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      03-03-2014, 04:58 PM   #23
Petros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
In the UK there are two versions of this oil:
Edge professional 10W60 FST for M engines.
Edge 10W60 FST for M engines.
The "professional" version is the OEM fill oil and exclusive to BMW dealers.
"Edge" is the retail version.
Both meet the same specs but apparently the "Professional" version is more strictly quality controlled.
I sincerely doubt that Castrol will run two separate manufacturing and processing lines for what's basically the same oil, just to keep BMW happy. It is probably nothing more than branding, possibly related to the exclusivity deal with BMW. Maybe BMW patented the term "professional" to make it look like they and their stealerships know what they're doing, And that's why Castrol cannot sell a "professional" oil directly to the public.
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      03-03-2014, 09:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
In the UK there are two versions of this oil:
Edge professional 10W60 FST for M engines.
Edge 10W60 FST for M engines.
The "professional" version is the OEM fill oil and exclusive to BMW dealers.
"Edge" is the retail version.
Both meet the same specs but apparently the "Professional" version is more strictly quality controlled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
I sincerely doubt that Castrol will run two separate manufacturing and processing lines for what's basically the same oil, just to keep BMW happy. It is probably nothing more than branding, possibly related to the exclusivity deal with BMW. Maybe BMW patented the term "professional" to make it look like they and their stealerships know what they're doing, And that's why Castrol cannot sell a "professional" oil directly to the public.
Actually FunkyPants is correct. The version sold from the dealer is the ester based oil the other retail version is not. I think it is group 4, I posted this probably a half year or so ago, cant remember all the specifics but they are different. The black stone lab reports do not show that the base stock is different so they look the same. The machine they use is does not do that.
Doug Hillary (co-developer of the TWS oil) confirmed it over on BITOG and I tested it myself on our machines from Shell and agree with what he said.
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      03-03-2014, 11:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki00 View Post
Actually FunkyPants is correct. The version sold from the dealer is the ester based oil the other retail version is not. I think it is group 4, I posted this probably a half year or so ago, cant remember all the specifics but they are different. The black stone lab reports do not show that the base stock is different so they look the same. The machine they use is does not do that.
Doug Hillary (co-developer of the TWS oil) confirmed it over on BITOG and I tested it myself on our machines from Shell and agree with what he said.
I think you confused things. Here is what I think based on what I read online. The old original oil was Castrol RS which was the BMW approved oil. Then around 2000 or so Castrol reformulated RS from ester to PAO base and lost BMW approval. Since then, the original ester formula was relabeled as TWS, and later on reformulated as Edge TWS, which is the oil used today. The PAO formulation introduced in 2000 retained the RS name until it was later renamed Edge Sport. All of those oils had a viscosity of 10w60. But only the ester based formulations (old RS, then TWS, then Edge TWS) are approved for BMW M engines.

What SFP was saying was that there are two different Edge TWS formulations, the FST for general retail, and the "Professional" FST exclusive to BMW dealers. If that's the case, that would mean Castrol has 3 different 10w60 oils, the Edge Sport PAO based, then the two ester base oils, the normal FST, and the BMW-specific Professional FST. Supposedly, the "Professional" oil has better quality.

That is what I personally doubt. It seems pointless, wasteful, and cost prohibitive to have separate refinement and processing facilities to make the same oil with one of those facilities just a bit more thorough in quality control just for the sake of keeping BMW happy. Without evidence, I am assuming that the whole "Professional" naming thing on the label is just branding and marketing, nothing more. I'm thinking that this branding is part of the exclusivity agreemnent with BMW, that only oil sold by their dealers can be labelled "Professional", therefore Castrol removes that word from the label on the version of the oil destined for general retail.
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      03-04-2014, 04:24 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
I sincerely doubt that Castrol will run two separate manufacturing and processing lines for what's basically the same oil, just to keep BMW happy.
Its what I have been told by Castrol UK on two separate occasions, (I have been talking to Castrol Tech Support on and off for over 15 years) and although it wasn't something that they seemed eager to talk about, I have no particular reason to disbelieve them. [1]
I get that it might seem unlikely but you shouldn't underestimate the rings that Castrol will jump through to keep their OEM first fill supply contract in place...its millions of gallons of oil a year and a contract that any oil company would cut off its corporate left testicle to steal from Castrol.
I believe that Kawasaki was referring to an oil that in the UK was called Castrol Edge Sport 10W60 which sounds similar but was a different oil and didn't carry M engine approval. This particular brand name has now been discontinued probably to avoid confusion (using the word "Sport" made it sound like a better oil than the standard Edge 10W60 rather than being an inferior one). It doesn't help that some markets seem to have different names for the same oil.

[1] Edit
I suspect that Castrol wouldn't really want it known that the retail version has been superseded by an improved formulation and hence their reticence to discuss it. Which would fit in with the first post which notes the difference between the two oils. It does seem that Castrol Edge (TWS) remains the original formulation, is still approved for M engines and is retailed....while the Professional version is an updated formulation and is only available from BMW
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      03-07-2014, 07:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
I think you confused things. Here is what I think based on what I read online. The old original oil was Castrol RS which was the BMW approved oil. Then around 2000 or so Castrol reformulated RS from ester to PAO base and lost BMW approval. Since then, the original ester formula was relabeled as TWS, and later on reformulated as Edge TWS, which is the oil used today. The PAO formulation introduced in 2000 retained the RS name until it was later renamed Edge Sport. All of those oils had a viscosity of 10w60. But only the ester based formulations (old RS, then TWS, then Edge TWS) are approved for BMW M engines.

What SFP was saying was that there are two different Edge TWS formulations, the FST for general retail, and the "Professional" FST exclusive to BMW dealers. If that's the case, that would mean Castrol has 3 different 10w60 oils, the Edge Sport PAO based, then the two ester base oils, the normal FST, and the BMW-specific Professional FST. Supposedly, the "Professional" oil has better quality.

That is what I personally doubt. It seems pointless, wasteful, and cost prohibitive to have separate refinement and processing facilities to make the same oil with one of those facilities just a bit more thorough in quality control just for the sake of keeping BMW happy. Without evidence, I am assuming that the whole "Professional" naming thing on the label is just branding and marketing, nothing more. I'm thinking that this branding is part of the exclusivity agreemnent with BMW, that only oil sold by their dealers can be labelled "Professional", therefore Castrol removes that word from the label on the version of the oil destined for general retail.
What about this one though?
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E92-M3-...ice/ES2580488/

This is still labeled as "Professional" but is not "Genuine BMW" oil and is a few bucks cheaper than the bottle with the BMW label. What are your thoughts on this?
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      03-07-2014, 07:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viet View Post
What about this one though?
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E92-M3-...ice/ES2580488/

This is still labeled as "Professional" but is not "Genuine BMW" oil and is a few bucks cheaper than the bottle with the BMW label. What are your thoughts on this?
Strange indeed. Well, the last 2 points are easily explained. the "Genuine BMW approved" label is almost certainly restricted to oil sold through dealerships according to the exclusivity agreement. The lower price doesn't surprise me either since it's logical to assume that BMW and their stealerships are excessively marking up the price of the oil to give themselves a slice of the pie.

What puzzles me though is that some Castrol Edge TWS 10w60 bottles are labelled "Professional" and some aren't. I thought the "Professional" label was exclusive to the BMW-labelled version, but apparently it isn't. maybe it's different geographic distribution or possibly old labelling.
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      03-07-2014, 07:54 PM   #29
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I just found this link. It seems to confirm my hypothesis that the "Professional" label is "exclusive to OEM new car dealerships"

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7076437

Maybe the "Professional" ECS has is intended for a non-BMW car dealer?
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      07-16-2014, 04:53 AM   #30
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And this one... both FST and TWS recommended for ///M (only FST marked on bottle while also TWS in rec text).

http://www.dackonline.se/cgi-bin/osh...ay+erbjudanden
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      07-16-2014, 05:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmsman View Post
And this one... both FST and TWS recommended for ///M (only FST marked on bottle while also TWS in rec text).

http://www.dackonline.se/cgi-bin/osh...ay+erbjudanden



English spec sheet:
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/BBCC7FDE12E7F0BC80257C9F00354631/$File/BPXE-9HD6GW.pdf


FST is the name for their titanium add-pack. They don't use that branding on bottles in the US, but if you look at the regular Edge Professional TWS datasheet you will see the specs are identical:

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/C746D41872AA21F880257BAB002E4C5E/$File/BPXE-99R6P4.pdf


Therefore, the oil you linked to is exactly what we already have in our cars.
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