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      03-13-2014, 10:53 PM   #45
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Another C6Z? ;-) Those cars are money in the bank. I know the C7 is better by most standards, but it's not the car people will lust after 20 years from now. I'd bet a good sum that the C6Z will be worth more than the C7Z. It fits into the E30 M3, air cooled 911, AE86, GT3 etc. bucket for me.

Also, I see BMWs all day long and I daily a nice low mile E46 M3. The interiors are far from amazing and I see stupid quality issues in just about every BMW I sit it, my own car included. I still love them (duh) but I would NEVER get into an interior debate with a BMW as my 'good' example. I drove my 2005 TL from 15k to 130k miles and the interior had less wear than my 05 M3 with 50k miles. I used to lug people and stuff around in that TL every week as well....it was not babied at all.
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      03-13-2014, 10:56 PM   #46
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Um, no. BMW and Merc are not priced higher than GM cars because they are "better", they are priced higher because they have a badge that posers and snobs are willing to pay top dollar for. And dude, what kind of garbage are you smoking? A C7 aluminum frame is different but "not better" than an M3/M4 steel frame?

Who said that? Did I? No. Please if you're going to debate something, don't add things to the discussion that don't exist. It makes you look very foolish. By the way, isn't the M3 a unibody?


An aluminum frame is racing technology. Just about the only thing better would have been a carbon fibre frame like a Mp4-12C, but the cost in that case would be prohibitive. Aluminum frames are just as strong as a steel equivalent while being significantly lighter and also having the benefit of being corrosion resistant. There are basically no downsides to aluminum other than cost, and that's the only reason why it isn't more widely used. For the reference, Ferrari also uses aluminum frames on their cars too.

A little lesson for you. The steal frame is stronger, the Aluminum frame is stiffer and better in crash testing. Big difference.

Anyone can grab a run of the mill plain jane family car, drop a V8 in it, give it some stiffer suspension, and call it a day. That's what the likes of M3, C63, ISF, CTS-V are. It's a whole different beast altogether to create a bespoke purpose-built sports car platform from the ground up with the intention of performance and driving experience, and basing that platform on decades of racing technology to the point that some of the components of that car are almost identical to the ones used in the race car. It's even more impressive when all that is offered at a price point that any reasonably successful middle class person can afford; a price point that any average 3 series or C class can comfortably exceed.
I have to ask, if you hate the m3 so much, why are you here? I'm a bit curious about that, but you seem to pit the vette right up against the m3 at every given opportunity. They are not rivals. They are completely different cars. I was showing a comparison of why the m3 is more expensive than the vette due to better materials. Especially when you compare the 2013 vette to the 2013 m3.
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      03-13-2014, 11:26 PM   #47
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I have to ask, if you hate the m3 so much, why are you here? I'm a bit curious about that, but you seem to pit the vette right up against the m3 at every given opportunity. They are not rivals. They are completely different cars. I was showing a comparison of why the m3 is more expensive than the vette due to better materials. Especially when you compare the 2013 vette to the 2013 m3.
You still don't get it, do you? The M3 is not more expensive than the Corvette because of "better materials". It is more expensive because of a more prestigious badge. BMW can line the interior of an M3 with walmart quality vinyl and they will still be able to sell it at a higher price than a Corvette. You can't possibly expect me to believe that the so-called "better materials" in an M3 are the reason for a whopping $25000 price premium over a Corvette.
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      03-13-2014, 11:34 PM   #48
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You still don't get it, do you? The M3 is not more expensive than the Corvette because of "better materials". It is more expensive because of a more prestigious badge. BMW can line the interior of an M3 with walmart quality vinyl and they will still be able to sell it at a higher price than a Corvette. You can't possibly expect me to believe that the so-called "better materials" in an M3 are the reason for a whopping $25000 price premium over a Corvette.
Well I have owned a vette and raced others, so I guess I have no idea what I am taking about.
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      03-14-2014, 01:10 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
You still don't get it, do you? The M3 is not more expensive than the Corvette because of "better materials". It is more expensive because of a more prestigious badge. BMW can line the interior of an M3 with walmart quality vinyl and they will still be able to sell it at a higher price than a Corvette. You can't possibly expect me to believe that the so-called "better materials" in an M3 are the reason for a whopping $25000 price premium over a Corvette.
i would say its both prestigious badge AND better in some quality ways.

there is without a doubt more luxury in a BMW M5 than a new C7 Z06. you are going to more expensive parts found in a M5 that a Z06.

sure there is some prestigious to BMW. but people like prestigious. not going to lie i love walking into a BMW dealership. you FEEL like you are buying something better than a chevy. some people are into that stuff.
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      03-14-2014, 02:17 AM   #50
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Ill take that over what I went though on my car. All day long. What year is this car btw?
Doesn't matter. All BMW steering wheels do that after a few years. The trim is complete sh*t, known problem with all models. Shifter knob, trim around start button, seat bolster, are all know to wear as well. You will soon be welcome to BMW ownership. Hope you plan on getting a M3 with a warranty, rod bearing issue is once again a problem with the E9x generation M3's. I have owned 12 BMW's with some Audi's and Benz's sprinkled in the mix. I drive BMW's because they offer the best driving experience, not because of the interiors. They are some worst interiors that come out of Germany.

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      03-14-2014, 02:23 AM   #51
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You still don't get it, do you? The M3 is not more expensive than the Corvette because of "better materials". It is more expensive because of a more prestigious badge. BMW can line the interior of an M3 with walmart quality vinyl and they will still be able to sell it at a higher price than a Corvette. You can't possibly expect me to believe that the so-called "better materials" in an M3 are the reason for a whopping $25000 price premium over a Corvette.
He raced Vettes...he knows all. Actual owners of M3's opinions don't mean sh*t.
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      03-14-2014, 03:59 AM   #52
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C7 Z51 with MRC or M4, not digging the C7 Z06 that much for some reason.

Or maybe just a 528i and a BRZ?
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      03-17-2014, 08:08 AM   #53
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Doesn't matter. All BMW steering wheels do that after a few years. The trim is complete sh*t, known problem with all models. Shifter knob, trim around start button, seat bolster, are all know to wear as well. You will soon be welcome to BMW ownership. Hope you plan on getting a M3 with a warranty, rod bearing issue is once again a problem with the E9x generation M3's. I have owned 12 BMW's with some Audi's and Benz's sprinkled in the mix. I drive BMW's because they offer the best driving experience, not because of the interiors. They are some worst interiors that come out of Germany.
I've been around BMWs since the late '70s; drove my 1st E21 320i in 1977, wrenched on my Brother's '82 E21, and I've driven every 3-er chassis in one form or another. The only 3-er I've not put a wrench to is an E46. I owned a 1989 E30 for 18 years, and currently own a '97 Z3 (worst interior of a car I've ever owned - hideous), and my '06 E90. In the '80s BMW interiors were nothing near high quality in craftsmanship (fit and finish), but they did offer superior ergonomics that enhanced the "Ultimate Driving Machine" experience. The recent E90 and F30 are no better and offer less ergonomics than their forbearers, with the quality just about the same - except the stereos are better sounding and don't die after 50,000 miles. The materials used in the early 1st gen Z3 and US-built E36s were terrible; once the plastic was set in place, touching it meant breaking it - ugh.

BMWs used to be about driving dynamics and everything else about them was peripheral. The other manufacturers have caught up to BMW in driving dynamics; well maybe not at 9/10ths and 10/10ths street driving, but consumers don't often go there anyway. But other manufacturers offer far better interior experiences and have over BMW as far as I can remember, so talking about the comparative quality of interiors as a decision point for buying a BMW in this day and age is a bit of a joke IMO.
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      03-17-2014, 09:26 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Petros View Post
You still don't get it, do you? The M3 is not more expensive than the Corvette because of "better materials". It is more expensive because of a more prestigious badge. BMW can line the interior of an M3 with walmart quality vinyl and they will still be able to sell it at a higher price than a Corvette. You can't possibly expect me to believe that the so-called "better materials" in an M3 are the reason for a whopping $25000 price premium over a Corvette.
I think the C7 vette is a great car and has a ton of very expensive race materials in its chassis design and on the Z51 package one of the best suspensions period right now, making it a better sports car than the M3/4 , but not necessarily a better car all the way around (we need to drive the M3/4 first). The cost argument needs to go away though, as a (M4 equivalent features , interior and performance) 3LT Z51 equipped C7 is 70k out the door. If the M4 really does weigh 33xx pounds with DCT it WILL be faster in a straight line than the C7 vette, but the vette is a much more trackable platform and has TONS of modding potential out of the box , which The M3/M4 will not. Competition is a good thing and I'm glad to see chevy put out a much improved C7 platform, as it will make everyone step up their game.
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      03-17-2014, 10:42 AM   #55
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I have owned vets in the past, and test drove a stock C7. I would never buy another vette. The M4 will be the better car, Period. The vette may be faster but if speed is all you're worried about, than get it. But the M4 like the M3 will drive better, it's built a lot better and doesn't feel cheap. The vette feels cheap because it's built that way. Plus the rear end of the new vette is pretty bad IMHO.
Not sure what you are smoking; but the C7 vette along with the 2015 mustang look brilliant, and this coming from a guy who hates US made crap.
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