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      09-02-2013, 09:41 AM   #1
gan1hck
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Swapping out track and street pads

I've had PFC 08 pads on my car now for over a year...have been too lazy to swap out between track days.

Finally decided to put street pads back on the car last month.

Anyways, I'm headed back to the track in a couple of weeks and was looking at my track pads when I realized that I never bothered to label where the pads were..... right pair vs left pair...etc.

So...does it matter?

Will I have issues if I put the pads back, but say the former left outboard is now on the right outboard and matched with original right inboard?

Maybe a stupid question, but my OCD mind has got me thinking.
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      09-02-2013, 09:47 AM   #2
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Not really a problem. If you can, drive them on the street first and do a few hard stops to ensure that the pad faces seat properly on the disc. If not, be cautious during the first few laps, again, until the pad face wear down where the properly sit on the disc.

FYI, track buddies of mine with Corvettes have tapered wear issues on their cars and they constantly rotate the pads around.
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      09-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #3
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Great!!!

Thanks for the info.
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      09-02-2013, 11:28 AM   #4
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Just re-bed them.
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      09-02-2013, 11:28 AM   #5
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How have the PFC 08s been on the street in terms of cold stop, noise, dust, pad and rotor wear, etc compared to actual street pads? I have a set that I'll use for the first time at the track and am tempted to go full-time if they're solid on the street in all those factors (currently running StopTech Street Performance), but on the other hand PFC 08s in ST60 fitment are $500/set....
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      09-02-2013, 12:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
How have the PFC 08s been on the street in terms of cold stop, noise, dust, pad and rotor wear, etc compared to actual street pads? I have a set that I'll use for the first time at the track and am tempted to go full-time if they're solid on the street in all those factors (currently running StopTech Street Performance), but on the other hand PFC 08s in ST60 fitment are $500/set....

noise was OK after bedding in., but definitely still there.
Dust was significant, and I made the mistake of not cleaning in the winter months.... one set of rims ruined.

Rotor life seems OK, but I have no frame of reference.
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      09-02-2013, 12:31 PM   #7
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^ Hmm, good to know about the dust issue. I've been avoiding Hawk race pads for a few reasons, one of which is that their dust is apparently corrosive, but if corrosive/hard dust is also a factor on the 08s, I'll definitely make sure to clean my rims shortly after track events. Thanks!
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      09-02-2013, 12:37 PM   #8
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pad life though is pretty good. 5 track days at Barber...total of 10 hours on track.. 600 track miles plus 5000 miles of street miles and only used up about 1/3 if the front pads.
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      09-02-2013, 12:37 PM   #9
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Hawk DTC-60 dust definitely makes a mess of your wheels - never again!

PFC-01's have been my go-to pad for most of the last ten years, but PFC raised their prices a lot recently, so I've switched to Pagid RS29's. They can be a bit noisy, but the dust isn't corrosive, they last a long time and they're easy to drive.
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      09-02-2013, 01:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
How have the PFC 08s been on the street in terms of cold stop, noise, dust, pad and rotor wear, etc compared to actual street pads? I have a set that I'll use for the first time at the track and am tempted to go full-time if they're solid on the street in all those factors (currently running StopTech Street Performance), but on the other hand PFC 08s in ST60 fitment are $500/set....
I've been running the PFC08s since early April when track season started for me. I intended to swap back between events, but with 7 track days since then I gave up almost immediately and kept them on out of laziness.

So, my 2 cents from street driving with them on:

Cold Stop - No issues (at least in the spring, summer months I've driven; with lows from 40s to highs of 90s); certainly the brakes get better as they get a little heat into them, but you will never notice a decrease in performance for street braking.

Noise - Louder than a semi; I get looks from everyone on the first stops of a drive. Yes, I know how to bed brake pads; no, bedding these in will never stop the squealing on your first cold stops. After getting a little heat into them (even just from road stops), they do get considerably quieter though.

Dust - More than stock or OEM-comparable pads, but if you're wash your car immediately after track events it should be no issue. If you wash your car weekly, you won't see any significant buildup on your wheels or paint (although--caveat--my daily drive does not include a significant amount of braking, so take that for what it's worth).

Pad Wear - Fantastic; lives up to its name as an endurance performance pad. I have 7 track days on them now and 6000 miles of driving (mainly highway admittedly), and I've only worn about 1/2 of the front pads. Rear pads are 1/3 or less.

Rotor Wear - Hard for me to gauge. My stock rotors are getting worn down, but this is certainly from the 7 track days. I'm sure they are much harder on the rotors for street driving than the stock or OEM-comparable pads, but--with all the tracking I do--I had planned on replacing the rotors as a result of my tracking long before any street abuse forced my hand.
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      09-02-2013, 02:42 PM   #11
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I really like the Pagid RS29, but could never handle them on the street. They are too twitchy and grab too hard in slow stop and go traffic. I swap back to the standard Stoptech pads in between track days. On the track though, I like the Pagids.
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      09-02-2013, 04:43 PM   #12
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Thanks Sapper_M3! In that case I doubt I'll use the 08s on the road. I think the noise alone would probably be enough to conquer any laziness. I do 6-8 track days per year but all of my events are 2-day events, so that plus the fact that I'll only be running the 08s on the front on the track (keeping the StopTech Street Performance pads in the rear) and the fact that the StopTech BBK makes it pretty easy to swap pads back and forth should motivate it. Appreciate the detailed response though!!
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      09-02-2013, 08:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Thanks Sapper_M3! In that case I doubt I'll use the 08s on the road. I think the noise alone would probably be enough to conquer any laziness. I do 6-8 track days per year but all of my events are 2-day events, so that plus the fact that I'll only be running the 08s on the front on the track (keeping the StopTech Street Performance pads in the rear) and the fact that the StopTech BBK makes it pretty easy to swap pads back and forth should motivate it. Appreciate the detailed response though!!
Performance Friction have modified their PF08 pads this year. Previously, they did not have the anti-rattle clips on the back plates. When I purchased a new set this spring, I was happily surprised that the clips were present. I am also wondering if the changed the compound somehow.

Last year, I could not bear the sound of the PF08 on the street. They rattled and squealed like hell. This year, because of the clips, no more rattle. Further, they barely squeal at all. I don't know if the clips reduced the squeal of if PF modified the compound. They are very liveable on the street and I don't bother swapping them anymore. The dust is not so bad and street rotor wear is perfectly acceptable. Cold grip is also perfectly fine for DD use.

You should try them out on the street before you start swapping.
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      09-02-2013, 11:39 PM   #14
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^ I'll be trying them out on the street regardless because I plan to install them a few days before my next HPDE to give them time to scrape off the pad deposits from my Street Performance pads and then keep them a few days afterward to scrape off their own deposits by running them cold. But if they squeal louder than a semi as Sapper_M3 mentioned, I don't think I'll want to keep them full-time. Even if they squeal only a little bit rather than being silent like the Street Performance pads, it probably won't be worth it to me. I have the ST60 caliper upfront where anti-rattle clips aren't even possible, and like I said above, a set of PFC 08s just for the front axle is $500, so even if they behaved identically to the Street Performance pads on the road, the cost alone would keep me from using them unnecessarily on the street. I enjoy being lazy as much as the next guy, but the Street Performance pads are only $125, so considering that running 08s full-time would provide no real improvement on the street and potentially come with a few drawbacks instead, I seriously doubt that my laziness will make that much of a cost difference worth it -- especially since swapping pads on the ST60 setup is so much easier than the OEM caliper.
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Last edited by jphughan; 09-02-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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      09-03-2013, 02:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
^ I'll be trying them out on the street regardless because I plan to install them a few days before my next HPDE to give them time to scrape off the pad deposits from my Street Performance pads and then keep them a few days afterward to scrape off their own deposits by running them cold. But if they squeal louder than a semi as Sapper_M3 mentioned, I don't think I'll want to keep them full-time. Even if they squeal only a little bit rather than being silent like the Street Performance pads, it probably won't be worth it to me. I have the ST60 caliper upfront where anti-rattle clips aren't even possible, and like I said above, a set of PFC 08s just for the front axle is $500, so even if they behaved identically to the Street Performance pads on the road, the cost alone would keep me from using them unnecessarily on the street. I enjoy being lazy as much as the next guy, but the Street Performance pads are only $125, so considering that running 08s full-time would provide no real improvement on the street and potentially come with a few drawbacks instead, I seriously doubt that my laziness will make that much of a cost difference worth it -- especially since swapping pads on the ST60 setup is so much easier than the OEM caliper.
OK gotcha

Probably the addition of the anti rattle clips is a big contributor in reducing the squeal.
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      09-03-2013, 11:27 PM   #16
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I dont think anti rattle clips have anything to do with squealing do they? Its the material. Track pad on metal dont sound great. Even if you bed them, the bed just gets scraped off. How often do you want to bed them in? I am dreading the fact i have two track weekends coming up (two weeks apart) those two weeks are going to be hell (but funny as heck watching others reactions).
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      09-04-2013, 09:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
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I dont think anti rattle clips have anything to do with squealing do they? Its the material. Track pad on metal dont sound great. Even if you bed them, the bed just gets scraped off. How often do you want to bed them in? I am dreading the fact i have two track weekends coming up (two weeks apart) those two weeks are going to be hell (but funny as heck watching others reactions).
Agreed, I also think that PF somehow changed the compound of their PF08 pads becasue the squealing is so much reduced compared to last year.

But the clips could also have an impact. Usually, squealing is caused by the pads vibrating at a high frequency against the calipers and piston. It is that high frequency vibration that causes the squeal. The anit-rattle clips could help in dampening that vibration.

I have no evidence that PF changed the compound, but the addition of the anti-rattle clips is a certainty .
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      09-04-2013, 10:33 AM   #18
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Agreed, I also think that PF somehow changed the compound of their PF08 pads becasue the squealing is so much reduced compared to last year.

But the clips could also have an impact. Usually, squealing is caused by the pads vibrating at a high frequency against the calipers and piston. It is that high frequency vibration that causes the squeal. The anit-rattle clips could help in dampening that vibration.

I have no evidence that PF changed the compound, but the addition of the anti-rattle clips is a certainty .
I do enjoy the new anti-rattle clips. The rattling was very annoying on the street.

As for the squealing, when new, they were loud, but once bedded in, I thought they were fairly quiet...both old and new sets.
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      09-04-2013, 05:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I dont think anti rattle clips have anything to do with squealing do they? Its the material. Track pad on metal dont sound great. Even if you bed them, the bed just gets scraped off. How often do you want to bed them in? I am dreading the fact i have two track weekends coming up (two weeks apart) those two weeks are going to be hell (but funny as heck watching others reactions).
The anti rattle clips have no effect on the amount of squealing. I've removed the clips on the piston side pads to fit my Ti shims and the clips on the outboard side are now so loose they barely hold the pad in place. PFC-08 pad squeal is nonetheless much less than with PFC-01 or 06 pads.

However, I think the next time I replace these pads I will cut a slot in the shims so that I can still use the anti rattle clips. The knocking noise the pads make on the street at anything less than highway speeds just bothers the heck out of me.
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      09-04-2013, 06:01 PM   #20
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best case scenario - street pads for street / track pads for track.

should be less than 10 minutes on each side....try to get it down to 5 mins or less per side!
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      09-04-2013, 06:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
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best case scenario - street pads for street / track pads for track.

should be less than 10 minutes on each side....try to get it down to 5 mins or less per side!
that's pretty fast...although what takes me the longest is to get the car off the ground onto jack stands.
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      09-04-2013, 06:13 PM   #22
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^ Where do you put jack stands in the front? I've seen threads about this but never a good answer. I just the forward side jack point for the jack (can't reach the front center one) and thus far since I'm never under the car I just pull the wheels off while the car is supported by the jack and do them one at a time, but I'd like to use the jack stands for extra safety and damage avoidance. Fwiw, the jack stands I have are the OTC 1582, not a traditional top shape apparently.
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