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      01-11-2014, 12:52 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davcrz5 View Post
Recently Autobid German ethusiast publication tested all M Models to see which M would be fastest around Sachsenring racetrack here are results
1.M3 GTS semi slick tires 1:37.30
2.M3 CRT 1:38.37
3.M5 F10 1:38.90
4.1M 1:40.18
5.M3 coupe 1:40.52
6.M3 sedan 1:40.60
7.M3 vert 1:42.63
8.X6M 1:43.67
9.X5M 1:43.72
10. E60 M5 1:43.77

Now GTS and CRT are special addition purpose built true track ready cars this was not surprising in least. I'm more interested in the standard cars,such as a normal M3, M5, and 1M this is where it gets interesting M5 is just three hundredth of second slower than the special edition M3 CRT now that's impressive even more so was how well 1M did considering its price and power now that amazing. So if you are ranking them as standard M cars, non special edition cars this is how they would rank

1. M5 1:38.90
2. 1M 1:40.18
3. M3 1:40.52
4. M3 sedan1:40.60
5. M3 vert 1:42.63

So to answer your question yes standard M5 is faster than the standard M3 around the track. And to answer a bigger questions yes New modern higher horsepower heavier sport sedans and coupes can trump a lighter weight Less powerful sport sedans and coupes go figure.

Of bigboys the Panamera was faster 1:38.13 than the M5 1:38.90, but the M5 with more than 2 sec faster than the E 63 AMG 1:40.59
Good information. I believe the original comparison was E60 M5 to E92 M3 but you're right that these new, heavy beasts are capable of astonishing lap times. 4,000 lbs is the new 3,000 lbs! Tire technology plays a huge role as well. All that said, I expect the F80 M3 to put down some stonkin' fast numbers and to be comfortably faster than the F10 M5. If the 0-1000m numbers BMW is quoting are accurate, the new M3 will basically render the M5 pointless.
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      01-11-2014, 05:02 PM   #46
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My e63 m6 on rs3's and Coilovers was a pig and not enjoyable in the least on track. That weighed 3900 lbs. let's see what progress does...
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      01-11-2014, 05:05 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc
Compression ratio is a high 12.3 but how in the world did ferrari pull off the 14.0:1 in the new 458????????? I'm also glad to see Lexus kept the port injection to keep the valves from collecting carbon. I'm not looking forward to all the DI valves in the next few years needing walnut shell blasting. Mine included...
My daily driver has 17.5:1 and runs 30 lbs of boost.....
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      01-11-2014, 06:05 PM   #48
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It's like a snazzy looking Genesis Coupe! Grill is pretty bad, I mean that much 'black mesh plastic' is just a bad contrast idea. I guess if the car were black, then it would all blend in and be hidden a bit.

Re: specs, I like that it will be NA and 480hp! Sweet. Don't like it has a torque converter auto - lame. Interior is meh, not bad, but nothing wow.

The LF-A is the only Lexus sports car that showed promise for Lexus's future. That car was a masterpiece competing with the very best of its class. It's like the guy / team who made the LF-A quit Lexus, and some idiots are picking up the pieces - the RC-F could of easily become a toned down version of the LF-A, and had a better chance competing in the segment - instead we get this recycled shizzz... dude...
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      01-16-2014, 08:14 PM   #49
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From Detroit Autoshow
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      01-16-2014, 08:34 PM   #50
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From Detroit Autoshow
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      01-17-2014, 12:32 PM   #51
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The car looks good except for that front end! The detached swoosh LEDs from the headlights and that grill is just ugly.

Notice they picked a dark blue color so you don't notice the detached LEDs as much. In white, it will be very obvious and ugly.
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      01-20-2014, 02:22 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davcrz5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashman View Post
M5 is faster around the track than an M3?... lol
Recently Autobid German ethusiast publication tested all M Models to see which M would be fastest around Sachsenring racetrack here are results
1.M3 GTS semi slick tires 1:37.30
2.M3 CRT 1:38.37
3.M5 F10 1:38.90
4.1M 1:40.18
5.M3 coupe 1:40.52
6.M3 sedan 1:40.60
7.M3 vert 1:42.63
8.X6M 1:43.67
9.X5M 1:43.72
10. E60 M5 1:43.77

Now GTS and CRT are special addition purpose built true track ready cars this was not surprising in least. I'm more interested in the standard cars,such as a normal M3, M5, and 1M this is where it gets interesting M5 is just three hundredth of second slower than the special edition M3 CRT now that's impressive even more so was how well 1M did considering its price and power now that amazing. So if you are ranking them as standard M cars, non special edition cars this is how they would rank

1. M5 1:38.90
2. 1M 1:40.18
3. M3 1:40.52
4. M3 sedan1:40.60
5. M3 vert 1:42.63

So to answer your question yes standard M5 is faster than the standard M3 around the track. And to answer a bigger questions yes New modern higher horsepower heavier sport sedans and coupes can trump a lighter weight Less powerful sport sedans and coupes go figure.

Of bigboys the Panamera was faster 1:38.13 than the M5 1:38.90, but the M5 with more than 2 sec faster than the E 63 AMG 1:40.59
Some guy his x5m was faster around the track vs an e60 m5.

These times were not back to back times but more of a collection of times from the different track days.

What you or the mag fails to note is that the e60 m5 times are in DAMP conditions. Drivers can also be different. So many variables.

So dont just spit out garbage from magazine articles.
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      01-20-2014, 03:13 PM   #53
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So dont just spit out garbage from magazine articles.
Magazine racers.
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      01-20-2014, 04:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
So dont just spit out garbage from magazine articles.
Magazine racers.
I dont get it neither.

I mean yes a sweeping fast track of course big power is going to win. Now take it to a tighter more technical course. What do these ppl think is going to happen??

Lighter more nimbler car will have better times. Come on now. Doesnt take a genius to figure that one out.
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      01-25-2014, 11:39 AM   #55
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Saw it at the Detroit show, I love the profile and the rear despite those tacky tail pipes, but that big mouth nose is just gross.
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      01-25-2014, 12:10 PM   #56
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Quote:
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This point is already well settled. BMW NA web uses weights with driver. The 3300 lb figure does not include driver (that's a huge difference). It may or may not include ~40 lb of savings from CSiC brakes. If BMW is being honest it should not need the brakes to be 80 kg lighter than a similarly equipped E92 M3. That latter is nearly an exact quote from BMW M on the cars weight.
weight quoted was based on the standard brakes per bimmerposts interview with BMW execs. it was also based on 90% fluids I think.

I'm thinking with full options, an M4 will be 3,430 at most, sunroof (est 50lbs), CCB (-18lbs per BMW execs), DCT (54lbs est. based on current E9x figures), HK sound (10lbs est based on standard vs. enhanced system on E9x), other misc options (10lbs), + full fluids (18lbs). Based on the e9x, I don't see the 18 vs 19" wheel would effecting curb weight.
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      01-27-2014, 10:00 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc View Post
Anybody want to make a bet an M4 with DCT, full fluids, 19" wheels, and sunroof is more like 3500 pounds and not 3300 pounds?

The E90 M3 with DCT and full fluids is 3700 pounds. The old IS-F with sun roof and full fluids AND spare tire and jack is 3800 pounds.

The new M4 is 176 pounds lighter than the old M3 according the BMW. How is 3700 - 176 = 3300?

If the RC-F really is 3900 pounds with 480 hp vs. the M4 which I think is more like 3500 pounds, performance will be quite similar.

Oh, also, for the first time, Lexus will actually use PSS standard instead of RE050 which suck and always leads to crappy #s on the magazines AND, they will use the same width tires also 255 up front and 275 in the rear instead of using a size smaller like in the past.

I've got my bag of popcorn and anxiously waiting the comparos...
You wanna make a bet the new M4 is underrated 30-40 hp?

lets say the RF-C will all "fluids" etc is exactly 3,900 and the M4 say its 3,500 like you say. Its still 400 pounds AND don't forget how much better the M transmission will be

The M4 will outperform that new lexus. I'll take that bet.
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      01-28-2014, 12:46 AM   #58
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I am glad Lexus is keeping it N/A. Personally I will never own another M car seeing where BMW is going with it's F/I.

My next car will be among GT3, C63 507 or RF-C or keep my E90 M.
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      01-28-2014, 12:57 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddict3 View Post
You wanna make a bet the new M4 is underrated 30-40 hp?

lets say the RF-C will all "fluids" etc is exactly 3,900 and the M4 say its 3,500 like you say. Its still 400 pounds AND don't forget how much better the M transmission will be

The M4 will outperform that new lexus. I'll take that bet.
As others have posted perhaps not quite at succinctly, the likely power to weight (weight to power...) ratios are:

3550/450 = 7.9 lb/hp
3850/480 = 8.0 lb/hp

That is less than a 2% difference. The 300 lb will give the M4 some significant handling and braking advantages. My prediction is that the cars will be basically a drivers race in a straight line. However, pretty well all of the journalists test metrics will have the M4 edging out the RC-F. The margin of victory will be wider on anything twisty.
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      01-28-2014, 01:34 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
As others have posted perhaps not quite at succinctly, the likely power to weight (weight to power...) ratios are:

3550/450 = 7.9 lb/hp
3850/480 = 8.0 lb/hp

That is less than a 2% difference. The 300 lb will give the M4 some significant handling and braking advantages. My prediction is that the cars will be basically a drivers race in a straight line. However, pretty well all of the journalists test metrics will have the M4 edging out the RC-F. The margin of victory will be wider on anything twisty.
But will the journalist come back and say despite being slower, the lexus is more enjoyable or rewarding to drive because of X (better steering, throttle response, engine noise etc). That is what I am more interested in than numbers. I guess we'll find out shortly.
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      01-28-2014, 02:13 PM   #61
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Man interior is blah, and every button reeks of standard Toyota.
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      01-28-2014, 02:49 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
As others have posted perhaps not quite at succinctly, the likely power to weight (weight to power...) ratios are:

3550/450 = 7.9 lb/hp
3850/480 = 8.0 lb/hp

That is less than a 2% difference. The 300 lb will give the M4 some significant handling and braking advantages. My prediction is that the cars will be basically a drivers race in a straight line. However, pretty well all of the journalists test metrics will have the M4 edging out the RC-F. The margin of victory will be wider on anything twisty.
Can I ask where you got your 3550lbs weight for the M4? The weight annouced by BMW is 1500kg for the manual and 1540kg for the DCT, that's 180-250lbs lighter then your prediction, curious to know why you think BMW would lie about that! Is it because they underate their engines that you think they also underate their curb weight!?

But seriously, I totally believe the weight announced by BMW since their new philosophy of construction is all about cutting weight! Also I don't think this would be a drivers race between the two(if the new RC-F really weight around 3900lbs) simply because I think the S55 wil have alsmost the same amount of peak power as the Lexus V8 but will have a lot more power under the curve and most importantly A LOT less weight to carry! With the announced weight of the RC-F I think the car will be a closer race to a DCT e9x M3!

p.s. Can't wait to see those cars in action!!

Last edited by Alex07M3; 01-28-2014 at 04:31 PM.
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      01-28-2014, 04:29 PM   #63
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That looks like a touchpad on the armrest! Cool beans!

You can really see how the LFA rubbed off on the F....gauge cluster is NICE.

Edit: Why yes, it is a touchpad. http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-le...oit-auto-show/

Other interesting notes from that article:

Quote:
The hot 5.0-liter V-8 of the RC F also features all-electric cam phasing that allows the engine to go in and out of Atkinson-cycle operation to save fuel—a first that we know of in a production engine. Instead of being powered by oil pressure, as most variable cam-timing devices are, the Lexus’s V-8 has four electric solenoids to vary cam timing. On the intake side, the solenoids can hold open the valves longer to effectively reduce the compression ratio and lengthen the power stroke, which reduces the amount of fuel needed—and power produced—by the engine.
Where is the 480hp number coming from? The *official* press release says, "More than 450hp". http://www.lexus.com/concept/RCF/_pdf/RCF-2.pdf I have yet to find anything concrete that says 480hp. The number I keep seeing is 460.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc View Post
I'm also glad to see Lexus kept the port injection to keep the valves from collecting carbon. I'm not looking forward to all the DI valves in the next few years needing walnut shell blasting. Mine included...
+1 Bravo to Toyota for carrying on their tradition of providing PORT INJECTION as well as direct injection. BMW, are you paying attention?

Last edited by whats77inaname; 01-28-2014 at 05:06 PM.
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      01-28-2014, 09:57 PM   #64
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I'm sure the M4 will be underrated - that I don't doubt. I'm also disappointed to find out that earlier reports of 480 hp has now become "at least 450". But, the new RC-F will handily beat any stock E9X M3 since the revised IS-F and E9XM3 became a dead heat after a few suspension revisions.

Right now, we are just speculating. Nobody knows the exact specs and how the cars drive. I'm not in the market for a new car anyways. I'm just enjoying all the different performance cars flooding the market.

Even though the RC-F can't be tuned or FI, at least one thing I know is that they probably left 50+ hp in the restrictive cats and exhaust. My 6 year old IS-F has just headers and exhaust and is already around 470 crank.

BTW, for all of you guys that always say that the 8 speed auto sucks, probably haven't ever driven the IS-F 8 speed in manual mode. Under manual mode, you really can't tell the difference between PDK, DCT, 8 speed auto. I can't tell and it upshifts and downshifts almost the moment I flip the paddle. So, what's all the negativity about the tranny?

So, perhaps the RC-F will be slower but if it wins comparos based on steering, chassis, fun-to-drive, etc.. It'll just be like the old days but reversed when the IS350 handily beat the 330i (a couple of years before the 335 came out).
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      01-28-2014, 10:14 PM   #65
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I am glad Lexus is keeping it N/A. Personally I will never own another M car seeing where BMW is going with it's F/I.

My next car will be among GT3, C63 507 or RF-C or keep my E90 M.
Dont forget the ferocious RS5. That thing is nasty as nasty gets despite the weight. I'll never track a $75k car so weight is irrelevant to me.
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      01-28-2014, 10:23 PM   #66
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From Detroit Autoshow

Thats pretty impressive to say the least!
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