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      10-09-2007, 07:20 PM   #1
avlnch
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M3 Sedan - SMG?

Is SMG available for the M3 Sedan? I have only seen pictures of it in manual, but I know the coupe has the option for SMG... ...

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      10-09-2007, 10:02 PM   #2
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Is SMG available for the M3 Sedan? I have only seen pictures of it in manual, but I know the coupe has the option for SMG... ...

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Aaron
No, but Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) will be available at some point for both (Spring '08?)--should be better than SMG.
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Last edited by GregW / Oregon; 10-11-2007 at 09:41 PM.
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      10-09-2007, 10:43 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) will be available at some point for both (Spring '08?)--should be better than SMG.

Not sure about that. I've been on a track in an M5 with SMG....i LOVE the kick up your ass you get when you shift up!! It's absolutely brutal and I dont think much else could compare to it. Just wouldn't be the same if it was smooth shifted...

(although i do agree the DCT would be better for everyday driving)
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      10-10-2007, 12:02 AM   #4
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Is DCT superior to SMGII?

DCT is meant for a smoother shift, right? So does that mean a slower shift?
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      10-10-2007, 02:59 AM   #5
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DCT is a different league. It is a dual clutch which means fastest shifting possible - close to 0 shifting time.

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Originally Posted by avlnch View Post
Is DCT superior to SMGII?

DCT is meant for a smoother shift, right? So does that mean a slower shift?
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      10-10-2007, 08:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vantage View Post
Not sure about that. I've been on a track in an M5 with SMG....i LOVE the kick up your ass you get when you shift up!! It's absolutely brutal and I dont think much else could compare to it. Just wouldn't be the same if it was smooth shifted...
I'm sure there will be modes for the DCT box that allow that type of aggressive shifting for when you want it.

The M-DCT box will likely be superior to SMG III in just about every way. The idea is to evolve the SMG concept by adding a second input shaft (and clutch) thereby drastically lowering shift times. Aside from that, they are very similar in concept and mechanics.
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      10-10-2007, 08:30 AM   #7
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Downshifts are slow with DSG. Hopefully BMW will fix it.
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      10-10-2007, 11:58 AM   #8
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Rough, slow?

From what I understand DSG and hence M-DCT downshifts CAN be slow if the system has not correctly anticipated the need for a lower gear. If it has, which it can do most often, the downshifts will be precisely the same speed as the upshifts. VW quotes 8 ms for DSG but a more realistic number from other sources is about .02-.03 s. This time is also likely the ENTIRE shift with both clutch operations. As we know SMG quotes times of .065 or .08 s are BS, including both clutch operations the actual time is closer to .20-.25 s

DSG and hence again M-DCT is inherently smooth shifting. I doubt they will provide a mode to cripple the system by making it more like SMG. I agree there is some raw appeal of the neck snap of SMG but fast=smooth=more performance=less wear with DSG/M-DCT. Along with the entire nature of the new M3 we are going to have to acccept that more raw/visceral is not faster nor better in many cases.
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      10-10-2007, 12:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
From what I understand DSG and hence M-DCT downshifts CAN be slow if the system has not correctly anticipated the need for a lower gear. If it has, which it can do most often, the downshifts will be precisely the same speed as the upshifts. VW quotes 8 ms for DSG but a more realistic number from other sources is about .02-.03 s. This time is also likely the ENTIRE shift with both clutch operations. As we know SMG quotes times of .065 or .08 s are BS, including both clutch operations the actual time is closer to .20-.25 s

DSG and hence again M-DCT is inherently smooth shifting. I doubt they will provide a mode to cripple the system by making it more like SMG. I agree there is some raw appeal of the neck snap of SMG but fast=smooth=more performance=less wear with DSG/M-DCT. Along with the entire nature of the new M3 we are going to have to acccept that more raw/visceral is not faster nor better in many cases.
There is also the issue that block down-shifts e.g. 4-2 require both input shafts to be enaged since changes involving only a single shaft are not possible.

Anyway, to answer the OP's question, the 6MT is currently the only available option.
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      10-10-2007, 12:17 PM   #10
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If you want a kick, get the MT and add it with your hand and clutch foot.
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      10-10-2007, 01:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CSL View Post
If you want a kick, get the MT and add it with your hand and clutch foot.
haha good point, and i guess if i did get an M3 i would probably get the manual.....but i kinda prefer the paddles in cars over 500 hp. i guess swamp2 is right...M3 would be less "visceral" than we would hope for - M5 for me!!
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      10-11-2007, 02:47 AM   #12
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Probably not a big deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
There is also the issue that block down-shifts e.g. 4-2 require both input shafts to be enaged since changes involving only a single shaft are not possible.

Anyway, to answer the OP's question, the 6MT is currently the only available option.
If you are decelerating on a track you could go 4->3->2 in which case the transmission computer would likely predict ("guess") your next move and each shift would each be preselected and quite quick. If you wanted a freeway cruising speed 4->2 direct it would probably be a bit slower but not terrible - worst case scenario somthing like a 4->3 in an SMG (or maybe a bit worse than that).
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      10-11-2007, 09:32 PM   #13
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A little off topic but do the M3's have heads-up display?
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      10-11-2007, 09:42 PM   #14
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A little off topic but do the M3's have heads-up display?
Negatron. No option yet.
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      10-12-2007, 01:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I'm sure there will be modes for the DCT box that allow that type of aggressive shifting for when you want it.

The M-DCT box will likely be superior to SMG III in just about every way. The idea is to evolve the SMG concept by adding a second input shaft (and clutch) thereby drastically lowering shift times. Aside from that, they are very similar in concept and mechanics.
"Drastically" lowering shift times? I don't know, the SMG II in my E46 M3 is pretty damn fast. I don't know how drastic it could be.
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      10-12-2007, 06:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlgrau View Post
"Drastically" lowering shift times? I don't know, the SMG II in my E46 M3 is pretty damn fast. I don't know how drastic it could be.
See swamp's post above. If we estimate M-DCT to be appoximately like VAG's DSG, it will shift about 10 times as fast. At least in the ideal case. I would call that drastic.
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      11-07-2007, 09:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vantage View Post
Not sure about that. I've been on a track in an M5 with SMG....i LOVE the kick up your ass you get when you shift up!! It's absolutely brutal and I dont think much else could compare to it. Just wouldn't be the same if it was smooth shifted...
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      11-11-2007, 06:51 PM   #18
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Do you all really think the DCT or SMG will be available in Spring 2008? I haven't seen anything that would make me believe that this is an option.
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      11-12-2007, 12:48 AM   #19
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Do you all really think the DCT or SMG will be available in Spring 2008? I haven't seen anything that would make me believe that this is an option.
I am fairly convinced that M-DCT will make its pulic debut by spring 2008, very likely in Geneva, though it's always possible it could come sooner.

Will it then be available immediately or soon after? No idea. But I would certainly say by fall 2008 (for MY2009).
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      11-24-2007, 01:38 PM   #20
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DCT purchasing scenarios

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I am fairly convinced that M-DCT will make its pulic debut by spring 2008, very likely in Geneva, though it's always possible it could come sooner.

Will it then be available immediately or soon after? No idea. But I would certainly say by fall 2008 (for MY2009).
This is looking like a likely scenario. I get the feeling DCT cars will not be available until early summer--pure speculation based on the fact that we still have not heard a thing about it from BMW or seen spy pics of a car with a DCT lever. If DCT=>early summer, then I might wait for 2-3 more months and buy a 2009 model (I think, generally speaking, one can order next year's model in late August). If they can deliver DCT in Spring, and if #4 spot on the list lets me buy one then, I'll go for it.
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      11-24-2007, 06:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
This is looking like a likely scenario. I get the feeling DCT cars will not be available until early summer--pure speculation based on the fact that we still have not heard a thing about it from BMW or seen spy pics of a car with a DCT lever. If DCT=>early summer, then I might wait for 2-3 more months and buy a 2009 model (I think, generally speaking, one can order next year's model in late August). If they can deliver DCT in Spring, and if #4 spot on the list lets me buy one then, I'll go for it.
Good discussion here too bad the thread is "SMG..."

I am also concerned to not have seen a DCT spy shot yet. But I also have some reasoning to lead me to believe that this does not mean the system is delayed or won't be available until significantly after we suspect.

All of the hype with masked mules and the debut, in multiple countries is OVER. Getting an interior shot of the DCT in testing, although of interest to serious spy photographers or enthusiasts, just is not that big of a deal. Hence no spy shots. I do think that folks should have at least HEARD the system at the N'ring.

Don't think I could hold out to 09 myself...
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      11-24-2007, 06:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Good discussion here too bad the thread is "SMG..."

I am also concerned to not have seen a DCT spy shot yet. But I also have some reasoning to lead me to believe that this does not mean the system is delayed or won't be available until significantly after we suspect.

All of the hype with masked mules and the debut, in multiple countries is OVER. Getting an interior shot of the DCT in testing, although of interest to serious spy photographers or enthusiasts, just is not that big of a deal. Hence no spy shots. I do think that folks should have at least HEARD the system at the N'ring.

Don't think I could hold out to 09 myself...
True, people are not as curios as they were before. But one would have thought someone would have leaked something by now though.

That said, I am sure there are DCT cars running around. If you remember my other post on this, a German member spoke to a Getrag person who drove one and told him it is fantastic.

Actually, I guess technically speaking, nothing has been "delayed" since they never officially announced anything about DCT to begin with, right?
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