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      02-09-2014, 11:45 AM   #1
Sebringjetta
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How Long Are Your Oem Rotors Lasting?????

ok track junkies how long are your oem rotors lasting...i put on a set of rotors 3 laguna track days ago and the heat cracks are already making me concerned...im currently working on a cooling kit but wanted to pick your brains...thank you in advance.....
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      02-09-2014, 01:01 PM   #2
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Heat cracks around holes are normal, which is one of the reasons racers prefer slotted rotors (though they eat pads faster). I'm still on my original set of rear rotors after 26K miles overall including 18 track days. I got a StopTech BBK on the front a while ago though so I can't help you there.

Just keep an eye out for deep cracks (especially those not emanating from a hole) and buy a micrometer so you can check rotor thickness periodically if you'll be tracking often, which I assume you will be if you're installing brake ducting. Another brake cooling option would be aftermarket rotors with better cooling (directional vanes, two-piece design, etc); I believe there are options that install on the OEM brake setup.
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      02-09-2014, 01:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Heat cracks around holes are normal, which is one of the reasons racers prefer slotted (though they eat pads faster). I'm still on my original set of rear rotors after 26K miles overall including 18 track days. I got a StopTech BBK on the front a while ago though so I can't help you there.

Just keep an eye out for deep cracks (especially those not emanating from a hole) and buy a micrometer so you can check rotor thickness periodically if you'll be tracking often, which I assume you will be if you're installing brake ducting. Another brake cooling option would be aftermarket rotors with better cooling (directional vanes and such); I believe there are options that install on the OEM brake setup.
ill take a pic tonight and see what your opinion is....i plan on going to bbk in the next few months...im getting my cage done this month so have to wait until next month for brakes...the thickness is fine there is not eve a lip but the cracks are the biggest concern....

there are aftermarket rotors for oem brakes for the e92?????????? more info o that please!!!!!!
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      02-09-2014, 01:12 PM   #4
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If you're going with a cage too you're clearly at a point where a front BBK is warranted, in which case the rotors will take care of themselves. I'll try to find more about the OE replacement rotors (I remember Mike Benvo and The Tech worked on something with a supplier....), but honestly if a BBK is in your future then you can leave the rear stock and be totally fine.
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      02-09-2014, 01:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
If you're going with a cage too you're clearly at a point where a front BBK is warranted, in which case the rotors will take care of themselves. I'll try to find more about the OE replacement rotors (I remember Mike Benvo and The Tech worked on something with a supplier....), but honestly if a BBK is in your future then you can leave the rear stock and be totally fine.
im going to do front and rear at the same time....i get a better deal if i do front and rears at the same time through my vendor...im going to do stoptech...just need to decide on trophy or st60....
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      02-09-2014, 01:26 PM   #6
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Found it: http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...-M3-p/2161.htm

No information about it though. But once you buy the full rotor kit once, from then on you only need to buy the friction ring, which should be a decent savings since those aluminum hats aren't cheap.
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      02-09-2014, 01:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebringjetta
im going to do front and rear at the same time....i get a better deal if i do front and rears at the same time through my vendor...im going to do stoptech...just need to decide on trophy or st60....
StopTech's own site argues against rear BBKs FYI: http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...brake-upgrades

Lots of race cars leave the rear setup stock. Unless you're full-on racing, I don't see the point of the Trophy kit -- and if you ARE racing, you want Trophy Race (no dust boots) rather than the Trophy Sport kit most vendors sell.

I can understand you'd get a bigger discount going front and rear together, but I doubt it'd be cheaper than just doing the front....

You may also want to look into the Essex BBK: http://www.essexparts.com/shop/compl...m3-bundle.html. They only have a front kit though, but that should tell you something. And I can see their anti-knockback feature being helpful based on the knockback I've recently gotten fast enough to encounter with my StopTech kit.
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      02-09-2014, 01:48 PM   #8
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thank you for all the info!!!!!!!!!!!!
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      02-09-2014, 01:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebringjetta
thank you for all the info!!!!!!!!!!!!
You bet! I made some edits to my above posts, and feel free to PM if you want to talk more.
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      02-09-2014, 02:28 PM   #10
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You bet! I made some edits to my above posts, and feel free to PM if you want to talk more.
I SURE WILL AND THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN!!!!!!!
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      02-09-2014, 07:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
StopTech's own site argues against rear BBKs FYI: http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...brake-upgrades

Lots of race cars leave the rear setup stock. Unless you're full-on racing, I don't see the point of the Trophy kit -- and if you ARE racing, you want Trophy Race (no dust boots) rather than the Trophy Sport kit most vendors sell.

I can understand you'd get a bigger discount going front and rear together, but I doubt it'd be cheaper than just doing the front....
I'm sorry, you're wrong. Re-read the article and let's consider Stoptech's perspective. Stoptech sells BBKs that can integrate into the OEM system as a front only or a 4 wheel kit. That's their "thing". What that tells me is their front kit is a compromise from what it could be since they do not want to throw off the bias.

And then that is a very general statement about cars.

In a corvette with a 335 rear Hoosier R6 and a 275 front R6? Yeah, the extra tire in the rear will help slow the car down.

In a BMW with a 20mm stagger? The Stoptech article would lead me to believe that there is more of a benefit in a rear BBK in a BMW than a Corvette. Because the rear brakes would be working harder relative to the front because there is less relative braking advantage because the stagger is less. Oh, let's not forget that most of us upgrade to a square tire setup. So there is even less braking effect from the sticky tires relative to the front axle. Suspension design?

But can I take this BMW argument and apply it to a Porsche? Probably not. Being a rear engine car has no bearing on braking? The weight distribution significantly changes a variable in the general calculations. How about all wheel drive? Front wheel drive? To think of a braking system as pads, rotors, calipers, fluid and pedal...that's a little short sighted.

I see that article as a marketing slogan touting what makes a Stoptech BBK "better" than others. Better is very relative.
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      02-09-2014, 08:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
I'm sorry, you're wrong. Re-read the article and let's consider Stoptech's perspective. Stoptech sells BBKs that can integrate into the OEM system as a front only or a 4 wheel kit. That's their "thing". What that tells me is their front kit is a compromise from what it could be since they do not want to throw off the bias.

And then that is a very general statement about cars.

In a corvette with a 335 rear Hoosier R6 and a 275 front R6? Yeah, the extra tire in the rear will help slow the car down.

In a BMW with a 20mm stagger? The Stoptech article would lead me to believe that there is more of a benefit in a rear BBK in a BMW than a Corvette. Because the rear brakes would be working harder relative to the front because there is less relative braking advantage because the stagger is less. Oh, let's not forget that most of us upgrade to a square tire setup. So there is even less braking effect from the sticky tires relative to the front axle. Suspension design?

But can I take this BMW argument and apply it to a Porsche? Probably not. Being a rear engine car has no bearing on braking? The weight distribution significantly changes a variable in the general calculations. How about all wheel drive? Front wheel drive? To think of a braking system as pads, rotors, calipers, fluid and pedal...that's a little short sighted.

I see that article as a marketing slogan touting what makes a Stoptech BBK "better" than others. Better is very relative.
Fair enough. In that case my revised take would be that if you DO have a setup that causes you to experience fade on the rear brakes, then by all means get a rear BBK. But to assume that you MUST get a rear BBK just because you got a front BBK or that a rear BBK will deliver a guaranteed benefit on any setup is flawed logic.
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      02-09-2014, 08:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I'm sorry, you're wrong. Re-read the article and let's consider Stoptech's perspective. Stoptech sells BBKs that can integrate into the OEM system as a front only or a 4 wheel kit. That's their "thing". What that tells me is their front kit is a compromise from what it could be since they do not want to throw off the bias.

And then that is a very general statement about cars.

In a corvette with a 335 rear Hoosier R6 and a 275 front R6? Yeah, the extra tire in the rear will help slow the car down.

In a BMW with a 20mm stagger? The Stoptech article would lead me to believe that there is more of a benefit in a rear BBK in a BMW than a Corvette. Because the rear brakes would be working harder relative to the front because there is less relative braking advantage because the stagger is less. Oh, let's not forget that most of us upgrade to a square tire setup. So there is even less braking effect from the sticky tires relative to the front axle. Suspension design?

But can I take this BMW argument and apply it to a Porsche? Probably not. Being a rear engine car has no bearing on braking? The weight distribution significantly changes a variable in the general calculations. How about all wheel drive? Front wheel drive? To think of a braking system as pads, rotors, calipers, fluid and pedal...that's a little short sighted.

I see that article as a marketing slogan touting what makes a Stoptech BBK "better" than others. Better is very relative.
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      02-10-2014, 02:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebringjetta View Post
ok track junkies how long are your oem rotors lasting...i put on a set of rotors 3 laguna track days ago and the heat cracks are already making me concerned...im currently working on a cooling kit but wanted to pick your brains...thank you in advance.....
Crack wise, just watch to make sure the cracks do not go from hole to hole. From my experience the OEM rotors should last a pretty long time assuming you do not have hardcore pads.
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      02-10-2014, 06:08 PM   #15
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I have been getting 20 - 25 track days out of my OEM ones ( with Pagid yellows). I get about 70% through the thickness spec and then I don't the the level of cracks that appear...

On my 3rd set.
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      02-10-2014, 09:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Crack wise, just watch to make sure the cracks do not go from hole to hole. From my experience the OEM rotors should last a pretty long time assuming you do not have hardcore pads.
Im running pfc08
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      02-10-2014, 09:40 PM   #17
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I had a hard time wearing out my oem rotors even with race pads. They're definitely not the weak link in the system.
The weak link for me was overheated / seized caliper seals. (The pfc01's didn't fade, the motul fluid didn't boil, the braided lines didn't melt, and the rotors didn't explode). Be careful using those oem components on track.
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      02-10-2014, 10:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebringjetta View Post
Im running pfc08
I'm running those in my StopTech BBK (with StopTech Street Performance pads in the stock rear brake setup on both street and track), and they're known to be gentler on rotors than the balls-to-the-wall PFC 01s, not to mention Hawk compounds that eat rotors for breakfast. I'm not sure how MUCH gentler, but as far as race pads go I'd say you made a good choice for rotor longevity -- and pad longevity and overall performance IMHO based on my experience.
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      02-10-2014, 10:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I had a hard time wearing out my oem rotors even with race pads. They're definitely not the weak link in the system.
The weak link for me was overheated / seized caliper seals. (The pfc01's didn't fade, the motul fluid didn't boil, the braided lines didn't melt, and the rotors didn't explode). Be careful using those oem components on track.
What happens when piston seals overheat/seize? Do you just get sudden brake failure out on track when you were counting on being able to actually make that turn that's now coming up all too fast, or is there a process that gives you some warning? Do you get clued in with observable brake fluid leaks before you'd experience brake failure?
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      02-11-2014, 12:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
What happens when piston seals overheat/seize? Do you just get sudden brake failure out on track when you were counting on being able to actually make that turn that's now coming up all too fast, or is there a process that gives you some warning? Do you get clued in with observable brake fluid leaks before you'd experience brake failure?
interested....
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      02-11-2014, 12:23 PM   #21
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Rear rotors last forever even with race pads! Fronts can take a tremendous beating.

Running a front BBK because pads were cheaper over time (not to mention better performance).
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      02-11-2014, 03:17 PM   #22
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Fronts changed at 20,40 and 70K
Rears at 50K

Averaging 6 track days/year in advanced or advanced mediocre groups depending on club.
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