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View Poll Results: Where do you get your news?
CNN 34 34.00%
BBC 28 28.00%
Le Monde Diplomatique 2 2.00%
Los Angeles Times 4 4.00%
New York Times 17 17.00%
Reuters 20 20.00%
Salon.com 5 5.00%
The Washington Post 11 11.00%
Slate Magazine 4 4.00%
World Press Review 2 2.00%
Alter.Net 2 2.00%
Wall Street Journal 21 21.00%
Barron's 3 3.00%
Al Jazeera 6 6.00%
Truthout 3 3.00%
The Nation 2 2.00%
Free Speech TV 2 2.00%
Project Censored 2 2.00%
Media Matters 2 2.00%
The Daily Howler 2 2.00%
Adbusters 2 2.00%
Center for Media and Democracy's PR Watch 2 2.00%
Fox News 40 40.00%
MSNBC 11 11.00%
Local News 18 18.00%
NPR 15 15.00%
PBS News Hour 7 7.00%
Institute for Public Accuracy 2 2.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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      04-16-2014, 11:12 AM   #45
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I'm glad you have an opinion on which news channel you think is worthy of viewing and which isn't. Now just understand that other people have their own opinions on that issue...
I certainly do. And did.

I was responding to a post where someone who was criticized for not liking Fox News, with the implication that it was just a disagreement about content. I simply clarified why Fox is different from other sources who may be equally biased, and why that difference, independent of the content, is distasteful for a great many people.

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      04-16-2014, 11:33 AM   #46
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I certainly do. And did.

I was responding to a post where someone who was criticized for not liking Fox News, with the implication that it was just a disagreement about content. I simply clarified why Fox is different from other sources who may be equally biased, and why that difference, independent of the content, is distasteful for a great many people.
You were responding to my post which was telling tony20009 that no one cares if he dislikes FOX. And again here, I really don't care if you dislike FOX news either. And no amount of typing is going to change peoples' minds, especially on this forum.

The whole point of this thread was to ask people where they get their news from...no one is looking for self-righteous lectures on why News organization A is bad and News Organization B is good...people can figure that out for themselves.
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      04-16-2014, 10:37 PM   #47
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Actually yes you did...

This thread solicited people's opinions on which news organization they watched the most...why are you wasting so much time and energy trying to trash one of those organizations? The majority of people on this forum, and in this country, are smart enough to know what kind of organization FOX is and what it represents, just like they know what MSNBC and CNN represent.

Why not just leave it? You sound like a broken record that no one wants to listen to.
Red:
I am the thread's creator. I therefore have no compunction about the thoughts I choose to share that are consistent with the topic.

Trashing Fox:
From among the passages you cited, I had something negative to say about Fox. You cited six statements I made.
  1. This one is neutral. You may think "biased" is negative. I think "biased" is neutral. The theists biased toward believing in God. atheists are biased toward disbelieving in God. You're the one who assigned an element of negativity to that statement, not me.
  2. I don't know what is negative at all about stating that one organization is simply the other side of a coin.
  3. I definitely made a negative attestation about Fox in this statement. I also explained my reason for not liking Fox.
  4. Nothing negative or positive in this statement. I stated a fact. Fox has done exactly what I said. It's a fact. Do you think citing facts is the same thing as voicing a negative opinion? I don't.
  5. Do you find the majority of Fox's mistakes and subsequent retractions pertain to political or non-political stories? Regardless of what you or I would answer to that question, the remainder of passage you cited says nothing about Fox. Moreover, the subject of that statement is about the impact of mistakes and that impact differs not regardless of what major new organization makes the error.
  6. First off, Fox isn't mentioned at all. Second, the passage you cited pertains to how "sound bite" reporting omits relevant facts and it states my belief that to do that is insulting to the viewer. Yet again, if you think that statement pertains to Fox, that's your conjuration; it's not what I said.
To conclude, it's true I do not care for the management and practices of the Fox News organization because they just plain lied about the President of the United States. It's not in question that they lied. It's not in question that the lie occurred during a political commentary segment. So, yes, I had something negative to say about it, but it was well deserved. Every other comment that you cited shows me sharing my thoughts about industry wide practices and in none of them did I singularly lambaste Fox. In at least two, the subject I was discussing wasn't even the Fox New organization.


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      04-16-2014, 10:41 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
You were responding to my post which was telling tony20009 that no one cares if he dislikes FOX. And again here, I really don't care if you dislike FOX news either. And no amount of typing is going to change peoples' minds, especially on this forum.

The whole point of this thread was to ask people where they get their news from...no one is looking for self-righteous lectures on why News organization A is bad and News Organization B is good...people can figure that out for themselves.
You are wrong!

I would like to read other people's thoughts about the merits, as they see them, of various new organizations. Though that isn't the specific question asked in the thread title, it is a related enough discussion topic and I welcome people's thoughts on it.

What I don't welcome is one loudmouth telling the rest of us what we do or don't want to hear. I also don't welcome you specifically telling me or anyone else what is the point of my thread's creation. If you want to know why I created this thread, you can ask me and I'll gladly respond.
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      04-16-2014, 10:49 PM   #49
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tony20009, you are calling me the loudmouth? Nearly all of the statements you have made have either made a direct argument against FOX or have alluded to FOX...that seems to be the only recurring theme in every response you have made so far. Again, I don't really care if you dislike FOX, so just get off the thread and let everyone state who they watch for news.

And thank you for yet another lengthy and self-righteous lecture about how I am wrong and you are right...another win for a BMW forum poster.
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      04-17-2014, 07:48 AM   #50
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      04-17-2014, 10:37 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
...
What I don't welcome is one loudmouth telling the rest of us what we do or don't want to hear. I also don't welcome you specifically telling me or anyone else what is the point of my thread's creation. If you want to know why I created this thread, you can ask me and I'll gladly respond.

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Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
tony20009, you are calling me the loudmouth? ...
I was unambiguously clear about what I said that specifically referred to you. Once again, it's your own read of my statement that got you to the hypothesis that it may have pertained to you. I don't welcome any loudmouth, whether that individual be you or anyone else, telling me what "everyone" wants to hear, much less what was my intent for any action I took/take. I didn't call you a loudmouth, but if you feel the shoe fits, far be it from me to stop you from putting it on.

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Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
...Nearly all of the statements you have made have either made a direct argument against FOX or have alluded to FOX...that seems to be the only recurring theme in every response you have made so far. Again, I don't really care if you dislike FOX, so just get off the thread and let everyone state who they watch for news.
Your repeated posts on this line demonstrate that you have a reading comprehension development need when it comes to differentiating the general from the specific. In five of the six statements I made and that you cited, I made general statements and you are the one who chose to interpret them as having been made (by me) with reference specifically to Fox News.

For five of the six quotes of mine to which you referred earlier, I have pointed out that it was you who misinterpreted them by assuming a specific reference from a generalized statement you read. (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=47) Rather than in response showing me to be incorrect, you essentially repeated the claim you made in the post that identified the six quotes you selected. (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=43) Your original claim is no stronger because you repeat it again.

I have stated my primary complaint regarding Fox and I agreed that I made that I derided them for that reason. (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=15) If you have new evidence that I have made assailed Fox in any other post, please let me know. As before, I will accede that you are correct, or I'll show you why you are not correct.

If instead you have nothing new to say that is also substantive and germane to either my comments about Fox or with regard to an opposing point of view about the merit and equity of Fox's content and the manner in which their new and editorial employees present it, we are done with this discussion.

All the best.
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      04-17-2014, 01:58 PM   #52
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Really Tony, you are making arguments out of nothing. I pointed out that most of your posts were indicating your dislike for FOX, either directly or indirectly. You've tried to defend yourself by claiming your statements weren't overtly negative.

I really don't care if you consider your statements negative or not, I'm just saying you have a dislike/bias against FOX. There shouldn't be any disagreement over that, but in case there is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Good Lord!!! Over half the folks who responded get their news from decidedly biased news organizations that make no effort to present an objective picture of events.

That's a damn shame.
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Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Red:
  1. This one is neutral. You may think "biased" is negative. I think "biased" is neutral. The theists biased toward believing in God. atheists are biased toward disbelieving in God. You're the one who assigned an element of negativity to that statement, not me.
  1. You are referring to FOX as being biased. It doesn't matter whether you consider that to be a negative assessment; you are labeling an organization that everyone in America is familiar with and can judge for themselves.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
    Actually, MSNBC and Fox are the two that surprised me most. As far as I can tell, they are cut from the left and right sides of the same cloth.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
  2. I don't know what is negative at all about stating that one organization is simply the other side of a coin.
  3. Again, it doesn't matter whether you think this is a negative statement. You are classifying FOX and MSBNC as opposite ends of the extreme and you are "surprised" because you don't consider them (or at least FOX) to be credible news organizations. You don't say that in this quote but you certainly allude to that throughout your numerous responses.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
    This is why I really detest Fox. There really is just no limit to how far they will go to push a political agenda. Even MSNBC doesn't tip the scales as much and it's hardly an unbiased news network, but at least their retractions have not been related to political stories and opinion.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
  4. I definitely made a negative attestation about Fox in this statement. I also explained my reason for not liking Fox.
  5. Yet another statement that shows you have a dislike for FOX.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
    I know every news organization has at some time had to retract, but it sure seems a way of life at Fox. I'm not just talking about being duped by a hoax or selectively choosing to push a story that is from a dubious source, I'm talking about outright making stuff up, and for political purpose. It's one thing to just be wrong when citing some fact about a non-political topic. Mistakes happen to everyone in that regard.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
  6. Nothing negative or positive in this statement. I stated a fact. Fox has done exactly what I said. It's a fact. Do you think citing facts is the same thing as voicing a negative opinion? I don't.
  7. Several things here:
    a) Claiming that FOX doesn't retract false statements is not a fact, it's an opinion.
    b) This claim/assertion/hypothesis can certainly be levied against numerous news organizations, but the fact that you chose to levy it against FOX and only FOX again shows your dislike for that news group.
    c) This is very much a negative opinion of FOX. To call someone out for putting out misinformation shows that you have a negative perception of that individual/entity.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
    What's surprising, and disturbing, is that Fox only seems to do it with politics and issues that divide people. In and of themselves, sure, they are just mistakes like any other. But the fact is that mistakes of the sort Fox makes, repeatedly, are the kind that have their effect and do the damage they are meant to do regardless of whether/when they are later recanted. Far fewer folks see the retraction than saw the original misrepresentation
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
  8. Do you find the majority of Fox's mistakes and subsequent retractions pertain to political or non-political stories? Regardless of what you or I would answer to that question, the remainder of passage you cited says nothing about Fox. Moreover, the subject of that statement is about the impact of mistakes and that impact differs not regardless of what major new organization makes the error.
  9. Again this is an opinion/assertion that can be levied against numerous news groups, but you chose to focus exclusively on FOX. And yes, the entire passage is focused on FOX, because you at no point reference other news groups or the media in general.

    And even if you want to go with the argument that FOX is the only one that does this, this statement, at its core, still indicates that you have an issue with or dislike of FOX's actions.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
    Aside form sound bites presenting a biased viewpoint, I find it insulting for a news organization to presume that the audience doesn't need to know all the facts. Reporting news that way perniciously slants viewers' opinions and makes a new organization little more than a political megaphone for it's editors and owners. That sort of reporting demonstrates, IMO, a gross, not negligent for the folks involved are too intelligent for it to be just negligence, lack of integrity.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
  10. First off, Fox isn't mentioned at all. Second, the passage you cited pertains to how "sound bite" reporting omits relevant facts and it states my belief that to do that is insulting to the viewer. Yet again, if you think that statement pertains to Fox, that's your conjuration; it's not what I said.
FOX isn't mentioned, but who else could you be referring to when you say something like " I find it insulting for a news organization to presume that the audience doesn't need to know all the facts." FOX is the only group you have focused on up to this point, so when you make a statement like that, it's only logical to associate them with the opinion you are expressing here. No conjuration required for that one.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
To conclude, it's true I do not care for the management and practices of the Fox News organization because they just plain lied about the President of the United States. It's not in question that they lied. It's not in question that the lie occurred during a political commentary segment. So, yes, I had something negative to say about it, but it was well deserved. Every other comment that you cited shows me sharing my thoughts about industry wide practices and in none of them did I singularly lambaste Fox. In at least two, the subject I was discussing wasn't even the Fox New organization.
To conclude:
a) I would like to see the article/video where FOX lied about the president. I'm not interested in debating that issue with you, I genuinely don't know what you are referring to.
b) You do have a dislike for FOX which is extremely apparent in every post I have cited so far.
c) You admit to having negative things to say about FOX, but earlier tried to claim that you weren't overtly trying to make an argument for or against FOX.
d) Despite your statement in bold, you have had very little to say about industry-wide practices in the media. Even the statements that don't specifically mention FOX are alluding to them.

How do I know that? Because FOX is the only news group you have made specific arguments against.

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      04-17-2014, 02:05 PM   #53
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tony20009, in case you try to sidetrack this conversation yet again with another lengthy and unnecessary response, this statement below is what prompted my post above.

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??? Did I actually write that much about Fox one way or the other?
I really don't care if you dislike FOX or if you think they have zero credibility as news organization (and I suspect neither does anyone else on this forum). I am not here to debate that issue with you.

My only reasoning in posting responses is to show that you do in fact have a dislike and bias against FOX.
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      04-17-2014, 04:21 PM   #54
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My only reasoning in posting responses is to show that you do in fact have a dislike and bias against FOX.
In a similar vein, I explained the reasoning why many people share his perspective. It's different from other biased news sources. As run with an iron fist by Roger Ailes, it's not so much a news organization as it is a very well organized and managed propaganda machine for seriously conservative electoral candidates.

By the way, a smart guy here told me "...no amount of typing is going to change peoples' minds, especially on this forum."

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      04-17-2014, 07:09 PM   #55
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tony20009, also the percentages listed next to each of the news organizations don't add up to 100%.
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      04-17-2014, 07:56 PM   #56
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tony20009, also the percentages listed next to each of the news organizations don't add up to 100%.
People can check more than one.
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      04-17-2014, 09:13 PM   #57
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... I pointed out that most of your posts were indicating your dislike for FOX, either directly or indirectly. You've tried to defend yourself by claiming your statements weren't overtly negative.
I responded to what is a public misrepresentation of the facts. I made one and only one statement indicating I dislike fox. In the one post were I stated that, I also provided evidence of multiple instances where, like you, Fox has misrepresented the truth, and every single one of them pertained to a political or politically charged topic.

I have in this thread made two statements that show my dislike for Fox, and one of those two you have yet to reference. I'm not defending myself from anything other than your repeated efforts to twist my statements, their meanings and intents.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
I really don't care if you consider your statements negative or not, I'm just saying you have a dislike/bias against FOX. ...

Again, it doesn't matter whether you think this is a negative statement. You are classifying FOX and MSBNC as opposite ends of the extreme and you are "surprised" because you don't consider them (or at least FOX) to be credible news organizations. You don't say that in this quote but you certainly allude to that throughout your numerous responses.
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Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
...Objectivity, however, is important to only a few news, or so called, news organizations. I for one find MSNBC and Fox in the US to be mockeries of the term objective reporting. Both networks being essentially 24/7 versions of the Sunday morning political talk shows masquerading, for the benefit of folks who don't realize that editorial commentary is just nothing but opinions, as news...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
This is why I really detest Fox. ...
What is it you think surprised me?

You are correct, I don't like the Fox News organization's practices. I said that already. Post #15 makes that clear. The other statements I made, to the extent they apply to Fox, well, they just then do apply to Fox.

That I don't like Fox doesn't make my general statements about shoddy, sensationally inspired, biased reporting any more applicable to them that it does to MSNBC or any other news organization. You'd recall, if you had bothered to read thoroughly the opening post in this thread, that I specifically cited Fox and MSNBC as organizations that indulge in exactly the kind of so-called "reporting" I don't care for.

I have no issue at all with editorial commentary. I have an issue with editorial commentary presented as though it is news. I also have an issue with editorial commentary that manufactures and miscasts the truth in order to bolster the editorial opinion being offered.

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You are referring to FOX as being biased. It doesn't matter whether you consider that to be a negative assessment; you are labeling an organization that everyone in America is familiar with and can judge for themselves.
Very well, I'll ask you to share what your judgment is on the matter.
  • Do you think Fox is biased?
  • Are there other so-called news organizations you have observed misrepresenting political facts?
My answer to both those questions is "yes." I've stated as much.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
Several things here:
a) Claiming that FOX doesn't retract false statements is not a fact, it's an opinion.
b) This claim/assertion/hypothesis can certainly be levied against numerous news organizations, but the fact that you chose to levy it against FOX and only FOX again shows your dislike for that news group.
c) This is very much a negative opinion of FOX. To call someone out for putting out misinformation shows that you have a negative perception of that individual/entity.

Again this is an opinion/assertion that can be levied against numerous news groups, but you chose to focus exclusively on FOX. And yes, the entire passage is focused on FOX, because you at no point reference other news groups or the media in general.

And even if you want to go with the argument that FOX is the only one that does this, this statement, at its core, still indicates that you have an issue with or dislike of FOX's actions.
You and Fox appear to be cut from the same cloth insofar as you both seem keen to misrepresent reality. Where you differ is that when Fox is shown to have misrepresented the truth, they issue a retraction rather than inventing more distortions of facts.

Red:
I have not at any point said Fox doesn't retract. Instead, I cited multiple references showing that not only have Fox had to retract claims and inferences they made, but also that the majority of those retractions have to do with political stories.

Blue:
??? Say what? So one -- you, I, or someone else -- should not point out misstatements made by persons and entities for whom/which we have a positive opinion? Doing so is how one shows positivity or negativity?

Calling out an inaccuracy has nothing to do with liking or disliking an organization or person. It has to do with objectivity, which is exactly the point I opened this thread about, that is the lack of objectivity in modern news reporting.

Green:
I'm not certain which assertion following the quotes you are referring to.

FOX isn't mentioned, but who else could you be referring to when you say something like " I find it insulting for a news organization to presume that the audience doesn't need to know all the facts." FOX is the only group you have focused on up to this point, so when you make a statement like that, it's only logical to associate them with the opinion you are expressing here. No conjuration required for that one.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
...

To conclude:
a) I would like to see the article/video where FOX lied about the president. I'm not interested in debating that issue with you, I genuinely don't know what you are referring to.
...
Despite your statement in bold, you have had very little to say about industry-wide practices in the media. Even the statements that don't specifically mention FOX are alluding to them. How do I know that? Because FOX is the only news group you have made specific arguments against.
Red:
So now the truth comes out...clearly you didn't fully read at least one of the posts you are using to make some of your claims. The two links I provided identify a specific story (there is video included at the first link) wherein Fox outright lied about the President's actions.

Because you asked for more evidence, I bid you read the content below (the story found at the links, not the links themselves). I don't know which of them Fox actually retracted. Please refrain from using my posting the references below to support your implied claim that I"m singling out Fox; the only reason I've offered them is because you asked for examples. Call me "Toyota." You asked for it, you got it!
Blue:
??? What? Why should I have anything to say about industry wide practices beyond what I said in my opening post? I will ask you, please show us any legitimate news organization that reaches the levels of absolute idiocy and bias that Fox does.
  • Creating something political from something that for hundreds of years has not been political:
  • Fox outright lying:
    . You can see in the first couple minutes that liberals aren't always the most well informed folks, but really, I can live with someone not knowing the difference between "junior" and "the second."
Do liberally focused news organizations use their bullhorn to promote agendas aside from straight reporting of facts? Yes, they do. Perhaps even the personalities on networks like MSNBC and other liberal outlets make up facts to promote Democratic ideas. I haven't seen any that do so as frequently and as outrageously as Fox does. If you want to know why I specifically cited Fox, and not anyone else, it's because I don't know any other mainstream news or "news" organization that is really comparable.

As I stated at the outset of this thread, I appreciate objective reporting. Objectivity is compromised many ways. One of those ways is to selectively present facts, another way it to ignorantly or deliberately take them out of context, and yet another is to fabricate facts that don't exist. Fox uses all three methods all the content at the links above shows.

Is it any wonder that I pointed out references regarding Fox? If anyone wants to cite examples of un-objectivity, Fox provides literally hundreds of them. I don't care for non-contextual portrayals (which is what you are doing with my earlier statements). I don't care for lying news, or so-called news, people. And I don't care for "spin." It is true that I don't care for Fox, but referencing them has to do with the ease with which I can find fitting examples that illustrate my opening post's points. Not because I don't like Fox.

All the best.
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      04-17-2014, 09:22 PM   #58
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tony20009, in case you try to sidetrack this conversation yet again with another lengthy and unnecessary response, this statement below is what prompted my post above.

I really don't care if you dislike FOX or if you think they have zero credibility as news organization (and I suspect neither does anyone else on this forum). I am not here to debate that issue with you.

My only reasoning in posting responses is to show that you do in fact have a dislike and bias against FOX.
And what exactly prompted you to tell me essentially to "move on" and discuss something else in the thread I created to discuss new organizations and their lack of objectivity?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know you weren't showing anything to which I hadn't already admitted. In post #15, I specifically said I don't like Fox. There was and is no need for you do anything to prove that point for I had averred as much long before you attempted to prove that point.

What you did do, however, is identify a slew of statements I made that have nothing to do with Fox specifically, unless one, you, choose to apply them to Fox. That's your doing, not my assertion.

All the best.
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      04-17-2014, 09:39 PM   #59
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You are correct, I don't like the Fox News organization's practices.
I said that you clearly have a dislike for Fox News...you agree with me. So you and I have reached an agreement.

Everything else you have written above (to be honest I didn't bother reading it) is irrelevant to the point that I made.

Thank you for finally providing closure to this intense yet intellectual conversation.

All the best.
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      04-18-2014, 10:33 PM   #60
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I get my news from Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert.
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      05-21-2014, 10:52 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
I said that you clearly have a dislike for Fox News...you agree with me. So you and I have reached an agreement.

Everything else you have written above (to be honest I didn't bother reading it) is irrelevant to the point that I made.

Thank you for finally providing closure to this intense yet intellectual conversation.

All the best.
What were you hoping to accomplish by proving this point? So he doesn't like Fox News...ok...
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      05-21-2014, 10:57 PM   #62
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What were you hoping to accomplish by proving this point? So he doesn't like Fox News...ok...
I wasn't trying to prove anything other than the fact that he didn't like Fox. Read his earlier posts and you'll see he was trying to claim he was neutral on the subject...or don't read his posts...you're bringing up a dead thread and I really could care less about your opinion on this issue.
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      05-22-2014, 12:38 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
I wasn't trying to prove anything other than the fact that he didn't like Fox. Read his earlier posts and you'll see he was trying to claim he was neutral on the subject...or don't read his posts...you're bringing up a dead thread and I really could care less about your opinion on this issue.
Personally, I'm surprised a guy who reads the Wall Street Journal and the Economist doesn't see Fox as the blatant propaganda mill that they are. Everyone on air, possibly excepting O'Reilly, is pretty much a megaphone for Roger Ailes. They thoroughly deserve Tony20009's disdain, and John Stewart's ridicule. Good book on this:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Loudest-Vo...ce+in+the+room

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      05-22-2014, 01:53 PM   #64
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Personally, I'm surprised a guy who reads the Wall Street Journal and the Economist doesn't see Fox as the blatant propaganda mill that they are. Everyone on air, possibly excepting O'Reilly, is pretty much a megaphone for Roger Ailes. They thoroughly deserve Tony20009's disdain, and John Stewart's ridicule. Good book on this:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Loudest-Vo...ce+in+the+room
I have acknowledged numerous times on this forum that Fox is a biased media outlet. I don't have a problem with Fox's bias because I know what to expect from them. I do have a problem with numerous other Media outlets, to include MSNBC, and political pundits/satirists (including Stewart and Colbert) who propagate the false narrative that Fox is the only biased network worthy of condemnation.

Their ultimate hypocrisy is that while they criticize Fox, perhaps in some instances rightly so, they ignore their own bias (yes Stewart has a bias, even though he tries to portray himself as the politically neutral comedian).

And if you think that Fox News and other conservative groups are the only ones who get money from people like Rodger Alies, you are extremely naive and ignorant.

As I have said before 128Convertibleguy, I am more than willing to acknowledge that the Republican party and conservative groups/media networks have a laundry list of problems and moral inconsistencies. I have yet to hear any acknowledgement from either you or other like-minded people that there are major issues with the Democratic party and liberal media/pundits.
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      05-23-2014, 08:37 AM   #65
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As I have said before 128Convertibleguy, I am more than willing to acknowledge that the Republican party and conservative groups/media networks have a laundry list of problems and moral inconsistencies. I have yet to hear any acknowledgement from either you or other like-minded people that there are major issues with the Democratic party and liberal media/pundits.
I don't understand how you can say that. I've said this before. MSNBC is equally biased in the other direction. But to equate the two is an excellent example of the false equivalence that permeates so much analysis today.

The difference is, MSNBC is not organized propaganda. MSNBC hires liberal/progressive people, and, by and large, turns them loose. Roger Ailes dictates the message to Fox personnel, most of who exhibit no real personal convictions (again, O'Reilly excepted), and they repeat it endlessly. Often using exactly the same words. Often in ridiculous contexts.

That makes Fox unique among large media sources. It also makes them less interesting, less illuminative, and more sinister than other media sources. I'm not questioning their right to do this, I'm questioning whether any intelligent person should look to them for news. Or facts of any kind. It's hard to separate facts and the message.

That's one thing the Wall Street Journal excels in. The separation between reporting and opinion is crystal clear. They're an excellent source for news from a conservative perspective. As The New Republic is for news from a liberal perspective. Or the Economist for moderates. There are ample serious sources, of whatever stripe, for serious people.

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      05-23-2014, 01:55 PM   #66
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The difference is, MSNBC is not organized propaganda. MSNBC hires liberal/progressive people, and, by and large, turns them loose.
I think it suffices to say that you and i are never going to see eye-to-eye on that issue. I see political agenda and "propaganda" as you call it in MSNBC, especially in its pundits like Maddow and Matthews, as I do in Fox.
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