BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
BPM Sport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-03-2014, 10:36 AM   #23
BESTNDA416
Captain
 
BESTNDA416's Avatar
 
Drives: ESS VT3 750 E92
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto

Posts: 622
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [4.83]
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggynuts01 View Post
I recently had MRF solid subframe bushings and Turner Motorsport aluminum/delrin differential mounts installed - at MRF.

First off, I was a bit scared to get the solid subframe bushings installed because of the forums. There is a lot of misguided and misleading information from forum members. In fact, a lot of forum member's input regarding subframe bushings garbage. If they really think it causes NVH then they should be driving a Buick.

I decided to proceed with the solid differential and sub-frame install, mostly due to reviews from italyx and talking with Malek.

Malek was awesome as usual and my car was done on time.

Driving experience. There is no freaking increase in NVH from the sub-frame bushings! None at all, Unless your eardrums are on steroids. It sounds and feels no different than the rubber bushings.

However, with the aluminum/delrin turner motorsport differential mounts, there is slightly more noise. There is a slight whine that increases with speed, but it sounds awesome and the sound seems to level off once you get past 80mph. The noise is faint enough that it gets drowned out by rolling the windows down or playing music.I personally, love the noise, it sounds like a racecar - yet faint.

Performance wise. I noticed that my car no longer breaks loose at the top of 2nd and 3rd where it used to like clockwork. There is much more traction from reduced wheel hop. The car is more direct and feels more agile. It feels much closer to my Cayman s (which I use as my benchmark). It makes the car's chassis feel like a solid block of metal in which every input translates directly to an output.

I would say this is one of the best mods that increase performance by far.


How much was the MRF solid aluminum subframe bushings if you don't mind me asking?
BESTNDA416 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-03-2014, 01:11 PM   #24
Wendall
***Major MammelToe
 
Wendall's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 SG coupe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 1,146
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant Man View Post
How many hours labour to install both subframe and diff bushings pls?

I'd really like to have a better feel for the diff whine before going ahead with any changes. Would you be able to post a video so that it can be heard? I.e what you hear from the driver's seat. Is it akin to straighcut racing gearboxes but quieter?
My car was in the shop for two full days. I believe the labor hours are 12-15.
__________________
E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.

Wendall is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-04-2014, 03:05 PM   #25
Ant Man
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3 Jerez black / Fox red
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Anglia

Posts: 1,036
iTrader: (1)

Thanks. Any chance you could post a vid or sound clip of the diff whine?
Ant Man is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      01-05-2014, 12:19 AM   #26
TXmtrhed
First Lieutenant
 
TXmtrhed's Avatar
 
Drives: VO 1M
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Katy, TX

Posts: 320
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant Man View Post

I'd really like to have a better feel for the diff whine before going ahead with any changes. Would you be able to post a video so that it can be heard? I.e what you hear from the driver's seat. Is it akin to straighcut racing gearboxes but quieter?
I think your description is spot on. I rode in a friends e46 track car last month, his first event after having solid subframe and diff bushings installed. The diff whine was very noticeable; personally I would hate it on the street.

For a street car I would try the Powerflex or similar product for the diff bushings.
__________________
TXmtrhed is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2014, 03:54 PM   #27
yellow munson
New Member
 
Drives: e91 super wagon
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: tn

Posts: 19
iTrader: (0)

I only track my car few times in year, but mosty on street. with my kw coilover and solid subframe bushing.. I love it. but where I am at, road is pretty smooth. However, if I live in like NY or PA. massive of bumps and road construction.. yes, it will get annoying little. definitly makes the car tighten up how it drives for sure.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TXmtrhed View Post
I think your description is spot on. I rode in a friends e46 track car last month, his first event after having solid subframe and diff bushings installed. The diff whine was very noticeable; personally I would hate it on the street.

For a street car I would try the Powerflex or similar product for the diff bushings.
yellow munson is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-22-2014, 06:18 AM   #28
squartus
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 Bmw m3 Coupe 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi

Posts: 113
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 E92 BMW M3  [0.00]
I got the solid delrin rear diff mounts and replaced the engine mounts with race mounts as well. "was snapping rear diff bolts is reason"

Car is much more grounded and responsive with farrr less wheel hop. Downside is you do get a nice whine inside the cabin, even over exhaust and music. Goes away at around 80mph though, not annoying but not wanted noise either.
Our cars come with crappy ass squishy diff mounts though that do need to be replaced even if you do a little aggressive street driving.
__________________
squartus is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-23-2014, 06:17 PM   #29
FazerBoy
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London, UK

Posts: 386
iTrader: (0)

Would changing out the rear subframe bushings for solid mean that stresses that otherwise would have been dissipated by the flexible bushings might now be transferred to elsewhere in the chassis and does the chassis therefore have to be reinforced?

I have bought a set of the bushings and am about to get them fitted. I can deal with a little more NVH as the M3 is too soft and comfy in my opinion but I don't want to find that my mounting points are cracking down the line...

Does anybody know whether it's ok to simply fit the bushings and not require any other work? My driving is 90:10 street to track but I do drive quite hard on the street..

Thanks

Jack
FazerBoy is online now   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      02-23-2014, 07:22 PM   #30
JEllis
Brigadier General
 
JEllis's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma

Posts: 4,680
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
Would changing out the rear subframe bushings for solid mean that stresses that otherwise would have been dissipated by the flexible bushings might now be transferred to elsewhere in the chassis and does the chassis therefore have to be reinforced?

I have bought a set of the bushings and am about to get them fitted. I can deal with a little more NVH as the M3 is too soft and comfy in my opinion but I don't want to find that my mounting points are cracking down the line...

Does anybody know whether it's ok to simply fit the bushings and not require any other work? My driving is 90:10 street to track but I do drive quite hard on the street..

Thanks

Jack
The OE rubber bushings have too much flex. Ideally you want no flex/movement so the unibody does not have to absorb any excess stress. The flex of the OE bushings puts a lot of pressure on the mounting points of the subframe and in extreme cases will rip/tear the unibody structure. The E92 M3 has not been around long enough but torn unibodies have occurred on the E36 and E46 platform. So, its actually the opposite of what you would think.

Again, the M3 GTS, current M5/6 all have a completely solid subframes straight from BMW.
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
JEllis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-24-2014, 09:39 PM   #31
flipm3
E46 + E90
 
Drives: E46 M3 + E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois

Posts: 2,772
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
Malek@MRF

Is there any kind of upkeep or maintenance solid aluminum subframe bushings require for cars that see all four seasons to ensure minimal added NVH over stock?
__________________
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread
E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread
flipm3 is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2014, 03:48 PM   #32
Malek@MRF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Malek@MRF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3, E30, F30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

Posts: 3,372
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
Malek@MRF

Is there any kind of upkeep or maintenance solid aluminum subframe bushings require for cars that see all four seasons to ensure minimal added NVH over stock?
There is no upkeep or maintenance required with the MRF Engineering Sub-frame bushings. Essentially, once they are installed, you will never have to worry about them ever again and will last the life of the car. Pair with the differential bushings (Delrin or Solid ONLY), the differential bushings will require no maintenance as well.

Once these 2 items are installed into the rear carrier, the only maintenance for the rear end and differential will be other rubber bushed parts, the differential output shaft seals along with the M Limited Slip. The solid bushings and differential bushings will not accelerate the wear on any other items, in fact it will strain the unibody less and will alleviate the strain placed on the differential mounts themselves.

Feel free to ask as many questions you need either here or by PM.

-Malek
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.
Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Malek@MRF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-28-2014, 04:43 PM   #33
Ant Man
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3 Jerez black / Fox red
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Anglia

Posts: 1,036
iTrader: (1)

How much for the rear subframe MRF bushes, Malek, shipped to the UK pls?
Ant Man is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2014, 12:45 PM   #34
Malek@MRF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Malek@MRF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3, E30, F30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

Posts: 3,372
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant Man View Post
How much for the rear subframe MRF bushes, Malek, shipped to the UK pls?
You have a PM.
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.
Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Malek@MRF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2014, 01:16 PM   #35
jacobe92
Lieutenant
 
jacobe92's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Frozen Red
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cerritos, CA

Posts: 437
iTrader: (2)

Suspension

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
Good stuff, Biggy. How long was the labor on the subframe bushings? Thinking of getting this done.

Ben,

Labor is approximately 12 hours when it's all said and done as there are a lot of steps to ensure the job is done correctly.

As biggynuts01 said, this modification is mandatory in my eyes. It is the reason why the modern M's are switching over to this design, although I do feel they are 10 years too late to the party and should have implemented this type of design theory when the cars began to increase in power astronomically to prevent all the sub-frame issues they had in the past.

NVH increase is non-existent with the change of the sub-frame bushings themselves and extremely minimal change in noise from doing the differential bushings in conjunction. For most of the street car and occasional weekend racer vehicles, I opt to use the Turner Delrin differential bushings along with the MRF sub-frame bushings. For cars that are more dedicated to track usage, I have developed solid differential bushings as well.

For those wondering, the MRF Engineering Motorsport sub-frame bushings are fully designed and engineered in-house at MRF and CNC'd right here in Southern California.
With regards to the said suspension upgrade. Do you need another Alignment and Corner Balance after the work is done? Thanks.
__________________

KW Clubsports, Brembo BBK Front 365mm Rear 345mm, Akrapovic-Evo, Dinan Toe-links, 18" Bronze TE-37 Front 18x9.5 et 20 Rear 18x10.5 et 22 w/ RS3's, Cusco Bar, Recaro Sportster CS Black Leather, Turner 90 MM Lug Extensions
jacobe92 is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2014, 01:32 PM   #36
Malek@MRF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Malek@MRF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3, E30, F30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

Posts: 3,372
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobe92 View Post
With regards to the said suspension upgrade. Do you need another Alignment and Corner Balance after the work is done? Thanks.
A corner balance is not required, an alignment is. Mainly to ensure that everything is still correct and indexed correctly. We include the alignment with the procedure anyway. We have done approximately 20 cars now just locally.
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.
Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Malek@MRF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2014, 02:15 PM   #37
e92livin
Captain
 
e92livin's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto

Posts: 888
iTrader: (4)

Rear subframe bushings price shipped to L6W 3R6 - Ontario, Canada
__________________
2008 E92 BMW M3 MR/BB 6MT
|Gintani Supercharged|Gintani X-Pipe|Stack Gauges|Volk TE37SL|BC Racing Coilovers|Hankook RS-3 |BMW Performance Spoiler|BMW Performance Steering Wheel|BMW Performance Side Gills + Grilles|Mode Carbon Variant 2 Splitter|IND Tri- Stitched Shift + Brake Boot|

Last edited by e92livin; 03-04-2014 at 02:16 PM. Reason: -
e92livin is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2014, 10:26 AM   #38
FazerBoy
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London, UK

Posts: 386
iTrader: (0)

This is a great mod!!

I had the MRF aluminium rear subframe bushings and Turner Delrin differential bushings fitted yesterday and I love it...

There's no doubt that the diff is now noisier. It whines a bit and there is more noise when changing gear but the back end feels better when accelerating hard, especially out of corners.

The car feels more raw overall and this will either be a good thing or bad thing depending on whether you view the E9x M3 as a race car with road comforts (then you will love it) or as a luxury road car with sporty leanings (then you might hate it).

I would recommend Malek as somebody to deal with. I had lots of stupid questions and he dealt with them all. He also spoke to my installer to guide them. Delivery to the UK was very quick (although not cheap!).

Jack
FazerBoy is online now   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2014, 09:07 PM   #39
schnell325
Bored at work....
 
schnell325's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 M3,'11 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BC

Posts: 3,860
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
This is a great mod!!

I had the MRF aluminium rear subframe bushings and Turner Delrin differential bushings fitted yesterday and I love it...

There's no doubt that the diff is now noisier. It whines a bit and there is more noise when changing gear but the back end feels better when accelerating hard, especially out of corners.

The car feels more raw overall and this will either be a good thing or bad thing depending on whether you view the E9x M3 as a race car with road comforts (then you will love it) or as a luxury road car with sporty leanings (then you might hate it).

I would recommend Malek as somebody to deal with. I had lots of stupid questions and he dealt with them all. He also spoke to my installer to guide them. Delivery to the UK was very quick (although not cheap!).

Jack
Wonderful to hear. I have those exact parts ready to go in to my E92.
schnell325 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2014, 01:22 PM   #40
Malek@MRF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Malek@MRF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3, E30, F30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

Posts: 3,372
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell325 View Post
Wonderful to hear. I have those exact parts ready to go in to my E92.
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.
Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Malek@MRF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2014, 01:40 PM   #41
tmntmn
///M
 
Drives: e92 M3/M-DCT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay Area

Posts: 1,901
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malek@MRF View Post
Hey Malek,

If i go with the solid rear sub-frame and to avoid the diff noise can i use a powerflex (poly) whatever its called? or do you recommend using at lease a Derlin diff bushing?
__________________
THANKS TO:~<RPM>~ ~<SONICMS>~ ~<MODECARBON>~ ~<McKennaPerformance>~
MODS: MODECARBON V2 GTS FRONT LIP & REAR DIFFUSER, AA GREEN FILTER, RPI SCOOPS, PSW, Verstraβe Extended DCT Shifter, ZCP WHEELS (SEMI-GLOSS), OHLINS R&T, Megan Exhaust, ACM TP, BMW LED INTERIOR, BLACKOUT W/ORION V4 LED AE, OSRAM CBI
tmntmn is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2014, 02:49 PM   #42
Malek@MRF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Malek@MRF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3, E30, F30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

Posts: 3,372
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmntmn View Post
Hey Malek,

If i go with the solid rear sub-frame and to avoid the diff noise can i use a powerflex (poly) whatever its called? or do you recommend using at lease a Derlin diff bushing?
You can use the Powerflex differential bushings with the MRF Engineering solid sub-frame bushings. We have done this on a few cars now and the owners love it as well. Most of the benefit comes from the sub-frame mounts anyway, the differential bushings are the icing on the cake. Most prefer the feel of the Delrin differential bushings and are willing to deal with the slight increase in differential gear whine.

It's really a subjective matter though. If one is willing to deal with a louder exhaust, then dealing with some more diff whine shouldn't be a concern.
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.
Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Malek@MRF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2014, 03:19 PM   #43
Ant Man
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3 Jerez black / Fox red
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Anglia

Posts: 1,036
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
This is a great mod!!

I had the MRF aluminium rear subframe bushings and Turner Delrin differential bushings fitted yesterday and I love it...

There's no doubt that the diff is now noisier. It whines a bit and there is more noise when changing gear but the back end feels better when accelerating hard, especially out of corners.

The car feels more raw overall and this will either be a good thing or bad thing depending on whether you view the E9x M3 as a race car with road comforts (then you will love it) or as a luxury road car with sporty leanings (then you might hate it).

I would recommend Malek as somebody to deal with. I had lots of stupid questions and he dealt with them all. He also spoke to my installer to guide them. Delivery to the UK was very quick (although not cheap!).

Jack
Jack, glad you like the mods. Malek quoted me $195 to send via Fedex which I thought was a lot from a cost / weight perspective. I would have thought they could be sent for less? Perhaps a cheaper courier is available. Did you get charged VAT / custom charges on top?

Also, did you use Birds? And how long did the job take pls?
Ant Man is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2014, 03:55 PM   #44
tmntmn
///M
 
Drives: e92 M3/M-DCT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay Area

Posts: 1,901
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malek@MRF View Post
You can use the Powerflex differential bushings with the MRF Engineering solid sub-frame bushings. We have done this on a few cars now and the owners love it as well. Most of the benefit comes from the sub-frame mounts anyway, the differential bushings are the icing on the cake. Most prefer the feel of the Delrin differential bushings and are willing to deal with the slight increase in differential gear whine.

It's really a subjective matter though. If one is willing to deal with a louder exhaust, then dealing with some more diff whine shouldn't be a concern.
I'm currently running test pipe with Megan rear will the Diff whine be louder? if not i should run MRF Solid Sub Frame and Derlin Diff

Sorry for all the questions Malek
__________________
THANKS TO:~<RPM>~ ~<SONICMS>~ ~<MODECARBON>~ ~<McKennaPerformance>~
MODS: MODECARBON V2 GTS FRONT LIP & REAR DIFFUSER, AA GREEN FILTER, RPI SCOOPS, PSW, Verstraβe Extended DCT Shifter, ZCP WHEELS (SEMI-GLOSS), OHLINS R&T, Megan Exhaust, ACM TP, BMW LED INTERIOR, BLACKOUT W/ORION V4 LED AE, OSRAM CBI
tmntmn is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:35 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST