BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos
 
GT Haus
View Poll Results: Which engine is the best?
N54 19 25.33%
2JZ-GTE 50 66.67%
Other 6 8.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-16-2013, 06:35 PM   #23
b0bab0i
Captain
 
Drives: 03 TiAG z4 3.0i w/ hardtop
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SoCal

Posts: 964
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turb0mike View Post
No about what?



I never said it wasn't great but what are we comparing here? If we look at reliability and sheer power then 2JZ. If we are talking about mileage, weight (im taking a stab here), and overall technology than N54...

I have never seen a supra on a circuit... They are all dyno queens and straight line. Just not my cup of tea... maybe if someone puts a 2JZ in an e90 I might change my mind hahaha.

And I would have an S85 over a 2JZ any day of the week... That V10 and 2k redline though...
2JZ in an E92







http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649976
b0bab0i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-16-2013, 07:57 PM   #24
F32
Banned
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SF

Posts: 688
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
Why are you talking to me?
Just trying to see if you could put some substance behind a less-than-intelligent statement. That's all.
F32 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-16-2013, 08:05 PM   #25
yarviinn
Captain
 
yarviinn's Avatar
 
Drives: E9TT3
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA

Posts: 668
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to yarviinn
N54 will get you the females
2JZ will get you the males
yarviinn is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-16-2013, 08:09 PM   #26
yousefnjr
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posts: 551
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yarviinn View Post
N54 will get you the females
2JZ will get you the males
lol
yousefnjr is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-16-2013, 08:16 PM   #27
buildbright
Captain
 
buildbright's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i BMW F30 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tampa, FL

Posts: 907
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F32 View Post
Just trying to see if you could put some substance behind a less-than-intelligent statement. That's all.
Now let's try this again. Leave my name out of your quotes. I don't know you and I wish to keep it that way.
buildbright is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-17-2013, 04:50 PM   #28
turb0mike
First Lieutenant ///M killer
 
turb0mike's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 335i Racecar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 2,694
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 BMW 335i  [4.45]
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0bab0i View Post
I stand corrected, haha.
__________________

turb0mike is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-17-2013, 04:59 PM   #29
Jonjt
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 09 E92 335i M-sport
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 480
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yarviinn View Post
N54 will get you the females
2JZ will get you the males
Meh, my N54 has been a d**k magnet. I can't count how many "hey dood, buy my crap, it adds 34353542hp!" solicitations I've received. Ugh....
Jonjt is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-17-2013, 08:34 PM   #30
Rookie84
Private
 
Drives: '13 Chevy Caprice
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Seoul, Korea / Jeddah, KSA

Posts: 76
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turb0mike View Post
No about what?



I never said it wasn't great but what are we comparing here? If we look at reliability and sheer power then 2JZ. If we are talking about mileage, weight (im taking a stab here), and overall technology than N54...

I have never seen a supra on a circuit... They are all dyno queens and straight line. Just not my cup of tea... maybe if someone puts a 2JZ in an e90 I might change my mind hahaha.

And I would have an S85 over a 2JZ any day of the week... That V10 and 2k redline though...
I used to own a Supra and I wish I could own another one. As I no longer live in the states, it is hard for me to find a low mileage, pristine example.

Anyway, you comment you had never seen a Supra on a road course. Well, there are many owners who take their cars to HPDE events and Supras have won many time attact events and series including One Lap of America and many tuner shootout events until R35 GT-Rs started its domination.

You claiming to never seeing a Supra on a road course seems ignorant and shows you are not that active with road racing scene. Supras always get criticized for being dyno queens because high hp monsters usually take all the highlights. With stock twins or a small single turbo at around 500~600hp with fast spool, Supras make one hell of a road racer. How do I know? I have been there, done that, and have witnessed many great examples.
Rookie84 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 04:07 AM   #31
Levi
Brigadier General
 
Levi's Avatar
 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Germany

Posts: 3,207
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turb0mike View Post
You never see them on a road course, you only see them on the drag... and even then they don't put up good numbers because the powerband is all top end. With that being said I think the S85 is the best engine ever made... If that was paired in an e90 M3? zomg...
Ignorance!

Quote:
Originally Posted by turb0mike View Post
I have never seen a supra on a circuit... They are all dyno queens and straight line.

And I would have an S85 over a 2JZ any day of the week... That V10 and 2k redline though...
Ignorance!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie84 View Post
You claiming to never seeing a Supra on a road course seems ignorant and shows you are not that active with road racing scene.
1+















Need more?
Levi is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 08:26 AM   #32
danniexi
Colonel
 
danniexi's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 AW E92 335xi
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NJ

Posts: 2,049
iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Need more?
now you're just bringing classic porn into the discussion.

i'm curious as what the new S55 (F80 M3/4) engine will bring with its closed deck design.
danniexi is offline   South Korea
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 08:43 AM   #33
135Pats
Can't decide....
 
135Pats's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland

Posts: 5,373
iTrader: (1)

2JZ GTE is the stronger motor. Most statements beyond that come down to subjective preference regarding what you’re trying to accomplish with the platform. A fully closed deck iron short block, one of the beefiest cranks ever put in an OE car. It’s a dyno queen motor and the power curve sucks for real life driving…but it’s so beast.

N54s are no wall flowers though. For an open deck it’s shocking how much power they take on a completely stock block. We’ve cleared 700WHP on stock rods, pistons, crank, etc etc. That’s incredible for a high compression 3.0 Liter 6. And the ST power curve is still usable in the real world.
__________________
E88 FBO N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Meisterschaft Race/Berk Resonated/Macht Schnell 3"/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/FFTEC LPFP/HFS-4 DO Stainless Lines/BMS DCI/BMS Thermostat Delete/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/BMS OCC/PTF E50/ST Coilovers/M3 Front Control Arms + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/Macht Schnell Studs/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
135Pats is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 09:47 AM   #34
F32
Banned
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SF

Posts: 688
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
2JZ GTE is the stronger motor. Most statements beyond that come down to subjective preference regarding what youíre trying to accomplish with the platform. A fully closed deck iron short block, one of the beefiest cranks ever put in an OE car. Itís a dyno queen motor and the power curve sucks for real life drivingÖbut itís so beast.
Again...it's not a "dyno queen" motor. Stop looking only at the examples of the 1200+ RWHP ones which are obviously built for a specific purpose. Besides, "dyno queen" implies the cars make a ton of power but aren't fast. The fact is, up until a few years ago when AMS GTRs and UG Gallardos ruled the street, it was a handful of Supras which were among the fastest street-driven vehicles in the country. So many of them are 160+ MPH cars in the 1/4-mile with full interior, stock geometry suspension, stock transmissions, etc.

With a small single turbo, they can easily make 600 RWHP with all the drivability you can imagine. Keep the stock twins will full bolt-ons, and the car will still run with even the fastest, built N54 cars with a better TQ curve than stock.
F32 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 10:12 AM   #35
135Pats
Can't decide....
 
135Pats's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland

Posts: 5,373
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F32 View Post
Again...it's not a "dyno queen" motor. Stop looking only at the examples of the 1200+ RWHP ones which are obviously built for a specific purpose. Besides, "dyno queen" implies the cars make a ton of power but aren't fast. The fact is, up until a few years ago when AMS GTRs and UG Gallardos ruled the street, it was a handful of Supras which were among the fastest street-driven vehicles in the country. So many of them are 160+ MPH cars in the 1/4-mile with full interior, stock geometry suspension, stock transmissions, etc.

With a small single turbo, they can easily make 600 RWHP with all the drivability you can imagine. Keep the stock twins will full bolt-ons, and the car will still run with even the fastest, built N54 cars with a better TQ curve than stock.
Big turbo Supras struggle to make power down low, and canít keep traction up top on anything resembling a stock drivetrain and suspension. Dyno queen may have been a bit strong, but for daily driving a big power car, there are numerous options that are SO much more usable on the street. Iím on record as saying the 2JZ is one of the strongest and for its time most advanced motors ever produced, Iím not knocking it. Just my 2C, my experience with Supras is entirely anecdotal.

What type of power does a FBO stock twin Supra make? I have a tough time believing that would hang with a 6466 N54 from a dig or roll.
__________________
E88 FBO N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Meisterschaft Race/Berk Resonated/Macht Schnell 3"/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/FFTEC LPFP/HFS-4 DO Stainless Lines/BMS DCI/BMS Thermostat Delete/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/BMS OCC/PTF E50/ST Coilovers/M3 Front Control Arms + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/Macht Schnell Studs/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
135Pats is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 10:43 AM   #36
F32
Banned
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SF

Posts: 688
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
What type of power does a FBO stock twin Supra make? I have a tough time believing that would hang with a 6466 N54 from a dig or roll.
My knowedge is up to date as of 5 years ago, but upwards of 500 RWHP. I think the record is a hair above 550 RWHP but that was pushing it, of course. There were plenty which have run high-10s at high-120s on stock twins, so yes...that's more than enough to hang with any N54 car.

Again, this is current info as of ~2008 when I was in the scene. Haven't checked the latest...figures have likely been improved upon, but I don't think much effort and resources are put into pushing stock turbos when single turbo kits are out there for next to nothing.
F32 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 10:59 AM   #37
3002 tii
Major General
 
3002 tii's Avatar
 
Drives: flat out
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NNJ

Posts: 8,102
iTrader: (44)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by yarviinn View Post
N54 will get you the females
2JZ will get you the males
Using any car or motor to get you females is pathetic
__________________

Recaro | Volk | AST | Vorshlag | Quaife | Stoptech | Active Autowerke | BMW Performance

Click here for my track videos
3002 tii is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 11:08 AM   #38
135Pats
Can't decide....
 
135Pats's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland

Posts: 5,373
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F32 View Post
My knowedge is up to date as of 5 years ago, but upwards of 500 RWHP. I think the record is a hair above 550 RWHP but that was pushing it, of course. There were plenty which have run high-10s at high-120s on stock twins, so yes...that's more than enough to hang with any N54 car.

Again, this is current info as of ~2008 when I was in the scene. Haven't checked the latest...figures have likely been improved upon, but I don't think much effort and resources are put into pushing stock turbos when single turbo kits are out there for next to nothing.
If FBO can get you into 10s trapping high 120s on an otherwise stock Supra, then fair enough i'll concede my argument. That is extremely impressive. Where does the traction come from?
__________________
E88 FBO N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Meisterschaft Race/Berk Resonated/Macht Schnell 3"/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/FFTEC LPFP/HFS-4 DO Stainless Lines/BMS DCI/BMS Thermostat Delete/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/BMS OCC/PTF E50/ST Coilovers/M3 Front Control Arms + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/Macht Schnell Studs/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
135Pats is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 11:36 AM   #39
F32
Banned
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SF

Posts: 688
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
If FBO can get you into 10s trapping high 120s on an otherwise stock Supra, then fair enough i'll concede my argument. That is extremely impressive. Where does the traction come from?
Traction is not that big of a deal. Of course nothing will hook on 19" HREs with 30-profile street tires, especially with a powerband like a high-HP Supra. Even my Vette doesn't fully hook in second gear sometimes...which redlines above 90 MPH. Low-profile street radials simply can't hook that much power, so yes, there are Supras which will break traction at upwards of 140 MPH (there's a video or two on YouTube).

On proper suspension and tires (which doesn't require much), traction issues are mitigated. SW's Supra has gone 7.91 @ 189 MPH, and that's with the stock 6-speed trans, an upgraded LSD, HKS coilovers, and tires which fit without having to tub the car. It also happens to be the word's quickest manually-shifted car...
F32 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 03:29 PM   #40
turb0mike
First Lieutenant ///M killer
 
turb0mike's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 335i Racecar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 2,694
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 BMW 335i  [4.45]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie84 View Post
I used to own a Supra and I wish I could own another one. As I no longer live in the states, it is hard for me to find a low mileage, pristine example.

Anyway, you comment you had never seen a Supra on a road course. Well, there are many owners who take their cars to HPDE events and Supras have won many time attact events and series including One Lap of America and many tuner shootout events until R35 GT-Rs started its domination.

You claiming to never seeing a Supra on a road course seems ignorant and shows you are not that active with road racing scene. Supras always get criticized for being dyno queens because high hp monsters usually take all the highlights. With stock twins or a small single turbo at around 500~600hp with fast spool, Supras make one hell of a road racer. How do I know? I have been there, done that, and have witnessed many great examples.
Fair enough. I live here in the states and have never seen one on the track, and that is in SoCal, where the HPDE scene is heavy. I know about Tom's Supras and Castrols Supra etc etc so I'm not ignorant to the fact of their previous history in professional racing. So perhaps in Japan they are all that great but over here all I'm saying is you just don't see them on the track. Call it a culture difference.

And I still hold I like the S85 better... hah
__________________


Last edited by turb0mike; 10-18-2013 at 03:38 PM.
turb0mike is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 03:45 PM   #41
F32
Banned
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SF

Posts: 688
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turb0mike View Post
Fair enough. I live here in the states and have never seen one on the track, and that is in SoCal, where the HPDE scene is heavy. I know about Tom's Supras and Castrols Supra etc etc so I'm not ignorant to the fact of their previous history. So perhaps in Japan they are all that great but over here you just don't see them on the track. Call it a culture difference.
I HPDE regularly and have seen Supras every now and then, but no...they are not common. They are rare cars to begin with, let alone use to race. That's not to say they aren't capable, though. They are great on track and can be made to perform with the best of them. Look up Andi Baritchi and his One Lap of America Supra circa 2002-2003.

Most people, however, are rational and utilize/build on a car for its intended purpose. A Supra is a relatively heavier (for the 90s) GT car. You wont see many on a track, just like a 4-door 3-Series BMW is best suited for daily driving and grocery-getting duties, which is why you don't see many of those on a track either. People looking at 90s Japanese performance car for a weekend racer would look into an RX-7 or NSX well before a Supra.

Do you YouTube search for Ridox Supra if you wanna see what a badass street-driven Supra is capable of on a track.
F32 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-19-2013, 09:38 AM   #42
Rookie84
Private
 
Drives: '13 Chevy Caprice
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Seoul, Korea / Jeddah, KSA

Posts: 76
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turb0mike View Post
Fair enough. I live here in the states and have never seen one on the track, and that is in SoCal, where the HPDE scene is heavy. I know about Tom's Supras and Castrols Supra etc etc so I'm not ignorant to the fact of their previous history in professional racing. So perhaps in Japan they are all that great but over here all I'm saying is you just don't see them on the track. Call it a culture difference.

And I still hold I like the S85 better... hah
I guess Supras are getting rarer and rarer as it has been 20 years since they came to the market, and it's getting more difficult to find the owners taking them out on racing circuits nowadays. Like F32 has mentioned, it was a rare car to begin with, hence the reason why it is hard to see them on the track let alone on the streets.

Regarding drivability, people simply go way too big on the turbo size as the engine can pretty much take all you can throw at it. However, when setup with a small turbo around 500~600hp, the drivability is pretty good. If you wish to maintain stock drivability, you can get a upgraded set of stock turbos and put down over 500rwhp.

Anyway, I have to say that with modern technology, BMW's turbo I6's are more efficient and offer better drivability and efficiency. Still, I find it pretty amazing that 20 year old engine is still being mentioned and compared with the best of modern engines.

Damn I miss my Supra. Hopefully the new M4 will make me forget about my old Supra!!
Rookie84 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2013, 10:17 AM   #43
zain1003
New Member
 
Drives: Jet Black f10 535i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: United States

Posts: 27
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyc View Post
Why would you do this.


Im a jerk!!
zain1003 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-01-2013, 01:42 AM   #44
Kayani_1
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Kayani_1's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92/E60
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston

Posts: 1,551
iTrader: (1)

I would take the N54 for its instant response. The car never feels like a turbo. The torque is available from such a low rpm. You can get lots of power out of it for real cheap and the BMW inline-6 has classic sound track.
__________________
nick named "BAD 3"
Cobb tune, RennArt catback non resonated exhaust, M-sport steering (racing alcantara & retrofit M3 paddle shifters.), Alpina B3 transmission flash, AFE powered sealed CAI, LED angels, E93 M3 Front Swaybar, 235/35/19x9 front & 275/30/19x9.5 rear. When in doubt...flat out
Kayani_1 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:39 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST