace that yet? (You...if you had first-hand experience, not a shop that you left your car with). I was able to move the two heat exchanger lines #12 and #13 on the diagram, by unbolting the one bolt on the drivers side and the three bolts on the passenger side. But I was just inches from clearing the lines from the filter opening. I attempted this after I had replaced the suction filter, re-installed the DCT Tranny oil pan and filled it up with 5 bottles. I think if I left the oil pan off, I could've moved the tubes to clear the opening.
Attached Images
    
da jemster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2014, 01:14 PM   #101
tdott
Lieutenant
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: T.Dot

Posts: 421
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimiM3 View Post
I am looking into doing this for my E90 M3 and had a question: After running the engine at 2k rpm for a minute, do you leave the engine running while you top off the fluid? One post states that you do, but the TIS (see below) is not clear.
Yes.
__________________
tdott is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2014, 01:19 PM   #102
tdott
Lieutenant
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: T.Dot

Posts: 421
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by da jemster View Post
OP, thanks for the write-up. Here's my new vs. old at 72K.
Happy to see I wasn't the only one with fluid that looks 'dirty'. I'm planning another flush soon with the left over fluid I have and a filter change, but haven't got around to doing it yet, haven't driven the car much since taking it out of storage.
__________________
tdott is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2014, 04:46 PM   #103
SimiM3
New Member
 
SimiM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Simi Valley CA

Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

Thanks
SimiM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-20-2014, 12:42 AM   #104
SimiM3
New Member
 
SimiM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Simi Valley CA

Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by da jemster View Post
OP, thanks for the write-up. Here's my new vs. old at 72K. One thing though, I had 5 1/2 liters come out of mine. I placed a level on top of the car, jacked the car up and placed them on jackstands and got close enough to level as when I started. I replaced the suction filter as well. So, the kit that I bought from ECS was insufficient as I needed one more bottle.

As for the cylindrical transmission filter, has anyone gotten to replace that yet? (You...if you had first-hand experience, not a shop that you left your car with). I was able to move the two heat exchanger lines #12 and #13 on the diagram, by unbolting the one bolt on the drivers side and the three bolts on the passenger side. But I was just inches from clearing the lines from the filter opening. I attempted this after I had replaced the suction filter, re-installed the DCT Tranny oil pan and filled it up with 5 bottles. I think if I left the oil pan off, I could've moved the tubes to clear the opening.
I just finished a DCT fluid service on my 2010 E90 M3. I had some kind of leak around the pan.
Name:  DCT pan leak.jpg
Views: 67
Size:  44.7 KB

So I had to pull the pan and replace it. I would have replaced the gasket only, but it is not available without purchasing the complete pan and gasket. I purchased the compete DCT service kit from ECS tuning which included both filters and the fluid along with the drain and filler plugs. I also replace the trans oil cooler line o rings. ECS has those as well.

I did remove the pan and suction filter first.
E90-REP-28-10-000 Replacing suction Filter.pdf

I do think this helped make room to move the pressure lines out of the way to remove the pressure filter.
E90-REP-28-60-00 Replacing Pressure Filter.pdf

If you look at the above TIS, they want you to remove half the car and drop the trans, but I did not find it necessary. On page 2 of the pressure filter instructions above, the #1 bold needs to be removed which allows the lines to be pulled out of the trans. The bracket can be unhooked from the bottom line, which allows the lines to be separated. On the passenger side, the two pressure lines are attached with a bracket with one bolt in the center. Once the bolt (and metal sleeve) is removed, the lines can be moved out of the way. I pushed the top line above the opening to the pressure filter, and the lower line below the opening.
Name:  pressure filter.jpg
Views: 67
Size:  66.0 KB

I used snap ring pliers to remove the snap ring. I can't imagine how difficult it would have been without the snap ring pliers. There was enough room to pull the cover then the filter.
Name:  pressure filter 2.jpg
Views: 66
Size:  41.8 KB

Putting it back together and filling it up took some time, but it looks clean and it went into gear, so I would call it a success.
Name:  DCT clean.jpg
Views: 66
Size:  45.7 KB

I did try to follow the torque specs as close as possible, but could not is some cases because of space limitations.
E90-AZD-28-1-10 Housing with add-on parts.pdf
and
E90-AZD-28-1-00 Transmission in general.pdf

So to answer your question, yes I think it helps to have the trans pan off first, before you take out the pressure filter.

Second, I noticed your diagram and notes reference the heat exchanger, but I only had to move the trans oil cooler lines.
Name:  232.png
Views: 66
Size:  9.2 KB

My fluid looked in between the two samples you have in your photo. I am sending a sample to Blackstone to see what they think and will post the results when I receive them. My car has a little over 66 K on it.

I appreciate the original post and comments as they definitely helped me with this project.

Last edited by SimiM3; 07-20-2014 at 04:42 PM.
SimiM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-22-2014, 12:00 PM   #105
da jemster
New Member
 
da jemster's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3, E93 M3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: United States

Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimiM3 View Post
I just finished a DCT fluid service on my 2010 E90 M3....
Hey, I'm in Simi too! I'm by Santa Susanna High.

Finally a post on how to remove that filter! Since I don't wanna spend on another 6 quarts, I'll wait another 30K miles before I attempt to follow your instructions and change fluids and suction filter.

BTW, were 5 quarts sufficient for you?
da jemster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-22-2014, 05:53 PM   #106
SimiM3
New Member
 
SimiM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Simi Valley CA

Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by da jemster View Post
Hey, I'm in Simi too! I'm by Santa Susanna High.

Finally a post on how to remove that filter! Since I don't wanna spend on another 6 quarts, I'll wait another 30K miles before I attempt to follow your instructions and change fluids and suction filter.

BTW, were 5 quarts sufficient for you?
Cool, another M3 in Simi. I'm by wood ranch elementary.

I ordered an extra liter for a total of 6, but only used 5. I am a little worried that I did not get the level exactly right, so I am looking into having a shop verify it's correct. But it is running fine so far.
SimiM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-22-2014, 08:38 PM   #107
da jemster
New Member
 
da jemster's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3, E93 M3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: United States

Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimiM3 View Post
Cool, another M3 in Simi. I'm by wood ranch elementary.

I ordered an extra liter for a total of 6, but only used 5. I am a little worried that I did not get the level exactly right, so I am looking into having a shop verify it's correct. But it is running fine so far.
Did you leave the car running after the 2K RPM/1 MINUTE warm-up period while filling it up? And how did you get to disconnect the oil line - held by screw/clamp?

Last edited by da jemster; 07-22-2014 at 08:55 PM.
da jemster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-23-2014, 06:40 PM   #108
SimiM3
New Member
 
SimiM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Simi Valley CA

Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by da jemster View Post
Did you leave the car running after the 2K RPM/1 MINUTE warm-up period while filling it up? And how did you get to disconnect the oil line - held by screw/clamp?
I started the car and held 2K for about 20 seconds. I was concerned that while I was under the car with it still running, that the temp would climb too high. I should have checked the temp but everything was getting hot under there, so I just filled it until it started to come out and installed the plug.

The oil lines are held in with just one bolt, #1 in the photo below. I used an 8 mm closed end wrench, which worked fine. Anything that is a 12 point, such as a socket or closed end wrench will work. I did not have a 12 point 8 mm socket, so I used a wrench.
Name:  pressure filter.jpg
Views: 42
Size:  85.0 KB

Once the bolt is out, the clamp moves freely and the lines just pull out of the trans. After the passenger side clamp is removed, there is a lot of play to move the lines out of the way. My third photo from my original post shows the lines out of the way with the pressure filter removed.
Name:  pressure filter 2.jpg
Views: 42
Size:  41.8 KB


I hope this helps.

Last edited by SimiM3; 07-24-2014 at 05:11 PM.
SimiM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2014, 10:28 AM   #109
da jemster
New Member
 
da jemster's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3, E93 M3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: United States

Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimiM3 View Post
I hope this helps.
Yes it does. I'll change that filter at my 100K interval. Thx!
da jemster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2014, 02:08 PM   #110
tmntmn
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: e92 M3/M-DCT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay Area

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimiM3 View Post
I started the car and held 2K for about 20 seconds. I was concerned that while I was under the car with it still running, that the temp would climb too high. I should have checked the temp but everything was getting hot under there, so I just filled it until it started to come out and installed the plug.

The oil lines are held in with just one bolt, #1 in the photo below. I used an 8 mm closed end wrench, which worked fine. Anything that is a 12 point, such as a socket or open end wrench will work. I did not have a 12 point 8 mm socket, so I used a wrench.
Attachment 1064415

Once the bolt is out, the clamp moves freely and the lines just pull out of the trans. After the passenger side clamp is removed, there is a lot of play to move the lines out of the way. My third photo from my original post shows the lines out of the way with the pressure filter removed.
Attachment 1064416


I hope this helps.
Planning on ordering the kit also to change out my DCT Fluid, if i change out the suction filter can i reuse my oil pan and gasket or do i have to purchase a new one?

for the pressure filter did you just pull it straight out?

do you have the part number for trans oil cooler line o rings you ordered?
__________________
THANKS TO:~<RPM>~ ~<SONICMS>~ ~<MODECARBON>~ ~<McKennaPerformance>~
MODS: MODECARBON V2 GTS FRONT LIP & REAR DIFFUSER, AA GREEN FILTER, RPI SCOOPS, PSW, Verstraβe Extended DCT Shifter, ZCP WHEELS (SEMI-GLOSS), OHLINS R&T, Megan Exhaust, ACM TP, BMW LED INTERIOR, BLACKOUT W/ORION V4 LED AE, OSRAM CBI
tmntmn is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST