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      01-19-2014, 08:28 PM   #1
///Mcrazy
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Unhappy Just got a crazy repair estimate from my dealer, what to do!?!?

So my 2008 e93 m3 was making some bad noises under throttle and the car reported a dsc malfunction for about a week. When my appointment day came, I took the car in and a day later recieved an estimate for repair. Keep in mind that I never crashed this car, but it is possible that it did hit a pothole like the SA suggested although I never noticed one. Seems like a lot of damage for a pothole...

Anyway, the email is below, and I am wondering if there are better ways to go about this repair. If I go through insurance, will my car have an accident on the title? Are there any bodyshops that can repair this at the same level of quality for significantly less? Also, what tires would you guys reccomend for the m3 (mainly a summer car) because I don't feel like spending $1850 on tires that aren't the best ones I could have on it. I don't care about the $850 idrive charge because the only part of it that is broken is the knob, so I won't be getting that fixed. My main issues are what to do about the suspension, and what tires you guys would reccomend instead of the ones the dealership will end up putting on. Any reputable or quality bodyshops in the NY/long island area would also be useful information.
Email below


$ 83 standard scope inspection (already approved & done)
83 vehicle service check (done)
250 brake fluid flush (done)
280 microfilter (done)

3300 rear suspension--impact damage & several components are damaged/bent ^^
including both upper & lower control arms, spindle, wheel bearing, flange for bearing, axle nut, guide rod, wishbone, etc…
3800 front suspension--same as above--impact damage & several components damaged/bent ^^
including L/F strut (leaking)-but need to replace both L/F & R/F as a pair, guide support, etc…
> NOTE -- will need to fix both front & rear suspension components above, perform alignment, and then recheck for possible further problem(s) *****
165 inspection/diagnosis for traction control light on -- will still need to double check this after all suspension components above are replaced
(might be related)
1850 4 tires (both rear tires are bald, below minimum safety tread depth/specs, L/F tire has bubble in sidewall, R/F worn on inner edge)
200 4-wheel alignment
850 iDrive controller (broken)
300 clean fuel injectors (helps remove carbon build up) **

$ 11,161 total (+ tax + recheck -- see NOTE above)


^^ NOTE -- for bent/damaged front & rear suspension -- I would recommend that you contact your insurance company (pothole impact damage) -- they should cover these items. **********
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      01-19-2014, 08:30 PM   #2
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Sounds insane. The iDrive controller is about $200 brand new for starters..
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      01-19-2014, 08:35 PM   #3
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I would take to either a different dealer or a trusted independent shop for a second opinion.
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      01-19-2014, 08:41 PM   #4
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It's posts like this that makes me question the decision to keep this car beyond warranty The car would sell for 40 grand give or take and a repair bill that is more than 25% of its value is insane.
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      01-19-2014, 08:41 PM   #5
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Ouch! That must have been one hell of a pothole you went over to do over $3K of damage to both your front and rear suspension. You could always do some research on trusted indy shops in your area and get a second opinion. I can't speak for your dealer, but my wife's Mini dealer recommended a bunch of suspension work (while it was in for recall service) and when I took it to my trusted indy shop, he said it was basically total BS. Yes, TECHNICALLY the issues they mentioned existed (torn lower control arm bushings, a hairline crack on upper strut mounts), but the wear was simply what you'd expect from a part that wasn't brand new, not bad enough to warrant replacement. The same could be true here.

In terms of the consequences of going through insurance, I'm not sure whether single car accidents that don't involve collisions end up on your record. Then again, I'm not sure going through insurance even makes a difference in that regard; I think even if you pay out of pocket, the shop doing the work reports on work done due to accidents, and again I don't know if they differentiate between collisions and accidents. That's how places like CarFax get their data if I'm not mistaken -- but I certainly could be.

$280 for a cabin microfilter job seems pretty insane. The labor is pretty easy (see here), and the parts aren't that expensive either....

$1850 for tires is a bit crazy even including installation cost. They're also probably going to install Michelin PS2s (since they're OEM) rather than the better-in-every-way-and-cheaper Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Get the latter from Tire Rack ($1104 for 19" at the moment) and have them shipped directly to one of their recommended installers, who will then call you to set up an appointment when they arrive. And on a related note, keep an eye on your tires, dude! Don't let your tires go bald like that, and a bubble on a tire is a major safety hazard! Maintain your vehicle for your own safety and that of others. I'm surprised the inside of your FRONT tire wore before the outside though. My fronts wear on the outsides first and the rears wear on the insides. You must not be cornering nearly aggressively enough.

And CLEANING FUEL INJECTORS TO PREVENT CARBON BUILDUP?!?!? That's something that 335i's get, not M3s!! First, unless you're using crappy gas (rather than Chevron/Shell, for example), there's absolutely no reason you should need fuel injector cleaning service. Second, carbon buildup occurs on direct injection engines (which the M3 is not) and occurred on the E39 M5 because of a design issue which the E9x M3 doesn't share. That's a pure profit item at lots of dealers and is completely stupid, ESPECIALLY on an E9x M3. If you're actually worried about it, put some injector cleaning additive like Techron into your tank every ~6 months and call it a day, but I'd question whether even that would deliver a benefit.

I also like how they have 3 separate inspection fees: standard scope, vehicle check, and the DSC light -- with a note that the last one might have to be done again after the rest of the work is completed.
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      01-19-2014, 08:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTDude View Post
It's posts like this that makes me question the decision to keep this car beyond warranty The car would sell for 40 grand give or take and a repair bill that is more than 25% of its value is insane.
Well as the dealer indicated, this would be the cost without insurance, and this incident sounds pretty severe -- assuming it's legit in the first place. But this is accident-level repairs, not maintenance or even typical repairs. Those are always expensive, especially when performed at a dealer, but they're also typically offset by insurance. If you end up selling your M3 for $40K and adding another $30K or so to purchase a new M3, that's not exactly cheaper. Sure you have a new car out of the deal, but I seriously doubt you'd end up ahead on money overall, or even value per dollar overall. In most situations buying a new M3 would leave you with a monthly payment that would easily be as much as a typical M3 repair bill, and the latter would definitely NOT occur every month.
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      01-19-2014, 09:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Ouch! That must have been one hell of a pothole you went over to do over $3K of damage to both your front and rear suspension. You could always do some research on trusted indy shops in your area and get a second opinion. I can't speak for your dealer, but my wife's Mini dealer recommended a bunch of suspension work (while it was in for recall service) and when I took it to my trusted indy shop, he said it was basically total BS. Yes, TECHNICALLY the issues they mentioned existed (torn lower control arm bushings, a hairline crack on upper strut mounts), but the wear was simply what you'd expect from a part that wasn't brand new, not bad enough to warrant replacement. The same could be true here.

In terms of the consequences of going through insurance, I'm not sure whether single car accidents that don't involve collisions end up on your record. Then again, I'm not sure going through insurance even makes a difference in that regard; I think even if you pay out of pocket, the shop doing the work reports on work done due to accidents, and again I don't know if they differentiate between collisions and accidents. That's how places like CarFax get their data if I'm not mistaken -- but I certainly could be.

$280 for a cabin microfilter job seems pretty insane. I don't think it's much labor to get there, and the part itself isn't anywhere near that expensive either....

$1850 for tires is a bit crazy even including installation cost. They're also probably going to install Michelin PS2s (since they're OEM) rather than the better-in-every-way-and-cheaper Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Get the latter from Tire Rack ($1104 for 19" at the moment) and have them shipped directly to one of their recommended installers, who will then call you to set up an appointment when they arrive. And on a related note, keep an eye on your tires, dude! Don't let your tires go bald like that, and a bubble on a tire is a major safety hazard! Maintain your vehicle for your own safety and that of others. I'm surprised the inside of your FRONT tire wore before the outside though. My fronts wear on the outsides first and the rears wear on the insides. You must not be cornering nearly aggressively enough.

And CLEANING FUEL INJECTORS TO PREVENT CARBON BUILDUP?!?!? That's something that 335i's get, not M3s!! First, unless you're using crappy gas (rather than Chevron/Shell, for example), there's absolutely no reason you should need fuel injector cleaning service. Second, carbon buildup occurs on direct injection engines (which the M3 is not) and occurred on the E39 M5 because of a design issue which the E9x M3 doesn't share. That's a pure profit item at lots of dealers and is completely stupid, ESPECIALLY on an E9x M3. If you're actually worried about it, put some injector cleaning additive like Techron into your tank every ~6 months and call it a day, but I'd question whether even that would deliver a benefit.

I also like how they have 3 separate inspection fees: standard scope, vehicle check, and the DSC light -- with a note that the last one might have to be done again after the rest of the work is completed.
The crazy thing is, I don't recall ever going over a pothole at all, and definitely not one that would require a new front and back suspension.

Thanks for the tire advice, are those the best tires to have for a summer (and rarely winter) car? I thought those prices were outrageous.

How much should an alignment cost, and should I get it done at a BMW dealer?

I have been using premium gas at every station I have been to, so I wont be going for the cleaning fuel injectors like you recommended, thank you.

This is all at the 54th street manhattan BMW dealer by the way.
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      01-19-2014, 09:13 PM   #8
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Sounds insane. The iDrive controller is about $200 brand new for starters..
I know, that's what made me suspicious about all of this. The crazy iDrive and tire cost made me want to look in to the other prices. Either way it wouldn't matter because I have the controller in the glovebox and all I need is a bit of glue to stick it on with.

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      01-19-2014, 09:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ///Mcrazy View Post
The crazy thing is, I don't recall ever going over a pothole at all, and definitely not one that would require a new front and back suspension.

Thanks for the tire advice, are those the best tires to have for a summer (and rarely winter) car? I thought those prices were outrageous.

How much should an alignment cost, and should I get it done at a BMW dealer?

I have been using premium gas at every station I have been to, so I wont be going for the cleaning fuel injectors like you recommended, thank you.

This is all at the 54th street manhattan BMW dealer by the way.
If you bought the car new and don't recall any major incident that might mess up your suspension, definitely get a second opinion. If you bought the car used, well, maybe it was like that before? Did you do a pre-purchase inspection?

I've only gotten one alignment (at the dealer due to a time constraint issue), and it cost me $189. I of course got another alignment when the camber plates went in, but I can't remember whether the alignment was billed separately or considered part of the install. There's some regional variation in service prices of course, and NYC would be on the higher end, so $200 sounds reasonable.

Michelin PSS tires are perfect for the type of usage you're describing. If you'll need some snow performance, though, you might consider the new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3, which I've been reading is an all-season tire that somehow performs like good summer tires even on the track. I haven't looked into those carefully, but if that's something you might need, that's where I'd be looking. You can start here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=177.
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      01-19-2014, 09:17 PM   #10
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Did you by this car new? I think you would have noticed 7k in suspension damage. Independent BMW shop will be much cheaper if your out of warranty.

My .02
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      01-19-2014, 09:19 PM   #11
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Did you by this car new? I think you would have noticed 7k in suspension damage. Independent BMW shop will be much cheaper if your out of warranty.

My .02
bought it certified pre-owned from this dealer
I am out of warranty so I will look in to that
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      01-19-2014, 09:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
If you bought the car new and don't recall any major incident that might mess up your suspension, definitely get a second opinion. If you bought the car used, well, maybe it was like that before? Did you do a pre-purchase inspection?

I've only gotten one alignment (at the dealer due to a time constraint issue), and it cost me $189. I of course got another alignment when the camber plates went in, but I can't remember whether the alignment was billed separately or considered part of the install. There's some regional variation in service prices of course, and NYC would be on the higher end, so $200 sounds reasonable.

Michelin PSS tires are perfect for the type of usage you're describing. If you'll need some snow performance, though, you might consider the new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3, which I've been reading is an all-season tire that somehow performs like good summer tires even on the track. I haven't looked into those carefully, but if that's something you might need, that's where I'd be looking. You can start here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=177.
bought it certified pre-owned from the same dealer. They said it was inspected, and that was about 2 years ago. Would we need an alignment after a tire change?

Thanks for the tire advice again.
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      01-19-2014, 09:26 PM   #13
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bought it certified pre-owned from the same dealer. They said it was inspected, and that was about 2 years ago. Would we need an alignment after a tire change?

Thanks for the tire advice again.
An alignment after a tire change isn't strictly necessary (though I'm sure if you got one they'd find at least one item slightly out of spec), but you'd absolutely need one if you did the amount of suspension work they're talking about. I got an alignment with my first tire change but after reading more about it and talking with my indy guy, I learned that typically you only get an alignment if you have some sort of "event", e.g. a really nasty pothole, minor collision with another car/wildlife, etc, or if you notice a problem like the car not driving straight or significantly uneven wear on your tires. As I hinted above, a certain amount of uneven wear inside-to-outside is normal on a car like this, but any discrepancy like that should at least be consistent left-to-right on a given axle.

Good luck OP!
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      01-19-2014, 09:28 PM   #14
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I changed my tires so many times, never have I needed alignment. My car has over 40,000 miles and 4 years and I never did alignment and it drives as straight as it was day one. No uneven wear or anything of that sort.
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      01-19-2014, 09:30 PM   #15
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I changed my tires so many times, never have I needed alignment. My car has over 40,000 miles and 4 years and I never did alignment and it drives as straight as it was day one. No uneven wear or anything of that sort.
Mine kind of drifts off to the right whenever you let go of the wheel regardless of road angle. Guessing I need an alignment to fix that. It has done that since the day I bought it though, although it is very subtle and has gotten a little more pronounced lately.
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      01-19-2014, 09:31 PM   #16
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An alignment after a tire change isn't strictly necessary (though I'm sure if you got one they'd find at least one item slightly out of spec), but you'd absolutely need one if you did the amount of suspension work they're talking about. I got an alignment with my first tire change but after reading more about it and talking with my indy guy, I learned that typically you only get an alignment if you have some sort of "event", e.g. a really nasty pothole, minor collision with another car/wildlife, etc.

Good luck OP!
thank you, I probably do need an alignment as the car has never driven completely straight when you let go of the wheel.
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      01-19-2014, 09:48 PM   #17
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thank you, I probably do need an alignment as the car has never driven completely straight when you let go of the wheel.
Pretty much no car drives perfectly straight when you take your hand completely off the wheel. Part of that is because there are very few locations where the pavement is perfectly level, often by design to allow water to run off to one side rather than collecting in a standing puddle on the road. Rough pavement can also shake your car around, and cars with wider tires like ours have a tendency to tramline (i.e. follow road imperfections). And lastly there's also a certain amount of play in the steering rack. For example, I've noticed on every car I've ever driven that even if the car DOES track straight when I take my hand off the wheel, the steering wheel is never exactly centered, and if I center it, it goes off on an angle slightly. If you needed an alignment, you'd feel like you had to exert effort to keep the car straight.

I also edited my earlier post about alignments to add a bit more info.
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      01-19-2014, 09:52 PM   #18
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I would suggest going to like Autocouture and have them provide you with a estimate. Seems like its stuff that they can take care of
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      01-19-2014, 09:53 PM   #19
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Pretty much no car drives perfectly straight when you take your hand completely off the wheel. Part of that is because there are very few locations where the pavement is perfectly level (often by design to allow water to run off to one side rather than collecting in a standing puddle on the road), and of course rough pavement can shake your car around (and cars with wider tires like ours have a tendency to tramline, i.e. follow road imperfections), and lastly there's also a certain amount of play in the steering rack. For example, I've noticed on every car I've ever driven that even if the car DOES track straight when I take my hand off the wheel, the steering wheel is never exactly centered, and if I center it, it goes off on an angle slightly. If you needed an alignment, you'd feel like you had to exert effort to keep the car straight.

I also edited my earlier post about alignments to add a bit more info.
I guess I'll just end up asking a mechanic about an alignment if I end up getting a second opinion (probably will) and go based on his advice. That isn't the main issue though, my real problem is the $11,000 the dealership wants to charge me for possibly unnecessary repairs
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      01-19-2014, 09:56 PM   #20
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I would suggest going to like Autocouture and have them provide you with a estimate. Seems like its stuff that they can take care of
You mean MAC right? It does seem like their type of work and I have seen pictures of their work which looks really well done. Maybe I'll go to them....
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      01-19-2014, 10:04 PM   #21
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I'd buy a lift for $1500, put it up to figure out what needs to be done, and DIY the repair.
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      01-19-2014, 10:05 PM   #22
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Sorry to hear man. What symptoms were you experiencing? Even a pothole would be unlikely to trash entire front and rear suspension.
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